Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Thank you for sharing.
I wonder how many helmets are in one package ("1 paket").
Maybe just one helmet with support and training equipment for evaluation?
Indonesian Aero News
- Thread starter Ananda
- Start date
I wonder how many helmets are in one package ("1 paket").
Maybe just one helmet with support and training equipment for evaluation?
Ananda
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #2,702
www.facebook.com
Put images from Keris FB that seems taking from on line presentation from MinDef on TNI procurement within this period.
I put the link on TNI-AU procurement which being devide in to three financing originations categories:
- Using Indonesian Currency from State budget. This indicating payment in cash.
- Using Foreign Institution Credit line,
- Using Domestic Institution Credit line.
I put this to shown why there's three separation on source of payment. The table can shown those consider as small items usually paid by cash from annual budget. Those big items however source mostly from local sources/producers use Domestic credit line. While those big items source overseas use Foreign credit line.
Sometimes I see local public question on defense procurement using credit line. Something that much of public did not realize this is already been done back even to Soekarno's era. Thus back in time of early Republic era.
Last edited:
Ananda
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #2,703
First Flight Alert! A new era of F-16 begins. Meet the Block 70 Fighting Falcon. ✅ 6 countries and counting ✅ Built on 40+ years of proven legacy... | By Lockheed Martin | Facebook
First Flight Alert! A new era of F-16 begins. Meet the Block 70 Fighting Falcon. ✅ 6 countries and counting ✅ Built on 40+ years of proven legacy...
fb.watch
From LM FB page on the first flight of F-16 block 70. I know I should put it on either USAF thread or at least International Fighter thread. However I put it here more on personal reasons
.I do have personal wish for Indonesian MinDef to 'get real' on operational budgetary sustainment. Thus abandoned F-15ID/EX effort and back to F-16 block 70. The talk of only upgrading existing C/D toward V standard not efficient enough, if they still insist on pursuing F-15ID//EX.
It depends on how soon TNI-AU needs those jets.From LM FB page on the first flight of F-16 block 70. I know I should put it on either USAF thread or at least International Fighter thread. However I put it here more on personal reasons
I do have personal wish for Indonesian MinDef to 'get real' on operational budgetary sustainment. Thus abandoned F-15ID/EX effort and back to F-16 block 70. The talk of only upgrading existing C/D toward V standard not efficient enough, if they still insist on pursuing F-15ID//EX.
While there are acknowledged operational and maintenance reasons to select the BLK70, the current queue (>149?) means delivery will be post 2026, at least. More realistically, Indonesia will be looking at 2027/28 with in-service dates closer to 2030.
Bahrain (16): from 2024 link
Slovakia (14): from 2024 link
Bulgaria (8 + 8): from 2025/2026 link
Taiwan (66): from 2026 link
Unknown (24): ??
Jordan (8 + 4 + 12): ?? link
If TNI is willing to accept that sort of timeline (late 2020s) for F-16s, then the other question will be, why not other platforms? More Rafales might be faster. KF-21 would likely be in-service around that period as well.
Last edited:
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
I expect the production of the KF-21 will start slowly after 2026, if the development is finished that year. So there is a chance that Lockheed-Martin can deliver new F-16V Block 70s before KAI has produced all the KF-21s for South-Korea.
But yes, another option is to order more Rafales. Anyway i hope that TNI-AU can get their 23 F-16C/Ds to Block 70 standard in the future.
But yes, another option is to order more Rafales. Anyway i hope that TNI-AU can get their 23 F-16C/Ds to Block 70 standard in the future.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #2,706
Rafale with latest export orders also has Queue on delivery. Personally I already put in this thread on preference for more Rafale, simply because they already order some batches. However it's also in Queue.
From rumours, US offer Indonesia part of their batch production of F-15EX as F-15ID. If this's true, thus F-15ID can be faster to get. However my concern more on operational sustainment budget. Just like operating Gas Turbines Frigates, question always be can TNI efficiently operating heavy fighters like F-15 on their operational budget.
There's enough leaks including some from Defense University studies shown TNI-AU have difficulty operating their current Heavy Fighters/Flankers. Will they're going to cope on operating F-15 ?
Rafale it self will be cost higher then F-16 to operate. However seems not going to costs as much as Flankers and F-15. It's questions on operational sustainment capabilities.
But operational sustainment never comes as number one consideration in Indonesia defence procurement. I am curious and want your take; how much does timeline / schedule figure into the Indonesia considerations, other than budget, politics? Is TNI-AU in need for more planes or replacement? Where does it sit in the ORBAT?
Ananda
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #2,708
Yes, that's why I say in my posts, putting F-16 Blk 70 as my hope.
My assessment 50:50. They need fasts but also there's Political play out (both local and geopolitical consideration). This is why they put "interim" fighters budget which being thought going to 12 ex Qatar Mirage 2K. Now again 'rumours' being hold by Frenchie. Seems if it is true Frenchie wants the budget being allocated perhaps toward some 2nd hand Rafale.
The budget being prepared around USD 700-800 mio. If this's enough for 6 second hand Rafale, then it is better then 12 second hand Mirage 2K (even tough ex Qatar ones being talk in very good condition and relative low flying hours for their age).
Current TNI-AU Fighters ORBAT is 8 sq their plan is 11 sq. From 8 sq at least 1 sq already defunct (F-5) and another 3 sq (Flankers and Hawk 200) seems need to be replaced by end of this decades (as no plan to upgrade them like the F-16). Thus they need to replace 4 sq plus add another 3.
Latest TNI-AU presentation shown future with F-15, F-16, Rafale and KF-21. As for me as by stander enthusiast, just hope they drop F-15 and focus on Rafale, F-16 and KF-21. KF-21 despite still troublesome funding on Investment (of production license facilities) and RnD dues, seems still got Political support to continue.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
This Bombardier Globaleye from al-Quwwāt al-Jawiyah wa al-Defa' al-Jawiy al-ʾImārāt/ UAE AF seems to visit Lanud Suryadharma in Kalijati.
Currently the UAEAF operates 3 GlobalEye aircraft with an additional 2 on order scheduled for delivery in 2025, so maybe this is a delivery flight.
A large part of our armed forces are still equipped with old and obsolete weaponsystems, but thanks God the headquarters can still get these luxurious and expensive cars.
I understand that the top officers need armoured cars, but i have the feeling that these cars are not armoured and only bought because of comfort and prestige.
I also understand that high ranking officers and politicians deserve comfort, but a Toyota Camry or Fortuner, Honda Civic or Mazda CX-8 is more than enough.
Currently the UAEAF operates 3 GlobalEye aircraft with an additional 2 on order scheduled for delivery in 2025, so maybe this is a delivery flight.
A large part of our armed forces are still equipped with old and obsolete weaponsystems, but thanks God the headquarters can still get these luxurious and expensive cars.
I understand that the top officers need armoured cars, but i have the feeling that these cars are not armoured and only bought because of comfort and prestige.
I also understand that high ranking officers and politicians deserve comfort, but a Toyota Camry or Fortuner, Honda Civic or Mazda CX-8 is more than enough.
Last edited:
Ananda
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #2,710
If we see how the brass life style (whether Military or Police) during Soeharto's era and this reformation/democracy era, is actually they are more showings off their benefits now compare then. I some times 'laugh' when reading social media or forums from those 'milenials' blaming on Soeharto's era corruption, when now actually it is more blatant.
See the cars for MinDef, Fortuner usually goes to echelon 2 level (those directors below), and those GLS and Crown goes to echelon 1 (Director General) level which in truth most are those with Stars. Not much different in all three TNI branches or Police where the Stars got either Rubicon Wrangler or Land Cruiser. Fortuner is actually still acceptable, question will goes on those being used by the stars.
Some argue that as those for official Military use, then the cars don't pay VAT and License tax as much for civilian use. Thus those cars should not have same prices as those in market. I have to check it again with my Tax colleagues, as yes before Military assets not pay tax like civilian ones. Still it shows how High Ranking officers and High level bureaucracy shown actually less sensitivity toward their life style, more then Soeharto's era.
Corruption create High Costs economy. However for emerging markets economies let alone the developing ones it is the undeniable truth some level of corruption will happen to accommodate economics transaction. Even US that so call 'democratic' value champions, level of corruption still happening. It is just being 'legally' construct on better regulated package.
So how to regulate and packages those perks and side payments on any government "projects" actually the game on any bureaucracy. More advanced bureaucracy and more regulated those practices are. I have talk with many colleagues from OECD desks, and they all say the difference on corruption between emerging markets and OECD's is how they're 'package' the 'games' on the projects.
I'm not going to elaborate much on how more advanced bureaucracy package their 'projects', however there are always some leeway can be done to have that, but still acceptable from auditor office point of view.
That's the main point actually, how to make it any projects still acceptable from auditors. In case of Indonesia, as long as those cars can still be acceptable of procurement and valuation assessment toward Budget allocation process by BPK (Government Auditors), then it is still acceptable. Whether it is shown enough sensitivity toward public, that's another question.
Last edited:
Ananda
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #2,711
@Sandhi Yudha haven't found confirmation on that UAE globaleye stop over in Kalijati AB. Usually this's something that goes around in local forums.
Anyway seems SAAB got 'lead' advantage on negotiation for AEW&C with MinDef. If not, salesman like Twitter Guy will not tweet with quite confidence as now. Perhaps that stop over related to this ?
I know in the future we'll have more Datalink capable aircraft like the Rafale, but right now, don't we only have 4 F-16eMLU that have their datalink 16 installed? I got the feeling that the PSP request for it will be denied this time by the Finance Ministry.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
I thought the AH-64E also has Datalink 16, and weren't the 23 F-16C/D also equipped with Datalink 16?
Anyway our new C-130J-30s will also get it.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #2,714
Like I said several times already, if all projects being pursue, something must give. The budget simply too much above previous assessment of +/- USD 21bio credit line that's being prepared by Bapenas in beginning of this term.
That's why I hope this F-15ID being ditched, as it will give room for others (not yet finance) projects, including FREMM, F-16C/D upgrade (toward blk 70), AEW&C and support inventories especially on missiles. Ditching F-15ID also give room to for financing payment dues on KF-21 and building assembly and parts manufacturing in DI facilities.
Without F-15ID, TNI-AU can focus on Rafale, Upgrade F-16 toward Blk 70 (or even add some new build). This with AEW&C assets and enough modern Ground Sensors can provide relative comparable integrate network centric in the region. It is better then wasting limited budget for F-15ID.
Like I said couple years back, has to choose either one between Rafale or F-15. Taking both not only too much on procurement budget, also base on TNI-AU historical operating budget, simply unaffordable to operate effectively.
That's why I hope this F-15ID being ditched, as it will give room for others (not yet finance) projects, including FREMM, F-16C/D upgrade (toward blk 70), AEW&C and support inventories especially on missiles. Ditching F-15ID also give room to for financing payment dues on KF-21 and building assembly and parts manufacturing in DI facilities.
Without F-15ID, TNI-AU can focus on Rafale, Upgrade F-16 toward Blk 70 (or even add some new build). This with AEW&C assets and enough modern Ground Sensors can provide relative comparable integrate network centric in the region. It is better then wasting limited budget for F-15ID.
Like I said couple years back, has to choose either one between Rafale or F-15. Taking both not only too much on procurement budget, also base on TNI-AU historical operating budget, simply unaffordable to operate effectively.
Last edited:
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Two Hawk squadrons, two F-16 squadrons, one Sukhoi squadron, one T-50 squadron....
SkU 14 is without aircrafts and the EMB-314 is not a fighter (yes maybe 70 years ago, but not to modern standard) so we have actually only 6 operational squadrons.
I agree, but i think its better to wait with the FREMM and focus first on the Iver Huitfeldts/Arrowhead 140.
And we also need more NASAMS.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #2,716
Kemenhan Sebut TNI Beli <em>Drone</em> Bayraktar TB2 dan Anka dari Turki |Republika Online
Nantinya, PT DI akan memproduksi drone bersama Baykar dan TAI di hangar Kota Bandung.
www.republika.co.id
Indonesia seeks foreign lenders for UCAV programmes
The Indonesian Ministry of Finance (MoF) has approved a request from the Indonesian Armed Forces (TNI) to procure unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAVs) with foreign...
www.janes.com
The two article related. After Jane's put article that Indonesian MoF agree for Foreign Credit line allocation for UAV. Republika article confirm from MinDef source that the UAV will be source from Turkiye.
Bayraktar TB2 and TAI Anka will not only acquire, but according to MinDef source will also involve DI as part of domestication production chain. In short seems with Indigenous MALE UAV program Black Eagle stagnate (due to some stupidity Political move bureaucracy of State RnD agency BRIN), DI now choose to take on licensing from Turkiye instead.
Quite different approach fron previous term MinDef that choose silent operation when procuring Chinese MALE UCAV CT-4. The movement toward Turkiye UAV is already been seen since last Indodefence. However this shown Indonesia officialy choose Turkiye as partner on development of UAV program.
About that, a BRIN acquintance of mine said that part of the reason why Black Eagle transitioned to a civilian project is to get around ITAR restriction regarding its technology. It's still going, but the project has nothing to do with the military now.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #2,718
I used to believe that, as several months ago I also put that BRIN decision to take put the project from Military applications is to get around ISTAR partnership potential. Making it civilians make it more 'in theory' easier to find potential tech sources.
However further talk and hearing some sources, shown that's not how actually works. Everyone knows ISTAR tech is dual used. Any tech for civilian UAV is easily use for military specs UAV. So any tech partner being choose will also knows that. This is has to much smell on matter of political turf.
We knows whose control BRIN now, and we also knows they will not share their turf for other projects that control by potential Political rival in next elections. They may be now in same administration, but they're know well next election calculations can be different. This is why I said 'stupid' political bureaucracy play in hand.
MinDef now try to develop UAV with Turkiye as tech partner. Let's see how the other political faction that control BRIN now, find their own potential tech partner (if they can).
Most Philippine defense blogs reported that their Department of National Budget and Management have released the initial amount (15%) for the Philippine Air Force Light Lift Aircraft Acquisition program. This would be for 6 additional NC-212i to replace their 5 x N-22 "Nomad".
The SARO release usually means the signed contract is not too far away, since funding is now available.
The SARO release usually means the signed contract is not too far away, since funding is now available.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing.
This is what our navy also has to do, replacing those old worn out crap N22 Nomads by NC212 or N219.