Indonesia: 'green water navy'

IMG-20230222-WA0002.jpg

First MCMV vessel from Abeking-Rasmussen yard continue the trials. Photo from Keris FB pages.

Direktorat Jenderal Potensi Pertahanan Kemhan RI

www.kemhan.go.id www.kemhan.go.id

MinDef Defense Potential Directorate General visit Abeking-Rasmussen yard on the OffSet agreement implementation. The off set basically provide tech to potentially license MCMV indigenous development.

On Frigates development program, Twitter Guy ranting on his latest tweet there's problem on Arrowhead 140 implementation. Not first time he is ranting on that. Just another rumours and marketing twists that circulate within Indonesian defense programs.
 
Last edited:

IDEX 2023: UAE confirms order for PT PAL landing platform dock

The United Arab Emirates (UAE) announced it had awarded the Indonesian shipyard PT PAL an AED1.5 billion (USD408.32 million) contract to supply a “multimission vessel”...
www.janes.com

Even tough this is UAE order, but I put in this thread more on thinking how PAL facilities can cope with all the order. Philippines Navy LPD, Indonesian Navy Frigates (arrowhead 140), and now this UAE LPD.

This LPD will be the biggest design that PAL work on. They should begin to outsource some of their work to other Yards.
 
Last edited:
Ananda said:

IDEX 2023: UAE confirms order for PT PAL landing platform dock

The United Arab Emirates (UAE) announced it had awarded the Indonesian shipyard PT PAL an AED1.5 billion (USD408.32 million) contract to supply a “multimission vessel”...
www.janes.com

Even tough this is UAE order, but I put in this thread more on thinking how PINDAD facilities can cope with all the order. Philippines Navy LPD, Indonesian Navy Frigates (arrowhead 140), and now this UAE LPD.

This LPD will be the biggest design that PAL work on. They should begin to outsource some of their work to other Yards.
Click to expand...
....you probably mean PAL facilities.....

But its nice that PAL at last can construct their 163 m LPD design. When the UAE ordered the CN235 in the '90s it was also the largest foreign CN235-order for many years.
 
Thanks, just change the Typo. Seems PAL will construct the Vessels, while UAE company will conduct system integration. The experience not only on construction for PAL, but more on automation. They haven't experienced much on that area, since Indonesian and Philippines LPD not build with extensive automation. UAE seems aim on that.

That's why UAE will use their company on system integration including automation. I guess the UAE company will work with some 'partners/consultants' on doing that. They have enough capital to attract best 'consultant' on the job.
 

From Bakamla FB, on Bakamla meeting with JICA (Japan International Cooperation Agency), on potential grant of Coast Guard OPV from Japan to Bakamla. The talk on 80m Patrol Boat/OPV, which bit sad for personally.

Previous admin finance 4 OPV of 110m and 85m to Bakamla. Now not only no new OPV for Bakamla, they have to wait grant from other country. This is shown how Bakamla/Coast Guard despite all the talk on current administration to support them, simply being passed away from significant new investment.

Not that I complained on new investment being given for Navy, but they should also put some investment to strengthen Bakamla operation. After all this is in line with their own talk on strengthening this "civilian" Maritime Constabulary. US grant help Bakamla on new training center in Batam, now Japan going to help with additional patrol boat. Are Indonesian Coast Guard investment going to depend on 'grants' from US and Japan?

All this make me wondering if no substantial investment given to the 'coast guard' due to old rivalry on maritime jurisdiction.
 
fb.watch

Navy News - LATIHAN BERSAMA KAPAL PERANG TNI AL DAN JEPANG | Navy News - Edisi Senin, 27 Februari 2023 1. LATIHAN BERSAMA KAPAL PERANG TNI AL DAN JEPANG Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force 2. KRI FKO-368 MENJADI... | By TNI Angkatan Laut | Facebook

Navy News - Edisi Senin, 27 Februari 2023 1. LATIHAN BERSAMA KAPAL PERANG TNI AL DAN JEPANG Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force 2. KRI FKO-368 MENJADI...
fb.watch fb.watch

This is TNI-AL official video on that PASSEX with JMSDF, that Sandhi put. From 0:55 - 2:30.
 
IMG-20230301-WA0002.jpg

This is already circulated for few days on Indonesian enthusiasts forums. Someone put in FB photo on PAL booth in IMDEX at Abu Dhabi. In there PAL put design on 88m Corvette.

Fincantieri | Patrol Vessels

Fincantieri Patrol Vessels: Offering a wide range of OPVs and IPVs. Reliable solutions for coastal surveillance, border control, and maritime security.
www.fincantieri.com www.fincantieri.com

If we see the design on that corvette shown similarities with Fincantieri Comandante Cigala class Corvette. This design also that Fincantieri put toward PAL on National Corvette program (Kornas) in early SBY era. This design then beaten by Damen SIGMA.

Now we see before on post# Noahtu/DRU OPV/Corvette which shown similarities with Damen design, and PAL Corvette that shown similarities with Fincantieri. On one hand it is good that Indonesian yards use proven design from Big players. On other hand it is also shown Indonesian yards weaknesses on building with their own design.

Despite some insistence from Noahtu and PAL that those are their design, the similarities with Damen and Fincantieri in my opinion shown strong indication that they already make back deal agreement with those two Euro Yards.
 
www.cnbcindonesia.com

Tantangan Program Kapal Perang Fregat Arrowhead 140 Indonesia

Kementerian Keuangan telah menyetujui Pinjaman Luar Negeri US$ 1,1 miliar untuk membiayai akuisisi dua fregat Arrowhead 140 yang didesain Babcock, Inggris.
www.cnbcindonesia.com www.cnbcindonesia.com

I can't help to comment on the article the tweeter guy put in CNBC Indonesia. Somehow some media think highly on him as defense industry "experts". Well he's defense salesman, this can make him defense 'insiders' but that's not making him the "expert" as some in Indonesian media think.

For one thing his comment on switch the Indonesian Arrowhead 140 construction from PAL to give it back to Babcock, clearly shown his intention bias as Euro OEM salesman. Do he has clear evidence that PAL unable to conduct construction job for Indonesian Arrowhead 140? Or just some ranting because at this moment seems PAL close mouth on the construction progress development.

Also the government prepared USD 1.1 bio for both Arrowhead 140 in PAL contract. This even tweeter guy admits this is combine original budget from 2017 (which being talked before of USD 750 Mio) and additional from 2023. Thus despite all his ranting in the article, the number is quite within acceptable range. Especially if turn out, 2017 allocation is for building two operational hulls while 2023 additional allocation is for weapons systems.

So there's not yet enough evidence PAL screw up Arrowhead 140 construction job yet, as he's indicating. Can't help to comment as this guy more and more shown his true self just another Euro OEM salesman.
 
www.kompas.id

Produsen Kapal Selam Scorpene Rangkul Perusahaan Indonesia

Perusahaan-perusahaan Perancis membuka kemungkinan kerja sama dengan perusahaan Indonesia. Hal ini perlu dimanfaatkan semaksimal mungkin.
www.kompas.id www.kompas.id

Naval Group conducting further talk with DefendID as Indonesian Defence Holding company and PAL shipyard (as now Subsidiaries from DefendID) for effort on finalising deal on Joint Production of 2 Scorpene Sub. This as 2nd batch of DSME 209 seems getting bogged down due to 'unsatisfactory' assesment toward PAL and DSME joint productions venture in 1st batch.

Many believe this 2 scorpene will be the 1st batch of at least 2 batch of 4 scorpene. Still NG knows how sensitive politically submarine localisation in Indonesia, they are willing to give similar production joint venture like in Brazil and India.

DSME still fight for 2nd batch and 3rd player (HDW) playing more low key lobbies. So far indication NG will got a deal on Submarine joint production, question will remain how far adjustments that PAL submarine facilities (which buold before for DSME 209 class type) need to be adjusted for Scorpene production.

Some in Indonesian forums still think adjusting from 209 production toward Scorpene is an easy thing to do. Well lets see how easy PAL going to adjust their submarine facilities from 209 to scorpene.
 

Xavier interview with PAL CEO Janod in Abu Dhabi. Bit couple weeks old, but just being upload on Naval News sites. I put this as this interview talk about:
1. Scorpene deal,
2. Arrowhead construction progress,
3. Philippines LPD,
4. PAL Underwater Drones.

It is quite interesting that PAL choose not to talk to any Indonesian media, and choose to talk to international media that specialize on Naval Industry. However talking to mainstream media can be Toxic, and can open to wild speculation. We can see what happens now with open and wild speculation on Australian nuclear sub by so call mainstream media.

Especially #2 which now being speculated much by Indonesian enthusiasts and media. Some so call defense 'insiders' already hinting the project as PAL debacle and talk on the project should be taken over by Babcock.

Now I don't say the PAL is shining example on Indonesian naval yards. In fact I already put in this thread as financial people, I have seen and involved in financing better Indonesian private sector yards than this SOE yard. However it is not also be put that PAL already incapable or done debacle on Arrowhead 140 project.

Just let see what their progress on the projects first, before judge them incapable or doing debacle on any of their publicist projects.
 

TNI ANGKATAN LAUT

www.tnial.mil.id www.tnial.mil.id

As part of mission Jeanne D'Arc, French Mistral class LHD Dixmude and it's escort Lafayette of the namesake class Frigate, visit Jakarta since last week. By end of their visit at 30th, they conduct joint exercise with TNI-AL Corvette and Patrol Boats. Seems those two TNI-AL ships taking opportunity conduct exercise, while escort them sail past Indonesian water.

During their stay in Jakarta Tanjung Priok Naval Base, Dixmude hosting French MIC delegations presentation session. Presentation photo got from Semar Sentinel sites, this is the company where Tweeter Salesman belong to.

FsTpr_eaUAATZYI.jpegFsTpsYaaQAIyyw2.jpeg

One presentation that got much attention on Indonesian enthusiasts is PAL roadmap for Submarine. PAL team up with NG on submarine presentation, shown even though no official selection on next batch of submarine project, NG already got support from PAL.

PAL presentor even say in media there's more beneficial package for tech transfer that NG offer compare to what DAME offer before. NG claim that there'll be minimum cost needed to modified PAL facilities and tools(that tune for 209/DSME 209) for Scorpene. Seems the presentation shown NG offering similar deal and specs with Brazilian ones to Indonesia.

However one thing to consider, DSME is USD 1bio+ for three submarine, while this one being rumours of USD 1bio for one submarine. Off course Brazilian Riachuaelo based Scorpene is more capable SSK then DSME 209. However is it have same capability for two or even three DSME 209 ? Something to consider upon, in my opinion.
 
nasional.kompas.com

Panglima TNI Ungkap Alasan 2 Kapal Fregat untuk Perkuat TNI AL Baru Jadi pada 2025 atau 2026

Panglima TNI Yudo Margono menjelaskan soal 2 kapal fregat desain Babcock Inggris kenapa baru akan jadi pada 2025 atau 2026
nasional.kompas.com nasional.kompas.com

Few days old, but this is official talk on the progress of Indonesian Arrowhead 140 progress. TNI Chief of Staff Admiral Margono say that the 2 Freeway of Arrowhead design will be launch by 2025 and 2026.

This in similar time that the 'tweeter' sales guy talk in media and his you tube video (base on his reliable source rumours), that PAL and Babcock has 'bit' of dispute on license payment. This resulted the some of finish drawing being held by Babcock. Potentially resulting on construction delay.

However I also got rumours from state enterprise sources that saying that some twist in negotiations still happening between PAL and Babcock on IP ownership. PAL want to have part IP ownership on the design, as argue the Indonesian arrowhead 140 is modification design on existing Babcock arrowhead 140. For starter Babcock has 138+m and what PAL working on has 140+m.

In such PAL wants to have IP rights just as they have with Korean Daesun when developing Makasar class LPD. This will give PAL flexibility to develop their own version later on.

So whose rumours is right ? well let's see how this developed. Still TNI seems so far quite sure they can get those two Frigates by 25/26 timeline.
 

This's TNI-AL official video on the crew live on the KRI Alugoro. One in fact the last boat of DSME 209 1400 for TNI-AL. This is just TNI-AL video shown on crew live during Ramadhan.

However I've put it in here, cause until now despite talks on problem with those DSME 1400, which in media being circulates by Euro OEM 'sales guys' and other so call Defense Industry 'insiders', no official explanation what is the extend of real problem of this boat.

Most of 'rumours' running around is the problem with battery electrical storage capacities. Make the Submarine underwater endurance are not as long as originally anticipate. However this boat eventough taking base on DSME ROKN 209 that already operated with ROKN for decades, it is also has bespoke specifications for Indonesian Navy requirements.

In short they are shown capable doing their patrol jobs, and so far not shown as 'handicapped" submarine that some defense 'insiders' aka salesmen tried to potrait. So personally i think why MinDef wants to switch for next batch of Submarine with either NG or TKMS submarine, more to desire for getting next submarine with upgrade capability from those DSME 1400.

Yes seems those DSME 1400 need some modifications work on their electrical storage problem, in order to bring up their underwater endurance up to desire time length. So this condescending campaign by Euro OEM salesguys toward Korean submarine, nothing more to get some public justification for more money on Euro submarine.
 
As I have put in this thread and TNI-AU ones, if they goes ahead with Rafale (which they already did) and still try to find fiscal room for US fighters like F-15EX or even F-16V, something must give. Remember previous plan for overall overseas procurement financing line was around USD 21 Bio for this 2020-24 term.

This from what I heard from my Bapenas friend is not changing much, and if some adjustments happening will +/- USD 2.0 bio. Because it is the available room for defense overseas procurement financing budget. Those line supposedly divided USD 8+ bio each for AF and Navy and around USD 4+ bio for Army. Now those 42 Rafale package reported costs around USD 7-8 bio, and if they still want to add more fighter program on this term, then Navy or Army portion must give in.

Either way it is doubtful they can afford foreign credit line for defense procurement, more than USD 21-23 bio range on this term. Lower than that range even possible. So if they want to build more on Air Asset this term, then Navy and Army must sacrifice some of the program. Considering Army has more political clout, then personally I do see Navy program that being sacrifice.

This is why I suspect MinDef goes ahead with refurbishment program for existing Ships (41 the last count). If they want to go with further batches of Submarine, then new Frigates program has to be cut. This includes potential change supplier from Euro to ones in Asia that can give more economical packages.

So let's see which ones going to be sacrifice, as they have to give out some of the program anyway on this term. Simply not enough budget to get over all procurement plan as being talk before. Personally assides those two Arrowhead 140, I do suspect additional Frigates program will be hold for this term, and let new administration make the decision after 2024.
 
Last edited:
Ananda said:
TNI-AL official video on the crew live on the KRI Alugoro. One in fact the last boat of DSME 209 1400 for TNI-AL. This is just TNI-AL video shown on crew live during Ramadhan.
Click to expand...


Another video from TNI AL official site on Alugoro life and operations. Seems TNI AL want to shown the class is fully operational, to give other massage. Right now thanks to some local euro defense salesman and his followers, media got impression this class of three already become useless submarine. Some idiots even give rumours that the Submarine can't fire their torpedoes.

All this just to destroy ROK build submarine image on Indonesian media and public. Well that's how far salesmanship image war for getting public support anyway.
 
Ananda said:

Another video from TNI AL official site on Alugoro life and operations. Seems TNI AL want to shown the class is fully operational, to give other massage. Right now thanks to some local euro defense salesman and his followers, media got impression this class of three already become useless submarine. Some idiots even give rumours that the Submarine can't fire their torpedoes.

All this just to destroy ROK build submarine image on Indonesian media and public. Well that's how far salesmanship image war for getting public support anyway.
Click to expand...
What else can you expect in a country were politicians, 'experts' and 'professional journalists' even believe GFP-numbers.
 
Sandhi Yudha said:
Does this mean that only 2 Alpha 900 UAVs are delivered to BAKAMLA?
Click to expand...

I better repply in this thread, as more related to Naval thread. Seems so far the confirmation only for two of this type rotary UAV only being delivered to Bakamla. Found this two videos that being taken by local vlogers in last Info defence.



Last one quite good one talking on overall Bakamla present capabilities. Talking on Bakamla fleet basically divide on three types of 48m, 85m and 110m patrol ships, plus some of fast patrol boats. Shown Bakamla already being build for brown water constabulary duties.

They should get better investment, however some in Navy still want to build smaller naval vessels (KAL type) below 50m, when they should focus on OPV above for Green water duties.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top