I think your fingers were on auto there & you meant Thales.
Indonesia: 'green water navy'
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
Ahh yes..if you don't point it out, probably I'm still not realize that. Why the auto move from Thales to Therma, usually it is from Thales to Thanks
Ananda
The Bunker Group
From Indonesia Defence Review FB pages (one of Indonesian military enthusiasts blogs), shown banner on Arrowhead 140 based Red-White Frigate first cutting steel ceremony. Indonesian are big in ceremony, especially SOE company like PAL. Thus it can be save to say, they're really doing preparation for this Frigates production run soon.
Base on the picture on the banner, seems this derivative Frigates still based on basic Babcock design.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
From Keris FB, well it is December, and previously PAL CEO call November in Jane's as First Steel cut commencing.
One month delay, for Indonesian standard still acceptable I think. The 3D image of this Arrowhead 140 derivative of Red-White Frigates in PAL official call them, still (thankfully) based on Babcock design. Not that 143m Frigates they are showing in the Indofence. They are supposedly finish the project 57mo and 69mo for the first and second Frigates. Let's see if they can keep in schedule.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
"Red-White Frigate"....because of its Danish origin...
Well its just more practical (and because of that less chance of cost and time escalations) to stay as close to the original design.
I just wonder if PAL has space for building a 140 meter frigate if they also have to build the 3rd and 4th LPD of the Tarlac Class. I expect the planned modification/reconfiguration of the KRI Semarang 594 can be done outside.
Space won't be an issue. PT PAL has two graving dock. The smaller one is at 237 m long while the larger one at 300 m long. Like you, I also think the reconfiguration of KRI Semarang will be done outside since it shouldn't need a dry dock.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
I do wonder about that second graving dock (Dok Irian), suitability for manufacturing. Most of ship manufacturing done on the larger dry/graving dock (Dok Semarang).
The dock have enough cranes support, and has enough space assides to support modules being hoisted to assemble in the dock.
While Dok Irian,
Graving Dock Irian Kebanggaan PT PAL Indonesia (Persero) .. #Tahukahkamu Graving Dock Irian memiliki kapasitas 20.000 DWT dengan panjang 237 meter,... | By PT PAL Indonesia | Facebook
Graving Dock Irian Kebanggaan PT PAL Indonesia (Persero) .. #Tahukahkamu Graving Dock Irian memiliki kapasitas 20.000 DWT dengan panjang 237 meter,...
fb.watch
I'm not Naval engineer or Shipyard specialist, seems it is more use by PAL for repair and ship overhaul. So if they are continue to pile up work like LPD's on top Frigates, I do have questions whether their capacity can cope with the time target.
PAL facilities are not the biggest in Indonesia, some Batam yards have even bigger dry docks capacity then PAL. (Below picture just one of the example).
This's why I heard rumours that MinDef really think to diversify their job order to Yards in Batam or Banten area. Even not just Patrol Boats and LST's.
If we assume that PT PAL will keep the Irian dock for repair work, the Semarang dock us large enough to hold two ships at once. We do have the example of BRP Tarlac and BRP Davao del Sur which shared the Semarang dock for some time as their build time overlapped. On the other hand if PT PAL wants to sublet some work on the Philippine LPD, at this point I think both Tesco Indomaritim and Noahtu Shipyard (formerly Daya Radar Utama) are capable of putting together the two LPD under the supervision of PT PAL. There likely others too.
On the other hand, given the long time needed to make the frigates (57 months and 69 months) and the relatively fast build time for the LPD (slightly over two years, and even faster if we don't count the time for fitting, since that's done outside the dock), we might see PT PAL finishing Philippine's LPDs before laying the keel for the first Arrowhead frigate.
On the other hand, given the long time needed to make the frigates (57 months and 69 months) and the relatively fast build time for the LPD (slightly over two years, and even faster if we don't count the time for fitting, since that's done outside the dock), we might see PT PAL finishing Philippine's LPDs before laying the keel for the first Arrowhead frigate.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Personally this is what I believe they should do. More to situation that this Arrowhead 140 derivative will be the most complex Ship PAL project so far. This even with Babcock supervision help as license owner. 57 and 69 months if it is true from the time of contract on April last year, then those time table already cut by 19 months. This time table is for ship completion, thus I believe they only have around 2.5 years to launch from Dock and 2 years for completing, trial and hand over.
If they also conducting Submarine project or that 163m LPD UAE potentially order, they already have full hand. PAL is having better track record then other SOE shipyards, but they are still not the most reliable shipyard, even by Indonesian standard.
Better sub con some of their projects to Private Yards. Seems all 60m Patrol Boats will be handle by Private Yards, including next batch of KCR/FMB 60. Perhaps those 122-125m LPD should also be handle by Private yards. They're already shown good productivity on LST's, handling LPD after that will not be too difficult I think.
PT Daya Radar Utama or some other yard had some issues with the LST program? Noahtu seem to be already working on the OPV (98m?).
Ananda
The Bunker Group
From several shipyards that involved with LST program, the ones that have problem on delivery time is Kodja Bahari which is another SOE shipyard. The private ones including Daya Radar Utama (now Noahtu as tonnyc put), as far as delivery time table are more or less on time. They were having some teething problem on their first LST (if not mistaken), but something that rectifiable.
This is why I said in my previous post, the private Yards so far shown good productivity record on LST program. Quite ironic on Kodja Bahari performance, as they're actually that own the LST design. Still their performance is not something strange on SOE shipyards standard. Kodja Bahari has several yards, this actually make their capacity is bigger then PAL, which make them actually the biggest SOE yards group. However also part of one SOE with management problematic situation.
Yes Noahtu/DRU OPV 90 being talk by local defense blogs getting design adjustment and lenghten the length from 90m to 98m. However I don't see official DRU specs that confirm that. So I still see the OPV 90 they are working still within similar specs on original press release.
However OPV 90 is not PAL project, so it's not like Noahtu/DRU working as sub con from PAL. My previous post discuss more on what projects that PAL can relegate to other shiyards as Sub-Con in order to reduce their workload. For that, I don't include OPV project that now Noahtu work as prime contractor.
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Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
I was just reading again articles about this remarkable vessel.
|"Ada lagi yang unik dari KRI Bung Karno, tentang pembangunan kapal ini yang terbilang cepat. Dikutip dari tribunnews.com (21/6/2022), disebutkan kapal perang ini akan dibangun dalam waktu 12 bukan, dimana upacara pemotongan baja dan peletakan lunas pertama dilakukan pada 9 Juni 2022."
Dari spesifikasi, KRI Bung Karno 369 punya panjang 73 meter dan lebar 12 meter. Korvet ini ditenagai oleh dua mesin diesel 4.000 KW yang memungkinkan melaju dengan kecepatan jelajah 16 knots dan kecepatan maksimum 24 knots. KRI Bung Karno diawaki 55 orang personel. "|
1. So with a budget of only Rp 300 milyar, they want to construct this 73 × 12 meter FFBNW-corvette. I don't think it is a good idea to transport the president in a defenceless warship.
2. Its weird that this warship is already given a name and number at the moment construction began. Is this ship even worth it to be given the name of a proklamator? It is more a small/medium size support vessel.
3. With a maximum speed of 24 kts it will become TNI-AL 's slowest corvette.
4. Are these 55 crewmembers including the presidential family, staff and guards?
5. I can not believe they can build this 73 meter long ship in just 12 months.
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
TNI Angkatan Laut
Jalesveva Jayamahe TNI AL. Jakarta, 19 Desember 2022____Prajurit TNI Angkatan Laut bersama US Navy dan US Marine Corps berhasil menyerbu pantai Banongan, Situbondo, Jawa Timur, untuk melumpuhkan...
www.facebook.com
From TNI-AL FB pages on TNI-AL/Indonesian Marines and USN/USMC CARAT exercise in East Java Banongan beach. On this exercise TNI-AL committed 6 ships including 1 LPD and 1 LST. While USN provide 1 LPH. This LPH also include F-35B sq which provides air cover with TNI-AU F-16 covering 1 USN P-8 as ISTAR assets. (From Keris FB pages below).
www.facebook.com
Combo of BMP-3 and AAV-7 seems what Indonesian Marines hope for their standard Armoured replacing PT-76 and BTR-50 combo. Thus Indonesian Marines seems still want Russian armour as part of their inventory in future. For AAV-7 types either they hope for some ex USMC plus potential Turkiye ZAHA amphibious armour vehicle.
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I think you mean LPD. I wish TNI-AL have an LHD.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Yes my bad, Thanks to remind that. I used my other devices when type that post. That ones have tendencies more typo error. Just change that.
Incidently PAL few weeks back talk in media on planning provide LHD design next year. Too much ambition from PAL, consider they need to finish Fregat, Submarine and More LPD (including Philipines order). Their facilities is not thar big too begin with.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
5th KCR 60 going trial for naval sea acceptance trial as part for certification operational level. Quite interesting that in this video PAL shown speed of 30knt on this trial. Seems they are answering Indonesian online enthusiasts forums and some in media that question KCR (Fast Missiles Boats) term, as they are believed can't reach 30knt speed.
Anyway this 5th and 6th boats basically fall to 3rd batch. Many enthusiasts seems follow some 'sales man' tweet that down grade those PAL KCR due some problem on 1st batch. Despite PAL limitations and problem, this is practically new design. Thus some problem will arise especially on early batch. Seems this 3rd batch basically shown more improvement. Well that's part of learning curve.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Kementerian Pertahanan Republik Indonesia
www.kemhan.go.id
Kementerian Pertahanan Republik Indonesia
www.kemhan.go.id
Tweeter guy put his latest Tweet on problem with execution on FREMM procurement. I put his tweet as I also got somewhat confirmation from Finance circles, that financing packages for Fincantieri order still facing "thorough" assessment whether to progress, revise or cancelation altogether.
Finance guys in MoF will not going to decide if the program going to be cancel or not. It is not their job. Their Job is only to give green light on Finance packages on procurement of a project. However if they say the packages still facing "thorough" assessment, means there's good possibility the project owner themselves (means MinDef) also doing "reassessment" on that particular project.
Put two other official news for MinDef sites that I thought maybe related. First Prabowo talk with new Naval Chief which in there, Prabowo also talk on current fleet revitalization program of 41 ships being increase to 43 or even 44 if possible.
/data/photo/2023/01/03/63b39c7415b31.jpg)
Prabowo: Tolong, Kapal Perang yang Sudah Tak Bisa Beroperasi Masuk "Dock"
Menteri Pertahanan (Menhan) Prabowo Subianto ingin modernisasi KRI TNI Angkatan Laut (AL) ditingkatkan.
nasional.kompas.com
The second ones is his deputy meeting with Luhut (minister of everything), talking on increasing domestic industries procurement.
I sense this two article related, as first ones talking on "Interim" assets (as part of FREMM order also getting two ex Italian Navy Maestrale Frigates as interim). Seems there's indication all "interim" assets plan (whether interim Frigates, Corvettes, Submarines or even Fighters) can be shelves. The budget for interim assets then being used to revitalize existing fleet domestically (thus put jobs toward local shipyards).
Second ones on getting more domestics procurement could be related to rumours that talk on shelve FREMM with Arrowhead 140 based design. This as going to be build all domestically.
Off course all of this is just rumours, and enthusiasts like me try to put one and two info together. However as I have point out before, if all projects like FREMM or F-15ID/EX being persue. Then something must give. Some projects will need to be drop as just too much burden on fiscall budget, if all going to be pursue. That what finance guys also seems indicating to happen. Something must give, not all can be pursue.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
If im not wrong, this article isn't yet posted here.
Indo Defence 2022: Indonesian company discloses details of country's new MCMVs
A local representative of Abeking & Rasmussen in Indonesia has disclosed further details of the two new mine countermeasure vessels (MCMVs) that are on order for the...
www.janes.com
Looking to the picture it looks like the MHV60 design will be armed with the Mauser BK 27 after all, that's bad news, adding another new never used by TNI-AL caliber while they also can install a 30 or 40 mm gun is not the smartest thing they can do.
PT PAL has fully integrated the BAE Systems Bofors 57 Mk3 naval gun on the country's third and fourth KCR-60M-class fast attack craft (FAC), KRI Halasan (630) and KRI Kerambit (627). So these two vessels will be ready to rejoin the fleet soon, with the first and second KCR-60 having the AU-220M 57 mm gun and the fifth and sixth vessels coming soon with also the Bofors 57 mm Mk3.
Indonesia completes installation of 57 mm naval guns on two KCR-60M vessels
Indonesia's state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL has fully integrated the BAE Systems Bofors 57 Mk3 naval gun on the country's third and fourth KCR-60M-class fast attack craft...
www.janes.com
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Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
This week on 19 January 2023, TNI-AL has commissioned the last of two ordered hospital ships from PAL.
According to PAL's CEO:
“The construction of the second hospital ship has now reached 100% completion. The ship’s entire construction has been completed, its propulsion system and medical facilities have been installed. This hospital ship has met the criterias, including achieving a maximum speed when fully loaded, namely an average of 18.3 knots, exceeding the target of 18 knots and even reaching a top speed of 19.7 knots.”
So with this last hospital ship, KRI Dr. Radjiman Wedyodiningrat 992, the Indonesian Navy has in total 3 hospital ships in its fleet. KRI Dr. Wahidin Sudirohusodo 991 was commissioned in January 2022, while KRI Dr. Soeharso 990 was delivered by DSME in September 2003 as the KRI Tanjung Dalpele 972.
www.navalnews.com
According to PAL's CEO:
“The construction of the second hospital ship has now reached 100% completion. The ship’s entire construction has been completed, its propulsion system and medical facilities have been installed. This hospital ship has met the criterias, including achieving a maximum speed when fully loaded, namely an average of 18.3 knots, exceeding the target of 18 knots and even reaching a top speed of 19.7 knots.”
So with this last hospital ship, KRI Dr. Radjiman Wedyodiningrat 992, the Indonesian Navy has in total 3 hospital ships in its fleet. KRI Dr. Wahidin Sudirohusodo 991 was commissioned in January 2022, while KRI Dr. Soeharso 990 was delivered by DSME in September 2003 as the KRI Tanjung Dalpele 972.
Indonesian Navy commissions new hospital ship - Naval News
On January 19, 2023, Indonesian shipbuilder PT PAL delivered a second hospital ship, the "Dr. Radjiman Wedyodiningrat" (pennant number 992), to the Indonesian Navy (TNI AL) during a ceremony in Surabaya.
www.navalnews.com
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
8.3K views · 363 reactions | Finally, the wait is over! Another magnificent masterpiece of Indonesia’s dignity is rolling to town. Are you excited SobatPal? The Ceremony of Delivery “Kapal Bantu Rumah Sakit dr. Radjiman Wedyodiningrat-992” will be happening soon. Buckle up, and make sure you don't miss the moment ! #PTPALIndonesia #BUMNUntukIndonesia #HomeofHospitalShip | PT PAL Indonesia
Finally, the wait is over! Another magnificent masterpiece of Indonesia’s dignity is rolling to town. Are you excited SobatPal? The Ceremony of Delivery “Kapal Bantu Rumah Sakit dr. Radjiman...
www.facebook.com
Just add the video in this 3rd hospital ships. Previous TNI-AL chief already told media they are aiming for 3 hospital ships, as one for each fleet. For that interim Hospital Ship KRI Semarang will be reverted back as LPD.
Fungsi LPD KRI Semarang 594 akan Dikembalikan pada Tahun 2021
22 Januari 2019 KRI Semarang 594 (photo : Masyhudi) TNI AL Berencana Akan Kembali Pesan Kapal Rumah Sakit KBRN, Surabaya: TNI Angka...
defense-studies.blogspot.com
This ships practically enable KRI Semarang back to original function as LPD.
Finishing this ship also give more room for PAL to keep their yards slot for their other projects in schedule. Including Pinoy Navy LPD order.