Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Sandhi Yudha said:
Refurbishment and installing new propulsion systems into a second hand Pohang class corvette can be much more than the $21 million.
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At this moment most of us as defense enthusiasts can only speculate at this moment what to expect on this ex Pohang corvette procurement. It could be they will going to go through similar MLU as Fatahilah class Corvettes.

Those corvettes after MLU eventough got new system, but have their missiles being taken out. Their power pack reengined from CODAG to CODAD. Thus basically they are more as OPV after MLU. So this could also 'potentially' happen to those ex Pohang.

Those Pohang and Fatahillah basically come from more or less similar era (80's tech). So it is possible to get those ex Pohang and treat them just as TNI-AL done to Fatahillah as more to OPV interim. This until TNI-AL can get more indigenous OPV program.
 
Ananda said:
At this moment most of us as defense enthusiasts can only speculate at this moment what to expect on this ex Pohang corvette procurement. It could be they will going to go through similar MLU as Fatahilah class Corvettes.

Those corvettes after MLU eventough got new system, but have their missiles being taken out. Their power pack reengined from CODAG to CODAD. Thus basically they are more as OPV after MLU. So this could also 'potentially' happen to those ex Pohang.

Those Pohang and Fatahillah basically come from more or less similar era (80's tech). So it is possible to get those ex Pohang and treat them just as TNI-AL done to Fatahillah as more to OPV interim. This until TNI-AL can get more indigenous OPV program.
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Can I make a suggestion? Maybe @Sandhi Yudha @tonnyc and yourself should have a glorious revolution and take charge. Then things will get done properly. :D
 
ngatimozart said:
Can I make a suggestion? Maybe @Sandhi Yudha @tonnyc and yourself should have a glorious revolution and take charge. Then things will get done properly. :D
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Of course. We'll call ourselves the Glorious Triumvirate and embark on a wide-sweeping reform that will transform the country into a major world power (as opposed to a mere regional one). While we all have our differences, on a broad scale there's a lot of stuff we agree on so I'm sure we can work it out. I'll start by proposing serious funding toward designing and building a miniaturized 50 MWe nuclear reactor and using that as both power generator and naval propulsion.
:D :D :D
 
Ananda said:
Why @ngatimozart ? As Sir Humphrey always quote "it is not my place to disagree the mighty" Directing the mighty to take the decision that we can live (relatively) is more fun tough ;).
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You sir, have been influenced far too much by British TV !

Try Yes, Prime Minister, series one, episode 5 from 1986....

"Sir Humphrey: It is not for a humble mortal such as I to speculate on the complex and elevated deliberations of the mighty. But in general, I think Sir Frank believes that if the Treasury knows something has to be done, the Cabinet shouldn't have too much time to think about it."

Classic BBC Comedy...
 
Systems Adict said:
have been influenced far too much by British TV !
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Sir Humphrey quotes and lessons many are still relevant toward present days bureaucracy works globally. This's one of two BBC's show that I still come back to watch from time to time. For me it is rank second only to BBC's three blubbering buffoon automotive show. One that's go downhill once BBC's terminated the chief buffoon and make all three left.

That show also how Bureaucracy (in this case BBC ones) can make blunder and so far unable to recover one program glory.

Sandhi Yudha said:
Now we only need a president.
No Ananda, not the Oracle on Twitter
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You know that will be disastrously fun to watch.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1575757086427848707

Apparently, there's already a number attached to the procurement of armaments for the FFBNW Arrowhead 140. As for the number itself, the only source that I find credible (or at least reliable) that mentioned it is from this Youtube Channel, which unfortunately is in Indonesian.


TL;DW version, the value is written in DRPPLN (Foreign Loan Planning Document) is 401 Million USD, which consists of mid-range SAM, long-range SAM, long-range surface to surface missile, anti sub torperdo, and Oto Melara 76. It made no mention on what each of these systems will be. It is interesting though, that even though the news of the ship's construction itself is still in limbo, they're already preparing the procurement for its armament. At least, we may be able to look forward to the ship not being empty by the time it enter service.
 
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That you tube channel basically also his channel. Some how Bapenas green book (DRPPLN) revision (for defense procurement) has not been shown in Bapenas public domain. They only shown version on DRPPLN with MinDef mostly Medical procurement. In sense we can only relied on those defense 'insiders' on what kind of projects already got DRPPLN allotment.

Thus if his numbers right, then those two Arrow 140 derivative Frigates budget fully armed will be close to USD 1.2 bio. Consists of USD 750 mio on platform and USD 400+ mio on armament. This make then cost close to USD 600 mio per Frigate. Thus will not be much different from those six FREMM that being speculate cost USD 4.0+ bio for all six Frigates.

This is why even if MinDef got the whole procurement allotment foreign credit line budget they're proposing for this term (USD 20.0+bio), it's still will be streach out thin on making some of the projects being proposed has to be drop.
 
Ananda said:
That you tube channel basically also his channel. Some how Bapenas green book (DRPPLN) revision (for defense procurement) has not been shown in Bapenas public domain. They only shown version on DRPPLN with MinDef mostly Medical procurement. In sense we can only relied on those defense 'insiders' on what kind of projects already got DRPPLN allotment.

Thus if his numbers right, then those two Arrow 140 derivative Frigates budget fully armed will be close to USD 1.2 bio. Consists of USD 750 mio on platform and USD 400+ mio on armament. This make then cost close to USD 600 mio per Frigate. Thus will not be much different from those six FREMM that being speculate cost USD 4.0+ bio for all six Frigates.

This is why even if MinDef got the whole procurement allotment foreign credit line budget they're proposing for this term (USD 20.0+bio), it's still will be streach out thin on making some of the projects being proposed has to be drop.
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US$1.2 billion for two frigates isn't to bad at all. They won't be slouches either and are good platforms.
 
Yes USD 600 mio seems will be in the ball park of most current Frigates on the size. I read somewhere before that Type 31 actual cost fully equipped speculated will be around GBP 500 mio. This's already sometime ago, and I don't keep the article anymore. If this's true then this Arrow 140 derivative that PAL working on will cost in similar ball park with final cost of Type 31.
 


TNI-AL Instagram shown the first MCMV from Abeking & Rasmussen being prepared for launch. On other media, Abeking & Rasmussen seems also became one of the bidders for Oceanography vessel. This vessel will also have capabilities for Submarine Rescue.

Back to MCMV, the contract is for two. Also the two MCMV of Dutch Tripartite class being rumours to be maintained and upgrade. If this true, then only the ex East German Mine Sweeper that's going to be retired.

TNI Angkatan Laut

www.tnial.mil.id www.tnial.mil.id

Bit hyperbole as usual, claiming the MCMV will be the most advance MCMV. Well in a way this will be the most advance MCMV for TNI-AL.

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Ananda said:


TNI-AL Instagram shown the first MCMV from Abeking & Rasmussen being prepared for launch. On other media, Abeking & Rasmussen seems also became one of the bidders for Oceanography vessel. This vessel will also have capabilities for Submarine Rescue.

Back to MCMV, the contract is for two. Also the two MCMV of Dutch Tripartite class being rumours to be maintained and upgrade. If this true, then only the ex East German Mine Sweeper that's going to be retired.

TNI Angkatan Laut

www.tnial.mil.id www.tnial.mil.id

Bit hyperbole as usual, claiming the MCMV will be the most advance MCMV. Well in a way this will be the most advance MCMV for TNI-AL.

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Facebook

www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
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At last....some news about the two Abeking&Rasmussen minehunters....thanks for sharing.

Its nothing more than logic to keep the much newer and advanced Tripartite/Alkmaarklasse minehunters (and modernise them) and to retire the much older East-German Project 89.2 minesweepers. Doing the opposite thing would be weird.

I lack any knowledge about constructing ships, but such exposed shafts (what we can see on the pictures), does this not ask for continues technical problems?
https://twitter.com/x/status/1578241760936894464



Here some beautiful shots of KRI R.E.Martadinata 331.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1577298999794872320
 
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KRI Usman Harun upgrade work to be completed by the end of 2023.
This summer, after many months of engineering, the Indonesian multi-role light frigate (MRLF) KRI Usman Harun was delivered to the PT PAL construction site. All mission systems are being modernised to fulfil the frigate’s mission profile with optimum performance. ......... The modernisation of the KRI Usman Harun is expected to be completed by the end of 2023 and will ensure the Indonesian fleet remains one of the most advanced in the region.
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Modification works in full swing for the complete modernisation of the KRI Usman Harun frigate’s mission systems - Nevesbu

The supposed details of the upgrade works,
An ambitious final specification was drawn up, including Thales’s latest-generation TACTICOS Combat Management System, SMART-S Mk2 3D and STIR 1.2 EO Mk2 radars, a Vigile Mk2 ESM, and two new tactical data links – Link Y Mk2 and a tactical data link that will be wholly delivered by PT Len, providing connectivity to Indonesia’s military communications network and enabling the corvette to play its full part in wider naval task forces. Existing weaponry will also be fully integrated, and a new VL MICA surface-to-air missile system added – a significant boost for vessel self-defence.
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Thales to modernize multi-role light frigate KRI Usman-Harun of Indonesian Navy

If it as the article above mention (published in 2020), then the upgraded KRI Usman Harun will be close to Martadinata-class in sensor & weapon specification.
 
Ananda said:

From TNI-AL official site, on ceremony in Abeking & Rasmussen yard on officially claim the two MCMV. At the same time officially launch the first one. The rest of article shown more what already talk before as those two are the most advance MCMV in Indonesian Navy inventory.
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So typical.....one single image in the whole article...and ofcourse just some high officials are on it, with 0% warship visible. Well at least we now know the names of these two new vessels and the correct sizes.

Ibu Vero Yudo Margono selaku “Ibu Kandung Kapal”
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It almost sounds like she has given birth to a whole MCMV....

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Here we can find a photo from the front of one of the new MCMVs, it will get the number 731.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1580146589930164224
 
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Sandhi Yudha said:
almost sounds like she has given birth to a whole MCMV....
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Actually it is not different in sense then tradition of Naval Ship Sponsor on several leading navies like USN and RN. Many other navies just emulate that on their own form.

Anyway as the actual list of this year revise PSP (MoF financial portion of approved credit line) and Green Book has not been shown to the public (especially portion of revise approval on MinDef financing line), we the public relied on snipest from those defense 'insiders' (or sales guys) like the Twitter guy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580285424836046848

Unlike Twitter guy, I don't find MoF approval for SRV financing line is surprising. On contrary with political pressure to have one after Nenggala incident, it is surprising if it is not being approved.
 
Ananda said:
Actually it is not different in sense then tradition of Naval Ship Sponsor on several leading navies like USN and RN. Many other navies just emulate that on their own form.

Anyway as the actual list of this year revise PSP (MoF financial portion of approved credit line) and Green Book has not been shown to the public (especially portion of revise approval on MinDef financing line), we the public relied on snipest from those defense 'insiders' (or sales guys) like the Twitter guy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580285424836046848

Unlike Twitter guy, I don't find MoF approval for SRV financing line is surprising. On contrary with political pressure to have one after Nenggala incident, it is surprising if it is not being approved.
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It will be indeed a disgrace if after the KRI Nanggala 402 disaster, our government is still not willing to order a submarine rescue ship. But i am a little bit surprised that he is talking about two British candidates. As far as i know the RN didn't receive any submarine rescue vessels recently.
Does the RN even has such ships? On internet i couldn't find it, or do the Echo-class multi-purpose survey vessels also have a role as submarine rescue ships?

I wonder if there other candidates, some navies have recently ordered submarine rescue vessels, joining one of these programs can be practical and can also decrease the costs and development period.

Italia is now building the Unità Supporto Subacqueo Polivalente (Multipurpose submarine rescue vessel), but its quite large and with a price tag of €434 million out of our reach.

Istanbul Shipyard delivered the Alemdar (A-582) in 2017, that one should be lower in costs.

And Navantia is now building the BAM-IS (Intervención Subacuática/Underwater Intervention). The Meteoro-class patrolboats have a price lower than €190 million, so the BAM-IS should be also much cheaper .
 
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Sandhi Yudha said:
But i am a little bit surprised that he is talking about two British candidates. As far as i know the RN didn't receive any submarine rescue vessels recently.
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I suspect he is talking on not the whole mother ships, but the DSRV and ROV systems. The mothet ships it self basically can be workout by many yards, including domestic ones especially those in Batam area (most likely through licensing other yard design).

However, the DSRV itself, is produced by very specialist manufacturer. Like LR series from Perry Slysby System in UK.

LR-7 Rescue Submersiable

www.globalsecurity.org www.globalsecurity.org

Basically on the whole submarine rescue vessels packages, those DSRV, ROV, Thermobalic Chamber, and supporting infrastructure are the main costs rather than the mothership itself. Those are the ones that need specialise company to supply. UK has couple of those at least.

I'm no naval industry specialist, but seems any yards that can produce basic oceanic research types ships, can produce the mother ships. They just need to make sure their design fit with the specialise submersible and underwater rescue aparatus.
 
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deadlast said:
KRI Usman Harun upgrade work to be completed by the end of 2023.


Modification works in full swing for the complete modernisation of the KRI Usman Harun frigate’s mission systems - Nevesbu

The supposed details of the upgrade works,


Thales to modernize multi-role light frigate KRI Usman-Harun of Indonesian Navy

If it as the article above mention (published in 2020), then the upgraded KRI Usman Harun will be close to Martadinata-class in sensor & weapon specification.
Click to expand...
It looks as if she's being brought in line with the Martadinata class systems. That should ease logistics. I can't help wondering how many VL Mica she'll get & whether Indonesia will move to VL Mica NG.

I presume the other two ships of the class will get the same upgrade.
 
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