Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[STURM]

Three of them were Indonesians and three of them have foreign passports with them, two Malaysian passports and one from Communist China.

That's a bizarre blend : Malaysian, Indonesian and Chinese nationals. Wonder who they are working for.

Sebatik Island is shared between Malaysia and Indonesia. It is/was quite common for locals to routinely cross the border without any checks. It's about a 2 hour boat ride from the Malaysian town of Tawau on the mainland. During the Confrontation or what Sukarno called Dwikora; quite a bit fighting took place in the area; the Indonesians trying to infiltrate into Malaysia.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

That's a bizarre blend : Malaysian, Indonesian and Chinese nationals. Wonder who they are working for.

Sebatik Island is shared between Malaysia and Indonesia. It is/was quite common for locals to routinely cross the border without any checks. It's about a 2 hour boat ride from the Malaysian town of Tawau on the mainland. During the Confrontation or what Sukarno called Dwikora; quite a bit fighting took place in the area; the Indonesians trying to infiltrate into Malaysia.

Yes, its a remarkable infiltration unit. The Malaysians and Indonesians are probably part of the team because they know the place.

But the weirdest part is this:
|"Mereka diduga melakukan spionase karena temuan foto-foto patok batas, pos penjagaan militer, dan Pos Lintas Batas Negara (PLBN). Pihak TNI telah menyerahkan mereka ke pihak imigrasi."|

If the foreigners were really spying, you will not give them to the Immigration to kick them out of the country, but
you will hand him over to an intelligence agency to question them and put them im jail.


Btw, the second purpose built hospitalship (BRS 2), is now at 81%.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1119289408661499

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552266597406244864

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The last of nine ordered Teluk Bintuni-clqss landing ships has been commissioned on 8 August 2022.
KRI Teluk Calang is built by PT Daya Radar Utama (DRU), in Bandar Lampung. The ship was ordered from DRU as part of a three-ship order of the Teluk Bintuni-class ships (AT-117 type LST program) in January 2017, with sequence number AT-7.

TNI ANGKATAN LAUT

www.tnial.mil.id

Indonesian Navy commissions 9th and Final Bintuni-Class LST - Naval News

Indonesian Navy (TNI AL) commissioned the ninth and final indigenously built Bintuni-Class LST, KRI Teluk Calang (524), on August 08, 2022.

www.navalnews.com

It's not the first time that an AU-220M 57 mm gun is fired from one of the KCR-60 patrolboats, but here we can see some photos from a recent test onboard the KRI Tombak 629.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556115743644995585

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Yes, its a remarkable infiltration unit. The Malaysians and Indonesians are probably part of the team because they know the place.

But the weirdest part is this:
|"Mereka diduga melakukan spionase karena temuan foto-foto patok batas, pos penjagaan militer, dan Pos Lintas Batas Negara (PLBN). Pihak TNI telah menyerahkan mereka ke pihak imigrasi."|

If the foreigners were really spying, you will not give them to the Immigration to kick them out of the country, but
you will hand him over to an intelligence agency to question them and put them im jail.


Btw, the second purpose built hospitalship (BRS 2), is now at 81%.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1119289408661499

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552266597406244864

PAL has launched now the last of two new hospital ships for the Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL) on 15 August 2021 : The "Dr. Radjiman Wedyodiningrat" with pennant number 992.

PT PAL Launches 2nd Hospital Ship For the Indonesian Navy - Naval News

Indonesian state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL launched a new hospital ship for the Indonesian Navy (TNI AL) on 15 August 2022.

www.navalnews.com

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559065547420995584

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559080776662020096

 

[Ananda]

has launched now thr last of two new hospital ships for the Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL) on 15 August 2021. The "Dr. Radjiman Wedyodiningrat"

Perhaps after this, the Yard can be clear for processing that arrowhead 140 derivatives. The local forums already talk on August schedulle for first steel cutting. The sign already shown they are finalising the design.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Perhaps after this, the Yard can be clear for processing that arrowhead 140 derivatives. The local forums already talk on August schedulle for first steel cutting. The sign already shown they are finalising the design.

In that case i wonder how they will have space for modifying KRI Semarang 594 into a normal LPD, and where the two additional Tarlac class LPDs will be built.

 

[tonnyc]

In that case i wonder how they will have space for modifying KRI Semarang 594 into a normal LPD, and where the two additional Tarlac class LPDs will be built.

Changing KRI Semarang's configuration from a hospital ship to a regular LPD should not need a drydock. And from past experience, the two Tarlac class LPDs will be built consecutively, so only one slot is actually needed.

 

[Ananda]

TNI ANGKATAN LAUT

www.tnial.mil.id

Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL) official sites talk on offcially commencing Torpedo Countermeasures System on their DSME 1400 subs. At least the lead boat Nagapasa already operational with the system.

Sometime back Turkiye Aselsan officialy announce TNI-AL already order their ZARGANA TCMS and ZOKA decoys that already operational on Turkish Navy 209. Whole integration with TNI-AL boats, being done by PAL. Adding venue for PAL to add their capabilities on further work on this Submarine type.

Personally for me, this shown that second batch of DSME 1400 should be further pursue as plan. If there's disagreement on how or rate of Tech Transfer on the project, it is better to rearrange the agreement, rather than talk with other OEM partner for another type of licensing product. PAL should finish and master one type of Submarine production before can move to another type.

They have shown good model of licensing then developing their own version with Makasar class LPD and its derivatives. Should better move on similar direction with the Subs too. There's little information with what really been the sources of disagreement within Indonesian MinDef for continuation on second batch of DSME 1400.

 

[deadlast]

In that case i wonder how they will have space for modifying KRI Semarang 594 into a normal LPD, and where the two additional Tarlac class LPDs will be built.

Some of KRI Semarang more specialized medical function & facilities were built around portable tent and containerized module system, no need extensive drydock period to remove those.

Medical container module:

Portable tent on vehicle deck:

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

DSME Faces Financial Loss with Indonesian Submarine Project - Naval News

DSME is reportedly expected to face 90 billion KRW ($67 million USD) worth of financial loss. The South Korean shipbuilding company pre-ordered components for three Indonesian submarines that DSME won in 2019 while the contract has yet to take effect.

www.navalnews.com

South-Korea will be undoubtly much more careful in the future to sign defence contracts with Indonesia as long the administrqtion is PDI-P controlled.

Hopefully there will be paid for the additional 6 T-50i advanced jet trainers.

 

[Ananda]

South-Korea will be undoubtly much more careful in the future to sign defence contracts with Indonesia as long the administrqtion is PDI-P controlled.

ROK now doing their best to lobby Pinoy for DSME 1400. If that happen, they can hope to recoup some loss. Until now, we still don't know for sure whether the 2nd batch being delayed due to 'quality' issue from the 1st batch, or because some other OEM manage to convince MinDef they can give better industrial co-op with PAL for better learning curve program.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Three new warships for TNI-AL:
KRI Dorang 874, KRI Bawal 875 patrol boats and KRI Balongan 908 Oiler.

The patrolboats are from the PC-60 class, with a length of 60 m long, displacement of 520 ton and armed with an old recycled Bofors 40 mm gun and two 12,7 mm machine guns.

Dua kapal patroli cepat perkuat alutsista TNI Angkatan Laut

Dua kapal patroli cepat 60 meter terbaru, yakni KRI Dorang-874 dan KRI Bawal-875 memperkuat jajaran alat utama sistem senjata atau alutsista TNI Angkatan ...

m.antaranews.com

KRI Balongan 908 is the third Kapal Bantu Cair Minyak of the Tarakan Class. All are built by Domestic Shipyards.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565648346282610689

Its not often that a joint exercise between the Indonesian Navy and Vietnam People's Navy are being held. Here we can see KRI Bung Tomo 357 and Lý Thái Tổ HQ-012 near the Riau Islands.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565581939028856833

A nice view on this Project 108 Hoyerswerda/Teluk Gilimanuk class LST.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567016456583540741

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Sad news, a Disnerbal training aircraft crashed today in the Selat Madura.
It seems to be a single single- engine G-36 Bonanza with registration T-2503. This accident is now under investigation.
Pesawat Latih TNI AL Jatuh di Selat Madura.

TNI Plane That Crashed in Madura Was Fit to Fly: Naval Flight Commander

Rear Admiral TNI Dwika Tjahja Setiawan said that the G-36 Bonanza Navy aircraft that crashed into the Madura Strait Sea was in good condition

en.tempo.co

I have no idea what that chinese tracking ship is doing there in our territorial waters and sailing out of the designated international shipping lane.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567754698794598401

For the people around Sydney....

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567699997428416515

 

[Ananda]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569466878082568192

The answer to Mr Koh Twitter is simply both Indonesian Navy and Coast Guard don't have adequete budget to keep their presence 24/7 in Natuna Sea. While Chinese Coast Guard have enough resources to keep close to perpetual presences there.

Chine coast guards and fisheries can maintain continues presences around their "civilian" fishing boats fleets. While many SEA fishing boats (whether Indonesian, Vietnamese, Malaysian or Philipines) can not hope that around the clock coverage from their own respectives naval fleets.

There're rumours on the idea of sharing securities resources among ASEAN members bordering SCS. However this will complicate matters of sharing jurisdictions (something that's still "no-no" among ASEAN members) and more importantly open the door for ASEAN joint securities arrangement. Which in turn just a bit too close on securities pact. Thus it is too sensitives for ASEAN basic principle that still avoiding that area.

For Indonesia, to me this is shown more OPV's for Navy and Coast Guards plus accompanies enough operating budgets is more important then fancy frigattes. Unless the respectives present and futures administrations and their respectives political parties in parliement, can commit for more defense and securities budgets (investment and operational).

Something that I don't see the Indonesian political establisments can have enough guts to commit for substantial invesment on the area, in foreseable future. Yes they can talk on increasing invrstment and operations. However mostly for images building, and to follow that with enough money trails commitment, that's another stories.

So beggar can't choose. Build more Patrol boats and OPV's for more presences. It is cheaper in Investments and more importantly cheaper to operate. However it will not be 'sexy' projects, which god knows Indonesian Bureacracies and Political establishment are like image buildings, sexy and fat projects.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569466878082568192

The answer to Mr Koh Twitter is simply both Indonesian Navy and Coast Guard don't have adequete budget to keep their presence 24/7 in Natuna Sea. While Chinese Coast Guard have enough resources to keep close to perpetual presences there.

Chine coast guards and fisheries can maintain continues presences around their "civilian" fishing boats fleets. While many SEA fishing boats (whether Indonesian, Vietnamese, Malaysian or Philipines) can not hope that around the clock coverage from their own respectives naval fleets.

There're rumours on the idea of sharing securities resources among ASEAN members bordering SCS. However this will complicate matters of sharing jurisdictions (something that's still "no-no" among ASEAN members) and more importantly open the door for ASEAN joint securities arrangement. Which in turn just a bit too close on securities pact. Thus it is too sensitives for ASEAN basic principle that still avoiding that area.

For Indonesia, to me this is shown more OPV's for Navy and Coast Guards plus accompanies enough operating budgets is more important then fancy frigattes. Unless the respectives present and futures administrations and their respectives political parties in parliement, can commit for more defense and securities budgets (investment and operational).

Something that I don't see the Indonesian political establisments can have enough guts to commit for substantial invesment on the area, in foreseable future. Yes they can talk on increasing invrstment and operations. However mostly for images building, and to follow that with enough money trails commitment, that's another stories.

So beggar can't choose. Build more Patrol boats and OPV's for more presences. It is cheaper in Investments and more importantly cheaper to operate. However it will not be 'sexy' projects, which god knows Indonesian Bureacracies and Political establishment are like image buildings, sexy and fat projects.

We need both OPVs and advanced frigates. We absolutely need them both.
What we don't need are prestige projects like a new capital or expensive cars for officials. Yes i understand a minister needs a large car which can offer protection, but also lower levels of officials expect they can get lux expensive cars with escorte.
What we also don't need is local governments spending Rp28 billion of a separate bicycle lane, and then a politician decides to demolish it again. Or local governments placing billions worth of monuments which start to disintegrate in months.

 

[Ananda]

need both OPVs and advanced frigates. We absolutely need them both.
What we don't need are prestige projects like a new capital or expensive cars for officials. Yes i understand a minister needs a large car which can offer protection, but also lower levels of officials expect they can get lux expensive cars with escorte.

There's article from Benard Sondakh, he's Navy Chief under Megawati Administration and early SBY First term. He's known as the ones that fight and got approval for four Sigma 9113 corvettes.

Despite some online media comments for those corvettes, he put something that I see as so far one of handicap for all three TNI's branch, which is operational budget. Sigma Corvettes is sophisticated enough (for TNI operational environments) and relative cheap to operate. This kind of thinking is also the ones that seems decide on taking over three ex Brunai Nahkoda Ragam corvettes.

Sondakh I remember that time to champion TNI-AL focusing on FCS and Corvettes not because there's no need for Frigattes, but simply more on arguments can TNI-AL afford to operate modern Frigattes. Sometime after Prabowo's MinDef sign MoU with Fincantieri for those 6 FREMM, he comented in media saying "it is good for Government to procured that kind of Frigattes, just don't forget to give enough budget to operating them".

That's why I'm saying beggar can not choose. So far I just don't see enough money trails on 'huge' increase in operating budgets commitment. We can talk on Rafale or FREMM, just hope they are preparing enough budgets to operate them, as those will be nor only expensive to procured but much more expensive to operate then what TNI use to operates. I believe this is one of reasons why Soeharto decided to scrap ex USSR Cruiser and Destroyers. Many online milenials enthusiats talk of Soeharto scrap them due to pressures from Neighbours and US. However I do see it more because under early 70's economic conditions, those cruiser and destroyers simply unaffordable to operate.

So Arrow 140 derivatives seems allready calculate enough to be supported operationally. It's enough chatters in media and online sources that MinDef already give Down Payment for the project to PAL-Babcock. However I don't see the progress on money trails for FREMM yet. Personally I do have more hope on OPV's.

As for new capital project, personally I don't see the need for that. Better use the money to build dikes like in Netherland to safe guard Jakarta coasts and revitalise better water ways management to prevent flood. That's what the Dutch Blue Prints for Jakarta/Batavia which Indonesian governments after that only follow partially. No wonder Jakarta have this much problem. Then again New Capital is more grandeur, image buildings, sexy projects then Dikes and water ways in Jakarta.

Anyway it is more on Politics rather then Defense talks. Back to TNI-AL and Coast Guards, under present situations more 'presences' is needed. Rather then more 'shiny' advances assets but have diffilculties to operate due constraint in operational budgets. TNI until now in many occasion still need to 'borrow' fuels from Pertamina, and mostly pay them when during next year budget allocations. Not good signs for operational readiness.

 

[STURM]

I believe this is one of reasons why Soeharto decided to scrap ex USSR Cruiser and Destroyers. Many online milenials enthusiats talk of Soeharto scrap them due to pressures from Neighbours and US. However I do see it more because under early 70's economic conditions, those cruiser and destroyers simply unaffordable to operate.

From what I read somewhere the main issue with the Soviet ships, subs, aircraft
and missiles was a lack of spares. It was either the case of Indonesia not wanting to source spares and continuing to operate the stuff due to political reasons or the Soviets refusing to provide spares.

 

[Ananda]

It was either the case of Indonesia not wanting to source spares and continuing to operate the stuff due to political reasons or the Soviets refusing to provide spares.

From what I gather including from old interviews in the 80's - 90's media, the Soviet did not actually say no for supply the spares. In fact in the early 70's they offer another scheme.

In early 70's the Soviet still from my understanding try to get good relationship with Soeharto's regime. He's not fully in control yet (as an authoritarian leadership perspective), there's still enough 'left leaning' figures in Indonesian politics (like foreign minister Adam Malik, and some Soekarno's appointed Generals). However those USSR military assets already procured using Soviet credit lines, and Soeharto basically (like it or not) inherited 'bankrupt' economy.

Simply say it is economics situation (off course politics matter) that's also influence the decision. Just like in the AF, the more expensive assets to maintain like Mig 21 and Tu-16 are the first to be grounded. Mig 17 actually still fly until 73-74, while L-29 still being used as lead advance trainers until Hawk 53 come in the 80's.

So as in TNI-AL inventory. Until early 80's some Soviet Frigates, Missile FAC (Komar class) still operational with their Styx SSM until in the 80's ROK build Missile FAC replace them with Exocet MM38. What got early retirement just like in the TNI-AU are the expensives assets, as in Cruiser and Destroyers. Indonesian still maintain 2 Whiskey Subs operational until 209 come in later half of the 80's. Got talk with my friend father who's submariners, and he say those Subs actually can get spares and the batteries can be source from India. Problem the budget can only available to operate 2 of them.

That's why Admiral Sondakh as mentioned in my post remind in media to not forget the capabilities of operational budget. TNI is already got several experience of operating assets not in full readiness because the planners in MinDef calculate more on procurement costs but not fully calculate the life time sustainment and operational budget.

 

[STURM]

That's very interesting; had no idea Whiskeys and Komars were still operational until the 1980's.

 

[Ananda]

Yes, during TNI combine exercises in early 80's, the last Whiskey Submarine KRI Pasopati still actively involve. Once I saw pictures of KRI Cakra (type 209) and KRI Pasopati together in Surabaya Naval base, from local forums. Thus shown Pasopati still operational until the time the second 209 (the late KRI Nenggala) commision as replacement.

Jane's fighting ships on early 80's still put TNI AL Komar FAC and Riga class Frigattes in active inventory. There's reason why Indonesian Navy take over the entire US Claud Jones class frigates. It is not popular for USN standard but fitting for TNI-AL standard that time for the economics operational costs.

Just hope the 'problrmatic' budgetaries calculation already solve when they try to induct those expensives assets like FREMM or Rafale. Still I'm not surprises if it is not. There's saying "even a donkey learn not to fall twice in the same hole". However bureaucracy is known not following that rules.