Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion

[aaaditya]

All the vessels you listed aren't nearly as old as Trenton, that was only one of 3 points, the others being structurally damaged and size. Gorshkov is a necessity IMO. IN can't wait for the first ADS so they have to buy it. It isn't that old but America does take better care of her ships. My thing is the age really, I can't see why they couldn't wait to make their own NEW LPD.

age of the ship is irrelevant as long as the technology is frequently upgraded and a proper periodical maintainence schedule and procedure is followed.

take for example the iowa class of battleships with the us navy used during the 90's gulf war.

 

[Big-E]

age of the ship is irrelevant as long as the technology is frequently upgraded and a proper periodical maintainence schedule and procedure is followed.

take for example the iowa class of battleships with the us navy used during the 90's gulf war.

Actually the age of the ship is relevant to it's size. The larger the ship the longer it's life span. The lifespan of the 60,000 ton Iowa is about 50 years. The life span of a ship 4 times smaller is signifigantly less, about 40 years. Trenton only has 5 years of life left of cost worthy maintenance. After that she will be a rupee flushing toilet... swish swish. Why do you think we got rid of her?

 

[kams]

Actually the age of the ship is relevant to it's size. The larger the ship the longer it's life span. The lifespan of the 60,000 ton Iowa is about 50 years. The life span of a ship 4 times smaller is signifigantly less, about 40 years. Trenton only has 5 years of life left of cost worthy maintenance. After that she will be a rupee flushing toilet... swish swish. Why do you think we got rid of her?

Only reason IN acquired Trenton is to gain experience in operating LPD's. Maintaining Trenton is going to be one big headache. I read that deal includes 5 years spares. As for developing indigenous LPD's, Indian shipyards are overbooked with orders for next 10 years or so. Unless some big pvt. players (Like L&T) venture big time in to ship building, it's gonna take a while to get those LPD's.

 

[Big-E]

Only reason IN acquired Trenton is to gain experience in operating LSD's. Maintaining Trenton is going to be one big headache. I read that deal includes 5 years spares.

Yeah, at least IN is going to get SOME kind of use out of her. It's better than the useless proposition of Pakistan getting the Fletcher.:

 

[isthvan]

It looks that ex. USN Austin’s are becoming quite popular… Mexican navy is getting two of them…

Actually Indian navy could get some more life out of them since operational tempo in Indian navy isn’t no were near to USN… And while old they can still be useful and I understand why India decided to by this ship…

On other hand I can’t understand what will Mexico do whit two Austin class ships?

 

[kams]

India, Germany sign defence agreement

India, Germany sign defence agreement

Paving way for bilateral strategic and security cooperation, India and Germany have signed their first-ever defence pact encompassing joint training, technology transfers and co-production of hi-tech military hardware.

The Indo-German Defence Cooperation agreement, which would help New Delhi broadbase its military equipment suppliers to make arms purchases more competitive, was signed late on Wednesday night by Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee and his German Counterpart Franz Josef Jung.

Though both the leaders refused to elaborate what areas of defence the agreement was aimed at, Jung said it would mostly cover exchange of cooperation in the field of Navy and in electronic and sureviellance systems, in which Germany recently had made big breakthroughs.
German defence industries are keen on participating in major Indian defence projects as they feel Berlin is being left out in the race for Indian defence markets by countries like France and Britain.

Germany is also keen to tap Indian expertise in counter terrorism operations, as recently the German army is being deployed overseas in such operations.

Mukherjee on Thursday addressed Chief Executives of major German Defence industries including from HDW, Rheinmetall and European consortium EADS, where he made strong plea for German industries to invest in the Indian defence sector.

Hmmm Stressing on Navy, Electronic and sureviellance systems. Intrestingly, IN is looking to establish a second submarine building line. Rumors of Russian Amur class have been floating around for a while. This may give HDW another chance.

 

[contedicavour]

what about gorshkov ,it has sufferd from boiler room fires and explosion,what about ins delhi which suffered accidents before induction,what about ins tabar the latest russian project 1135.6 krivack class of stealth frigate which collided with merchant tanker and had a deep and long fracture on its sides,all these vessels have suffered and yet have been brought back to life.
that is one great thing about naval ships and submarines ,they might have been sunk and resurrected and yet have successfull and long carriers if they are fully upgraded and properly maintained.

besides i believe the trenton will be used for training,command control and as a hospital ship ,disaster management vessel,indian navy is already conducting exploratory talks with grse-kolkatta for the manufacture of lpd's,which i believe will form the bulk of indian navy's amphibious sea lift capability.

My oh my how could the IN tolerate such big accidents on 2 of its most modern and important ships, a Delhi and a Talwar ???
Regarding Gorshkov it has suffered so many accidents aboard I hope the IN has made sure the Russians patch her up properly, besides extending the flight deck and taking out obsolescent Sandbox SSMs...

cheers

 

[contedicavour]

It looks that ex. USN Austin’s are becoming quite popular… Mexican navy is getting two of them…

Actually Indian navy could get some more life out of them since operational tempo in Indian navy isn’t no were near to USN… And while old they can still be useful and I understand why India decided to by this ship…

On other hand I can’t understand what will Mexico do whit two Austin class ships?

Well the Mexicans must be beefing up their Marines corps... though outside of humanitarian missions in Latin America, I don't see any useful use for such big LPDs. Priority should be to replace the obsolete Bronstein and Knox FFs, not to mention the remaining WW2 vintage DDs...

cheers

 

[aaaditya]

My oh my how could the IN tolerate such big accidents on 2 of its most modern and important ships, a Delhi and a Talwar ???
Regarding Gorshkov it has suffered so many accidents aboard I hope the IN has made sure the Russians patch her up properly, besides extending the flight deck and taking out obsolescent Sandbox SSMs...

cheers

the acccident on delhi occured several years back(even before the ship was commissioned,which was nearly a decade back).

as regarding the talwar ,the captain of the ship was dismissed from service,but the damage was repaired and i believe the ship is back in service.

 

[aaaditya]

India, Germany sign defence agreement







Hmmm Stressing on Navy, Electronic and sureviellance systems. Intrestingly, IN is looking to establish a second submarine building line. Rumors of Russian Amur class have been floating around for a while. This may give HDW another chance.

i wonder if we will see the german u214 as the second submarine line(to be maintained by the larsen and toubro) for the indian navy,u214 lost to scorpene because it was a product offered by a backlisted company (the ban has however been lifted),i believe the u214 acquisition would make a lot of sense ,since india already operates 4 type209 german submarine which can also be upgraded to atleast type212 standard with german assistance as part of an offset deal for the procurement of the u214.

india is no longer interested in russian amur but is now interested in the russo-italian version of the amur.

 

[aaaditya]

Only reason IN acquired Trenton is to gain experience in operating LPD's. Maintaining Trenton is going to be one big headache. I read that deal includes 5 years spares. As for developing indigenous LPD's, Indian shipyards are overbooked with orders for next 10 years or so. Unless some big pvt. players (Like L&T) venture big time in to ship building, it's gonna take a while to get those LPD's.

grsl-kolkatta is currently exploring the possibility of developing a lhd based on the french mistral design,also larsen and toubro has recently set up a shipyard(and has already won export orders worth several 100 million dollars),one of the stated purpose of this shipyard is to manufacture vessles for the indian navy,this shipyard utilizes the dutch ro-ro technology and builds ro-ro vessels.

also 3 new shipyards are coming up ,these shipyards expeted to be fully ready in another 3 years are being set up by private players and hope to take a considerable slice of naval shipbuiding pie.

 

[powerslavenegi]

Sigh

i wonder if we will see the german u214 as the second submarine line(to be maintained by the larsen and toubro) for the indian navy,u214 lost to scorpene because it was a product offered by a backlisted company (the ban has however been lifted),i believe the u214 acquisition would make a lot of sense ,since india already operates 4 type209 german submarine which can also be upgraded to atleast type212 standard with german assistance as part of an offset deal for the procurement of the u214.

india is no longer interested in russian amur but is now interested in the russo-italian version of the amur.

Sigh.........I wish what you said was true however AFAIK IN only intends to have a MLU to 4 of it's U209's(for we would have to maintain our Sub fleet until ATV and all 6 Scorpios are operational) .u214 aint a possibilty for IN raised apprehensions about safety of it's AIP system(based on fuel cells).In my opinion if we compare the cost and the total platform capability customised Scorpene measures upto the U 214.Moreover GOI always prefers deals where Transfer od Technology is a part of the deal(Hence Scorpene was chosen)

 

[swerve]

grsl-kolkatta is currently exploring the possibility of developing a lhd based on the french mistral design,also larsen and toubro has recently set up a shipyard(and has already won export orders worth several 100 million dollars),one of the stated purpose of this shipyard is to manufacture vessles for the indian navy,this shipyard utilizes the dutch ro-ro technology and builds ro-ro vessels.

also 3 new shipyards are coming up ,these shipyards expeted to be fully ready in another 3 years are being set up by private players and hope to take a considerable slice of naval shipbuiding pie.

Aaditya,

where are the Larsen & Toubro & the 3 other new shipyards?

 

[aaaditya]

Sigh.........I wish what you said was true however AFAIK IN only intends to have a MLU to 4 of it's U209's(for we would have to maintain our Sub fleet until ATV and all 6 Scorpios are operational) .u214 aint a possibilty for IN raised apprehensions about safety of it's AIP system(based on fuel cells).In my opinion if we compare the cost and the total platform capability customised Scorpene measures upto the U 214.Moreover GOI always prefers deals where Transfer od Technology is a part of the deal(Hence Scorpene was chosen)

the russo-italian amur is based on the same aip technology as the u214 and despite that india has expressed interest in it.,actually germans are masters at tot,south korea is an example of the country using german technology.germany also offered india technology for the licenced manufacture of the hdw type209 but india wasted it.

germany was also offering india a customised version of the u214 equipped with scalp navale cruise missiles and surface to air missiles.

also i believe pem fuel cells(poly-electro membrane) are considerably safe(at least as compared to mesma which is to be used from the 6th scorpene onwards and which utilises the liquid oxeygen).

 

[aaaditya]

Aaditya,

where are the Larsen & Toubro & the 3 other new shipyards?

larsen and toubro facility is based at hazira,while the other 3 are on the west coast ,i will try to post more details on them.

 

[kams]

Ship building industry in general is having a boom time worlwide, with all major shipyards completely book till 2009. In India L&T, Adani Group and Pawan Kumar Ruia Group are planning to enter Ship Building in a big way. L&T already has orders for 4 ships from Netherlands which will be built in it's Hazira plant. They are actively looking for a new deep water facility, and Kakinada (Andhra Pradesh - East coast) may be chosen.

Pawan Kumar Ruia group has applied to West Bengal Govt for 1500 acres of land (near Kolkatta). Adani group has plans for new shipyard, investing close to Rs 1500 crore.

Apart from these new players, existing shipyards are expanding their capacity. Bharati Shipyard is building its fourth shipyard in Mangalore (west coast). ABG shipyard is setting up a new one in Dahej.

Intrestingly L&T is already booked with orders even before their shipyard is fully operational.

 

[kams]

Sigh.........I wish what you said was true however AFAIK IN only intends to have a MLU to 4 of it's U209's(for we would have to maintain our Sub fleet until ATV and all 6 Scorpios are operational) .u214 aint a possibilty for IN raised apprehensions about safety of it's AIP system(based on fuel cells).In my opinion if we compare the cost and the total platform capability customised Scorpene measures upto the U 214.Moreover GOI always prefers deals where Transfer od Technology is a part of the deal(Hence Scorpene was chosen)

If you look in to recent press releases (regarding both French and German agreements), lot of stress has been laid on 'Joint development' or 'Co-production'. Now, I take this to mean developing customized solutions to suit both partners, not merely TOT. I think NewDelhi wants more bang for her buck .

Submarines: India is currently operating 16 submarines (2 Foxtrot - obselet good only for training and may be fishing , 4 HDW 209, 10 Kilo). By the time first of the Scorpene join IN in 2012, this will be reduced to 7. (source - ADMIRAL ARUN PRAKASH's speach in December 2005). India's 30 year naval procurement policy calls for a force level of 24 submarines (Diesel). India doen't have any option but to go for joint development and production. IN wants to have a second line of submarines (apart from Scorpene) to minimize dependency on one. Rumors suggest it may be a version of Amur being jointly developed by Italy's Fincantieri and Russia's Rubin Naval Design Bureau called S-1000. India was the first country to receive a briefing on the new submarine and rumors say is considering an Italian offer to build six boats for $3.5 billion.

However if HDW makes an attractive proposition, then who knows? The Indian submarine market is huge.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys great news andhra university has signed a memorandum of understanding with drdo for carying out research and development of underwater unmanned vehicles,as well as on a nano-ceramic marine stealth coating which is claimed to reduce the ship or submarine's signature as well as increase the stealth of the hull.

here check out this link:

http://www.hindu.com/2006/09/09/stories/2006090920570300.htm


VISAKHAPATNAM: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) considers universities incubators of technology and is encouraging them to come out with good research projects, said distinguished scientist and Chief Controller of DRDO A. Sivathanu Pillai here on Friday.
"Any technology the DRDO is proud of is not its alone. We have seen the strength of our universities (through their research projects)," observed Dr. Pillai while addressing a meeting after the DRDO and Andhra University signed an MoU on joint research in nano technology, hydrodynamics, naval architecture, acoustics and structures.
The MoU was signed by AU Vice-Chancellor L. Venugopal Reddy and Dr. Pillai in the presence of Director of Naval Science and Technological Laboratory V. Bhujanga Rao, Director of Combat Vehicles Research and Development (Avadi) D. Sundaresan and Director of Naval R and D in DRDO Ratnakar Bhushan, Registrar of AU P. Vijaya Prakash, and others.
Major research

Andhra University too would be involved in the unmanned underwater vehicles, an important project on which DRDO was planning major research, Dr. Pillai said. To start with, the DRDO had given two projects -- development of nano ceramic coating for marine stealth application (to increase the strength of the ship and also reduce its visibility in identification by the enemy) and development of nano lithium ion batteries to Andhra University.
The MoU with Andhra University provided a lot of flexibility in sending funds meant for naval R and D. The funds could be sent directly now and the initiative must come from the university and the DRDO would certainly help in its projects, Dr. Pillai assured. Andhra University faculty could visit the DRDO labs and there was no restriction on the number of projects to be taken up.
DRDO would work with AU on the autonomous vehicles (both ground and underwater types) and set up a nano-lab in the campus.
Prof. Reddy thanked Dr. Pillai and the DRDO for evincing a keen interest in the development of AU. The M.Sc. (nano sciences) and M. Tech (nano technology) programmes were introduced with the help of DRDO. Changes suggested by representatives of DRDO had been incorporated in the syllabus of the courses and this must make the courses acceptable to the industry and academicia, he said.
Fellowships

Commodore Bhushan said that the Naval Research Board had recently announced fellowships for PG students and the Andhra University students too could take up small projects under this programme.
A senior professor of AU College of Engineering P.S.N. Raju and a scientist from DRDO Venkateswara Rao would act as coordinators for the programmes under the MoU. Principals of campus colleges R. Venkata Rao, J.V. Prabhakara Rao, several senior professors of AU, senior officials of DRDO and others were present.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys another great news india's nstl has successfully developed an indigenous advanced integrated anti submarine warfare system,this system is fully integrated,modular,upgradeable and has been developed at a cost of 40million rupees while a comparable system would cost about 300 million rupees.it is claimed to be a world class product.

here check out this link:

Anti-submarine warfare system handed over to Navy

Special Correspondent
Developed by the Naval Science and Technological Laboratory Induction of the ASW equipment would help integrate indigenous weapons and decoy systems while supporting the existing inventory



VISAKHAPATNAM: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on Friday handed over the integrated anti-submarine warfare (ASW) equipment to the Navy.
Chief Controller, Defence R&D, A. Sivathanu Pillai, handed over the equipment to Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief of Eastern Naval Command and Chief of Naval Staff designate Sureesh Mehta during a brief function on board INS Ranjit.
"The system is developed by the Naval Science and Technological Laboratory (NSTL) here and is equipped with a very advanced software. It has the ability to detect enemy vessels while being underwater and also fire torpedoes or missiles," Dr. Pillai said. Induction of the ASW equipment into the Navy would pave the way for smooth integration of indigenous weapons and decoy systems, while supporting the existing the inventory held by the Navy, he said.
Vice-Admiral Sureesh Mehta inaugurated the system by powering it up. He congratulated the project team on successfully developing the system.
NSTL Director V. Bhujanga Rao said the Laboratory had developed the system at a cost of Rs.4 crores while a similar system of foreign make would cost Rs.30 crores. Project Director C.D. Malleswar said the system was modular and re-configurable with the state-of-the-art hardware and software using open architecture. Bharat Electronics Ltd. of Bangalore, which produced the system, received order from the Navy to produce two more systems. Director of Naval R&D in DRDO Ratnakar Bhushan, senior scientists of the NSTL, General Manager of BEL A.A. Mohan Ram and others were present.

 

[harryriedl]

india has been useing old ships for a long time such as hermes aka vikrrant and the ealier collosose class carrier which they both kept in servis for a very long time.