Why? Unless Indonesia or Australia become involved directly or through pacts, we are observers.
Indian Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter dragonfire
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On 11 Jan 2020, a prototype of the naval Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) ‘trapped’ on the Indian Navy’s sole aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya in the Arabian Sea. Hailed as a major milestone, the Indian Navy has declared, ‘With this feat, the indigenously developed niche technologies specific to deck based fighter operations have been proven, which will now pave the way to develop and manufacture the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter for the Indian Navy.’ See: HISTORY: India’s LCA Makes 1st Landing On Aircraft Carrier Deck
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John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The article states the Indian navy wants a twin engine, either the Rafale or Superhoret so it with be interesting to see if India will opt to continue with a locally developed twin engine jet. Since the Rafale will be in service with the Indian airforce perhaps this gives the Rafale an advantage. As Dassault is a partner in the French-German future jet (with a naval version planned) inviting India in might be an option as well. India might even consider a partnership with Europe on a carrier.
Doesn’t the Indian navy already operate 45?Mig 29K/KUBs? Correction: it should be 42 having lost 3 to accidents.
The Indian Navy operates 2 squadrons of the MiG-29K, and was in fact the launch customer of the type. The last of the Mig 29s were ordered in 2010. Why would the Indians want yet another type in naval service?
It seems the plan is to develop the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF), to which the DRDO has laid down a six-year timeframe to first prototype flight. Are you saying that the TEDBF is doomed to long delays or failure and the Indians need to buy naval fighters from abroad or co-develop one with Europe?
The Indian Navy operates 2 squadrons of the MiG-29K, and was in fact the launch customer of the type. The last of the Mig 29s were ordered in 2010. Why would the Indians want yet another type in naval service?
- In June 2014, a MiG-29K suffered damage to its undercarriage during a hard landing on aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya.
- On 3 Jan 2018, a MiG-29K aircraft overshot the runway and caught fire during takeoff at INS Hansa naval air base in Goa, India. The aircraft was engulfed in flames but the pilot was safe.
- On 16 Nov 2019, a MiG-29KUB trainer of Indian Navy crashed near INS Hansa, a naval air base in Goa. The aircraft was hit by a flock of birds and the collision led to a fire in the right engine and the left engine failing, both crewmembers ejected safely.
It seems the plan is to develop the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF), to which the DRDO has laid down a six-year timeframe to first prototype flight. Are you saying that the TEDBF is doomed to long delays or failure and the Indians need to buy naval fighters from abroad or co-develop one with Europe?
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The Indian navy isn't happy with the maintenance issues they've encountered with the MIG 29K or Russia's response to those issues. They want a new carrier aircraft.
Indian Navy wants Russian MiG-29K jets to be ‘ruggedized’
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Each STOBAR aircraft carrier operated by the Indian Navy can take about 20 fighters and the lack of reliability for the Mig-29K fleet is not a show stopper yet for Indian naval aviation. It will be a more serious issue due to naval fighter shortage once India’s first indigenous aircraft carrier Vikrant is complete. The pre-commissioning unit, INS Vikrant is currently under phase three which involves setting to work of machinery and other equipment and it is likely to be commissioned as a 260m-long and 60m-wide STOBAR carrier between 2021 to 2022. See: Indian Navy’s first indigenous carrier Vikrant under phase III construction
Indian vanity and its inflexible bureaucracy will get in the way of logic and reason until the issue is way pass critical before acting. Despite the reported problems with Mig-29K reliability, I am not expecting the procurement of a new aircraft type for the navy, as a complement or replacement to the Mig-29K anytime soon. I also note in your linked article, Anastasia Kravchenkov, a representative of Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG, said in official correspondence: “Neither we, nor our partners have received any official claims about operational problems with the Russian MiG aircrafts.” Arun Prakash, a retired Indian Navy admiral and former service chief, was more critical of the situation: “The truth is that the Indian Navy has virtually funded the development of this aircraft (which the Russian Navy is now adopting), and if the Russians had any ethics they would ensure that every shortcoming is fixed free of cost.”
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John Fedup
The Bunker Group
@OPSSG ....It is my understanding that both the navy and airforce have renewal plans and in the airforce’s case Boeing is expected to offer the SH. Dassault already has a partial order with the Indian airforce. I would think both companies could offer an incentive for a combined purchase. I agree the Indian bureaucracy could be a big issue but the counter to this is India’s fear of China’s increasing presence which may prompt change if the MIG-29K has problems. Certainly both Boeing and Dassault can quickly deliver proven jets.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Xavier interview with Naval Group on their proposal for Indian Navy Next Gen SSK program (P-75I). The proposal is again Barracuda conventional Submarine, and seems similar with What they offer to Dutch program for Walrus replacement. All design have Pump Jet replacing propeller.
After the deal with Australia, seems now Naval Group begin to sell similar Barakuda derived design for conventional Submarine for Nation that need bigger conventional subs.
On 24 Feb 2020, the Indian Navy entered into a contract for 24 MH-60Rs naval helicopters, the Kongsberg Naval Strike Missiles and Raytheon MK54 torpedoes for US$2.6 billion during Trump’s two day state visit to India. The MH-60R deal will be India’s first contract with the United States after it signed the Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA) in 2018. As a result, the Indian MH-60Rs will be fitted with a variety of encrypted voice, transponder and communications equipment that has been, as a matter of policy, held off aircraft supplied before the COMCASA. See: BAE Systems APKWS Guided Rockets Debut In Indian Service On Naval MH-60Rs
Refitted ahead of schedule by India’s state-owned Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL), the Indian Navy will soon transfer Kilo-class submarine INS Sindhuvir to Myanmar. The Russian-built attack submarine will be the Myanmar Navy’s first amidst long running plans by the force to develop an underwater arm. HSL, which received the submarine for the refit in 2017, delivered the submarine back to the Indian Navy on 21 Feb 2020 — ahead of time, says the shipyard.
The transfer of INS Sindhuvir to Myanmar, is expected to take place quietly by the end of March 2020. With the loss of INS Sindhurakshak in a dockyard explosion in 2013, the Indian Navy will be left with eight Kilo-class submarines after INS Sindhuvir sails off to Myanmar. The Indian Navy also operates four Type 209 submarines and the first two of six Kalvari-class (Scorpene) boats.
Refitted ahead of schedule by India’s state-owned Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL), the Indian Navy will soon transfer Kilo-class submarine INS Sindhuvir to Myanmar. The Russian-built attack submarine will be the Myanmar Navy’s first amidst long running plans by the force to develop an underwater arm. HSL, which received the submarine for the refit in 2017, delivered the submarine back to the Indian Navy on 21 Feb 2020 — ahead of time, says the shipyard.
The transfer of INS Sindhuvir to Myanmar, is expected to take place quietly by the end of March 2020. With the loss of INS Sindhurakshak in a dockyard explosion in 2013, the Indian Navy will be left with eight Kilo-class submarines after INS Sindhuvir sails off to Myanmar. The Indian Navy also operates four Type 209 submarines and the first two of six Kalvari-class (Scorpene) boats.
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
India cuts steel for its first locally-built Project 11356 frigate - Naval News
India’s Goa Shipyard Limited (GSL) cut a steel plate for its first locally built Project 11356 frigate on September 21. The official ceremony of steel cutting was being live-streamed on the same day by the Ishwari Digital media platform.
www.navalnews.com
First cut steel for Indian Navy locally build type 11356 Frigates. Considering Chinese and Pakistan projects and their cooperation in Indies Ocean, perhaps this type of Frigates will evolve from current 4 plan.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
India’s New Aircraft Carrier IAC 1 - INS Vikrant Passes Basin Trials - Naval News
India's indigenous aircraft carrier 1 (IAC 1) INS Vikrant successfully passed basin trials today at Cochin Shipyard Limited in Kochi. According to official Indian MoD sources, the sea trials of the aircraft carrier are expected to start in early 2021.
www.navalnews.com
5 years after launch, and only begin basin trial and not sea trials yet. No wonder Chinese Ten Cents army rediculle Indian Carrier program in most Defense thread out there.
Wondering though if Indian Navy will stick with Mig 29K. Seems I see pictures of Boeing shown Shornet capabilities for Stobar in front off Indian delegates.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
How mature is the STOBAR-version design of the F-18? The INS Vikrant is planned to enter operation in end 2021-2022, and it takes normally several years to design, test and certify large modifications.... also if the Indian Navy will become the only costumer of this version, it will be unattractive for the manufacturer.India’s New Aircraft Carrier IAC 1 - INS Vikrant Passes Basin Trials - Naval News
India's indigenous aircraft carrier 1 (IAC 1) INS Vikrant successfully passed basin trials today at Cochin Shipyard Limited in Kochi. According to official Indian MoD sources, the sea trials of the aircraft carrier are expected to start in early 2021.
5 years after launch, and only begin basin trial and not sea trials yet. No wonder Chinese Ten Cents army rediculle Indian Carrier program in most Defense thread out there.
Wondering though if Indian Navy will stick with Mig 29K. Seems I see pictures of Boeing shown Shornet capabilities for Stobar in front off Indian delegates.
I may be wrong, but aren't the Indian's building a CATOBAR carrier as well? I thought that they were very interested in the USN EMALS system.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
The
The Indians are actually planning for two aircraft carriers from own design, the first one will be INS Vikrant (the STOBAR one) and the second vessel INS Vishal, also known as Indigenous Aircraft Carrier 2 (IAC-2). The second one will be significantly larger with many differences from the first one, with the most important one that it will be a CATOBAR-carrier.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
F/A-18 Super Hornet Is Now Undergoing Ski Jump Launch Trials For The Indian Navy
The Boeing fighter jet is vying for an Indian Navy contract and that service only has aircraft carriers with ski jumps at present.
www.thedrive.com
This's one of the articles that talk on India interest for Shornet also related to potential of finding Aircraft that can work both in STOBAR and CATOBAR.
Basically Mig 29K is build for STOBAR as Super Hornet build for CATOBAR. What Boeing want to shown is the application of Shornet in STOBAR environment too. If India next carrier will be CATOBAR, then it's going to be difficult for Mig 29K to catch up. Considering Russia has so far shown no development toward catapult launch system. Thus I think it will be difficult for Russia to develop their Fighter toward catapult launch application, as they don't have facilities on that.
Seems SAAB effort to build Navalised Gripen also aim for STOBAR (forgot the article that shown SAAB Navalised concept). They will also I believe will found challenge to provide Navalised Gripen than can work in both STOBAR and CATOBAR environment.
All this's due to specialise facilities of CATOBAR testing. I don't think US will open their facilities for MIG and SAAB to develop CATOBAR capabilities. Unless they can work with China or French. Long shot on that considering French also working on the similar deal for Navalised Rafale.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
So actually the most practical would be more MiG-29K for the STOBAR carrier (IAC-1) and the Rafale M for the CATOBAR (IAC-2) one.F/A-18 Super Hornet Is Now Undergoing Ski Jump Launch Trials For The Indian Navy
The Boeing fighter jet is vying for an Indian Navy contract and that service only has aircraft carriers with ski jumps at present.
This's one of the articles that talk on India interest for Shornet also related to potential of finding Aircraft that can work both in STOBAR and CATOBAR.
Basically Mig 29K is build for STOBAR as Super Hornet build for CATOBAR. What Boeing want to shown is the application of Shornet in STOBAR environment too. If India next carrier will be CATOBAR, then it's going to be difficult for Mig 29K to catch up. Considering Russia has so far shown no development toward catapult launch system. Thus I think it will be difficult for Russia to develop their Fighter toward catapult launch application, as they don't have facilities on that.
Seems SAAB effort to build Navalised Gripen also aim for STOBAR (forgot the article that shown SAAB Navalised concept). They will also I believe will found challenge to provide Navalised Gripen than can work in both STOBAR and CATOBAR environment.
All this's due to specialise facilities of CATOBAR testing. I don't think US will open their facilities for MIG and SAAB to develop CATOBAR capabilities. Unless they can work with China or French. Long shot on that considering French also working on the similar deal for Navalised Rafale.
Both are already in Indian service, and India doesnt need to wait until the development and testing is finished for the navalised version of the Saab 39 and STOBAR-version F-18.
If the F-18 Shornet is available in a couple of years, it will be a strong candidate, but the biggest threat will be a navalized LCA Tejas.
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
You're correct, Rafale C that's already in India service. Rafale M still in contention just like Shornet to replace/complement Mig-29K within India Navy. Both of them seems using similar strategy on showing their plane are the ones that capable for Both STOBAR and CATOBAR. Something that other contenders did not have the capabilities yet.
Although being talk before by Indian Media and Fans Boys in the forums, F-35C seems not something that US serious offering to India.
Rafale M still not in the service, but with Rafale C already in service clearly it provides advantages on logistical sides. Compared new type of Aircraft like Shornet or Navalised Gripen.
However the article and other Indian Media seems indicating India interest in Shornet come from Boeing campaign that it can do both STOBAR and CATOBAR. Something that Dasault also claim similar thing for Rafale M.
If Indian Navy find an acceptable Fighter that can work out on Both carrier launch models, based on the media reports seems it's something that they will choose. Especially if India next carrier turn out to be CATOBAR.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Yes im sorry with "both are already in Indian service" i mean the MiG-29K with the navy and the normal Rafale C with the airforce...
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Janes talks about Mk IV and Mk VI LCUs, seems that the Mk.VI is a very new type of Indian-made LCUs, i can not find it on internet, but looking to the photo i think it is a Shardul-class LST.
It is remarkable that a navy with the size of the Indian navy and with the responsibility to protect the Nicobaren and Andamanen only is in the possession of 8 LCUs, 8 LSTs and one LPD.
India demonstrates amphibious assault capabilities of Andaman and Nicobar Command
The Indian Armed Forces’ Andaman and Nicobar Command has held a demonstration of its amphibious assault capabilities, including with a new landing craft type that has been built specifically for the ...
www.janes.com
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