the air launched brahmos would be a modified version of the existing brahmos,being smaller and lighter(2.5 tons as opposed to 3 tons),but having the same range and warhead.powerslavenegi said:Well Brahmos in it's current size cannot be carried by Su-30,only tu-22m or t-160 blackjack would be able to carry it,Having said that A missile of length 8.4 Meters and a diameter of 60cm would have to be scaled down considerably to make it compatible with Su-30 MKI(preferably a missile similar in confuguration to Exocet AM-39).
Indian Missiles & Nuclear Development News and Discussions
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no suryaaa the reduction in weight will not in any way reduce the range ,for this you have to understand the principles behind the ram jet propulsion system.suryaaa said:in orber to fit brahmos in mki brahmos must under go size reduction ,is that mean brahmos will have reduced range from its current range of 290 km.
will try to explain to you as briefly as i can.
ram jet engines use the atmospheric air which enters the engine through the air inlets to oxidise with the fuel(to burn with the fuel) and to produce the energy(thrust) required for the flight.the fuel can be either be liquid or solid(it is kerosene in case of the brahmos).
however for the ram jet engine to function the missile has to fly at a speed of mach0.95 or higher,only when this speed is achieved can sufficient air enter into the inlets and and can be directed into the engine to burn the fuel,once the burning process is started the missile would be self sustaining.
when the missile is launched from the ground,a solid or liquid fuelled booster ,or the missiles own fuel supply is used to accelerate the missile to the supersonic speeds,once the speed is achieved the principle of ram jet gets activated and the missile sustains itself.
you also have to take into consideration the fact that there is a greater air density on the ground(which reduces as the altitude increases),this airdensity causes a drag(the air resistance to a body moving through it) which in turn increases the fuel consumption.
but when a missile is launched from the air it does not require a booster or additional fuel supply to achieve the supersonic initial velocity(speed),this is because the aircraft is already moving at a high speed(say from 0.9 to 2 mach),this gives the initial velocity required by the missile to collect the sufficient amount of air for the combustion process(fuel burning process),also as i have mentioned earlier the airdensity and the drag on a body is reduced as the altitude is increased.
so a missile launched at a height of 20000 feet-50000 feet will face less resistance (drag) from the air flow,and hence the fuel consumption is considerably reduced.
so all that they would be doing for the air launched brahmos is to remove the booster thus reducing the weight,the original brahmos missile if launched from the air will actually have a longer range ,though will be heavier at 3 tons.
thank you for giving such a detailed info on this.
you said that brahmos uses kerosene , can you give an account on the diff fuels used in missiles.
so by removing the booster weight of misssile can be reduced,so that means
brahgmos supersonic speed is achived oinly by its ramjet propulsion system.
like ramjat is their any other propulsion system.
you said that brahmos uses kerosene , can you give an account on the diff fuels used in missiles.
so by removing the booster weight of misssile can be reduced,so that means
brahgmos supersonic speed is achived oinly by its ramjet propulsion system.
like ramjat is their any other propulsion system.
unfortunately i dont have that kind of knowledge,though i will try to gather some information on the propellants used on the prithvi and the agni series of missiles and get back to you.suryaaa said:
more superior to ramjet is the scramjet used on the hypersonic missiles,in this case the missile has to be accelerated to high supersonic speed(machy 2 or mach3) for this propulsion system to work(the principle is mostly the same),however these missiles have speeds of upto mach10(11880kms/hr) as opposed to the maximum of upto mach3 or mach5 of the ramjet missiles.
the brahmos is to be testfired from the sukhoi su30mki early/mid next year.Big-E said:
the missile's weight will be reduced to 2.5 tons though the range and the warhead will remain the same.
initial plan was to modify the su30mki to carry 3 missiles(2 underwing and 1 underbody),the three missiles would together weigh about 7.5 tons(the su-30mki can currently carry 8-10 tonsof load).
however the airforce wanted the existing su30mki's to be equipped initially with only 1 brahmos missile(underwing),with further modifications to be carried out as the missile and the aircraft evolve.
powerslavenegi
New Member
Load capacity
I have heard Russian Fighter's inability of carrying the same amount of load as there western counterparts,I would like to know how much load F-15c and F-22 Raptor can carry.Aaditya the load of 8-10 tonnes which you mentioned ,does that include external fuel tanks too.And in case IAF opts for 1 brahmos per Su-30 then they should go for underbody(carriage) rather than underwing confuguration.aaaditya said:
external fuel tanks is just one of the payload options,you can use the same pylons to carry weapons also.powerslavenegi said:I have heard Russian Fighter's inability of carrying the same amount of load as there western counterparts,I would like to know how much load F-15c and F-22 Raptor can carry.Aaditya the load of 8-10 tonnes which you mentioned ,does that include external fuel tanks too.And in case IAF opts for 1 brahmos per Su-30 then they should go for underbody(carriage) rather than underwing confuguration.
the su30mki has inflight refuelling(it has already shown the ability to refuel from an aircraft)this meens that the su30mki does not need to carry external fuel tanks(also known as drop tanks or underwing tanks) and instead use those pylons to carry weapons.
hey guys here is an interesting article ,seems that indian army plans to export missiles in a big way,brahmos misisle is to be exported(iam sure vietnam will be the lead customer),india had earler exported the milan missiles and now iam sure the milan 2 missiles and the flame launchers can be exported.
also this article mentions the development of a new precision guided missile and a new family of precision guided bombs.
here check out this link:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1518418.cms
New frontiers: India all set to export missiles
PUNE: India’s foray into the global armaments world as a supplier, with its supersonic cruise missile, the BrahMos, will happen by December ’06. “We should be able to announce the overseas sale of the weapon by the end of this calendar year,” A Sivathanu Pillai, chief controller (R&D), DRDO and managing director and CEO, BrahMos Aerospace, told reporters.
Since this is a joint venture between the Indian and Russian governments, sale to other countries has to be cleared by both, he pointed out.
Meanwhile, the Indian Navy has accepted the BrahMos system, which will be deployed on the three Talwar class destroyers being built by the Russians.
“We are producing the systems to meet the Indian Navy’s requirements, since the Navy has decided that the BrahMos will be its major weapon for all future ships, whether these are built in India or abroad,” Dr Pillai remarked. Referring to the interest generated in countries in the Far East and other parts of the world for the supersonic cruise missile, Dr Pillai said these countries have no equivalent precision strike weapon.
Integrated trials for a dummy missile on an aircraft are scheduled for this year. This will see the airborne version of the BrahMos for deployment on the SU-30s of the Indian Air Force (IAF). Next year, the avionics will be established.
The changes needed for an aircraft-based weapon system will lead to a weight reduction of nearly 2.5 times its current weight since it will not need additional boosters to get airborne.
Dr Pillai ruled out any other products from the JV.
“The joint venture was created exclusively for the BrahMos and we have created variants. It is now a multi-platform, multi-target system. We have to undertake trials on submarines and air-based systems. This will create further variants,” he observed. The 290-km range, liquid fuel charged, 3-tonne missile carries a warhead of 200 kg conventional explosives. The cruise missile is a weapon of first strike, being a tactical weapon.
The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) will launch two “futuristic” programmes during the current Plan period, Dr Pillai said. He was referring to a precision guided missile (PGM) programme to be undertaken at the Pune-based Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE).
“The PGM is for the future when intelligent and smart weapons will be needed. Future wars will be rapid, and the weapons will be precise, using the minimum of manpower. So, the ARDE is focused on two programmes, the PGM and the soldier assisted system, where everything from the soldier’s clothes to the weapons used will be embedded with sensors,” Dr Pillai said, sketching a sci-fi- like scenario.
Among the smart weapons will be the precision guided munitions (PGM), which will hit the target precisely to do the maximum damage. This is at a technical demonstration stage, Dr BS Sarma, director, ARDE, stated.
The country-wide laboratories of the DRDO are working on various aspects of the two projects.
Earlier, speaking at the inaugural session of a national seminar on advances in electroceramics, Dr Pillai stressed the need for India to be part of the global developments.
also this article mentions the development of a new precision guided missile and a new family of precision guided bombs.
here check out this link:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1518418.cms
New frontiers: India all set to export missiles
PUNE: India’s foray into the global armaments world as a supplier, with its supersonic cruise missile, the BrahMos, will happen by December ’06. “We should be able to announce the overseas sale of the weapon by the end of this calendar year,” A Sivathanu Pillai, chief controller (R&D), DRDO and managing director and CEO, BrahMos Aerospace, told reporters.
Since this is a joint venture between the Indian and Russian governments, sale to other countries has to be cleared by both, he pointed out.
Meanwhile, the Indian Navy has accepted the BrahMos system, which will be deployed on the three Talwar class destroyers being built by the Russians.
“We are producing the systems to meet the Indian Navy’s requirements, since the Navy has decided that the BrahMos will be its major weapon for all future ships, whether these are built in India or abroad,” Dr Pillai remarked. Referring to the interest generated in countries in the Far East and other parts of the world for the supersonic cruise missile, Dr Pillai said these countries have no equivalent precision strike weapon.
Integrated trials for a dummy missile on an aircraft are scheduled for this year. This will see the airborne version of the BrahMos for deployment on the SU-30s of the Indian Air Force (IAF). Next year, the avionics will be established.
The changes needed for an aircraft-based weapon system will lead to a weight reduction of nearly 2.5 times its current weight since it will not need additional boosters to get airborne.
Dr Pillai ruled out any other products from the JV.
“The joint venture was created exclusively for the BrahMos and we have created variants. It is now a multi-platform, multi-target system. We have to undertake trials on submarines and air-based systems. This will create further variants,” he observed. The 290-km range, liquid fuel charged, 3-tonne missile carries a warhead of 200 kg conventional explosives. The cruise missile is a weapon of first strike, being a tactical weapon.
The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) will launch two “futuristic” programmes during the current Plan period, Dr Pillai said. He was referring to a precision guided missile (PGM) programme to be undertaken at the Pune-based Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE).
“The PGM is for the future when intelligent and smart weapons will be needed. Future wars will be rapid, and the weapons will be precise, using the minimum of manpower. So, the ARDE is focused on two programmes, the PGM and the soldier assisted system, where everything from the soldier’s clothes to the weapons used will be embedded with sensors,” Dr Pillai said, sketching a sci-fi- like scenario.
Among the smart weapons will be the precision guided munitions (PGM), which will hit the target precisely to do the maximum damage. This is at a technical demonstration stage, Dr BS Sarma, director, ARDE, stated.
The country-wide laboratories of the DRDO are working on various aspects of the two projects.
Earlier, speaking at the inaugural session of a national seminar on advances in electroceramics, Dr Pillai stressed the need for India to be part of the global developments.
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Hey aditya,
you mentioned the fuels for the Agni and Prithvi ballistic missiles. So here they are :-
Prithvi I- IRFNA (which is red fuming nitric acid with an additive), Xylidiene and Triethylamine. So all these fuels are liquid.
Prithvi II- Same as Prithvi I
Prithvi III- Hydroxy Terminated Poly- Butiedene (HTPB), Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) and Aluminium. This is a solid propellant mixture.
As for Agni,
Agni I, Agni II and Agni IIAT use the same composition as Prithvi III, of HTPB, AP and Al.
I confirmed these from Bharat-Rakshak.
You know after u mentioned all that about the ramjet, maybe they should plan to integrate it with an aircraft and we won't need the delay of Kaveri
And I want to know, what the status of the Trishul is. I remember a trial being performed recently, but BR lists it as a Technoloy Demonstrator ???
you mentioned the fuels for the Agni and Prithvi ballistic missiles. So here they are :-
Prithvi I- IRFNA (which is red fuming nitric acid with an additive), Xylidiene and Triethylamine. So all these fuels are liquid.
Prithvi II- Same as Prithvi I
Prithvi III- Hydroxy Terminated Poly- Butiedene (HTPB), Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) and Aluminium. This is a solid propellant mixture.
As for Agni,
Agni I, Agni II and Agni IIAT use the same composition as Prithvi III, of HTPB, AP and Al.
I confirmed these from Bharat-Rakshak.
You know after u mentioned all that about the ramjet, maybe they should plan to integrate it with an aircraft and we won't need the delay of Kaveri
And I want to know, what the status of the Trishul is. I remember a trial being performed recently, but BR lists it as a Technoloy Demonstrator ???
thanks for the info man,vrus said:Hey aditya,
you mentioned the fuels for the Agni and Prithvi ballistic missiles. So here they are :-
Prithvi I- IRFNA (which is red fuming nitric acid with an additive), Xylidiene and Triethylamine. So all these fuels are liquid.
Prithvi II- Same as Prithvi I
Prithvi III- Hydroxy Terminated Poly- Butiedene (HTPB), Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) and Aluminium. This is a solid propellant mixture.
As for Agni,
Agni I, Agni II and Agni IIAT use the same composition as Prithvi III, of HTPB, AP and Al.
I confirmed these from Bharat-Rakshak.
You know after u mentioned all that about the ramjet, maybe they should plan to integrate it with an aircraft and we won't need the delay of Kaveri
And I want to know, what the status of the Trishul is. I remember a trial being performed recently, but BR lists it as a Technoloy Demonstrator ???
by the way a ramjet is not suitable for the lca ,since the lca and definitely the pilot will not be able to take that load,anyway dont worry the avatar hyperplane will fullfill your dreams.
the first problem was failure to achieve surge free operations,this was rectified.zoolander said:
the current problem i believe is that it is not being able to build up the required maximum thrust (83.5kn),this requires advanced technology concepts like single crystal blade technology which india does not have(india currently uses unidirectionally solidified blade technology).
that is the main reason why india has selected the safran group of snecma as the project consultants under a 1 billion dollar deal,safran will carry out an audit,will train indian engineers and assist in designing and upgrading the engine and all its variants.
powerslavenegi
New Member
Kaveri Engine
Hey Adityaa can you list the specifications of Kaveri,as well as how does it compare with it's Russian and US engines in same class(by weight)aaaditya said:
all i know right now is that it is supposed to weigh 1.1 tons and the efforts are on to reduce its weight to 1 ton,it is in the same category as the russian rd series and the us ge-f-404 series.powerslavenegi said:
however since it is based on the ge-f-404 series iam sure it would have very low ir signature,since the ge-f-404 had very low ir signature.
the thrust was expected to be around 52.5 kn dry and 83.5 with reheat,the core engone is known as the kabini.
there is also marine variant in the concept stage for use on the ships.
i will try to find more details and get back to you.
well here is a link containing information and images of the various components of the kaveri engine.powerslavenegi said:
here check out this link:
http://www.drdo.org/products/kaveri.htm
well here are the specifications:
Kaveri-Special Characteristics
Air-mass flow:78 kg/sBy-pass ratio:0.16Overall pressure ratio:21.5Turbine entry temperature:1487-1700 KMaximum dry thrust:52 kN (5302 kg)Maximum dry SFC:0.78 kg/hr/kgAfter burner maximum power thrust:81 kN (8260 kg)After burner maximum power SFC:2.03 kg/hr/kgThrust-to-weight ratio:7.8Application:Indian LCA
http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/feb/06aero.htm
guys looks like our agni -3 is finaly ready for testing
this will give real headache to china.
here is the link ;
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_006011.php
India's longest-range missile ready for test launch: official
India's longest-range ballistic missile is ready for a test launch, the country's top military scientist announced Sunday.
Agni-III ready for launch
Special Correspondent
NEW DELHI: Intermediate-range ballistic missile Agni-III, with a range of over 3,000 km, is technically ready for launch, according to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) chief M. Natarajan. This is the first authoritative observation on the status of the missile after August 2004 when the then DRDO chief V. K. Atre said there were "not many technical issues'' to be sorted out.
Dr. Natarajan said while all technical issues had been sorted out, the DRDO was waiting for the Government's nod to conduct the first test.
this will give real headache to china.
here is the link ;
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_006011.php
India's longest-range missile ready for test launch: official
India's longest-range ballistic missile is ready for a test launch, the country's top military scientist announced Sunday.
Agni-III ready for launch
Special Correspondent
NEW DELHI: Intermediate-range ballistic missile Agni-III, with a range of over 3,000 km, is technically ready for launch, according to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) chief M. Natarajan. This is the first authoritative observation on the status of the missile after August 2004 when the then DRDO chief V. K. Atre said there were "not many technical issues'' to be sorted out.
Dr. Natarajan said while all technical issues had been sorted out, the DRDO was waiting for the Government's nod to conduct the first test.
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As far as I know, this isn't the first time this has been announced. I think it was said some 5/6 months ago too. It is seemingly clear that the test is being delayed for obvious political reasons due to the political backlash that might occur along with possible isolation from other nations like in late 90s. But the situation might be different now, since the indian economy is stroger and more foreign nations depend on or are related in someway to it...
What on EARTH has happened to the Sagarika ? No news at all.....
What on EARTH has happened to the Sagarika ? No news at all.....
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