Indian ADS aircraft carrier

[Jason_kiwi]

Jason, you're really stretching the patience of some of the Mods (incl myself).

One liners that are of the calibre of the above comment are insufficient in terms of quality of post. They're also things that could be researched with a minimum of effort.

We welcome posts and input, but we draw the line quite briskly on things that look like "post whoring".

You need to make some effort or you run the risk of having posts nuked. We expect this of everyone. You have been on here long enough to have seen what passes as acceptable standards of posting.

I have only been here 20 days and i don't go on every day so i haven't been here to long. I am now getting the hang of.

 

[slim]

Hello everyone I am a new member.

I do not see the rationale for indian ADS the way it is. First of all I feel for such a large ship it does not seem likely it will possess any credible fixed wing AEW aircrft. I feel when so much resources have already gone into a ship it should atleast have been furnished with the capability to accomodate a fixed wing AEW. I feel instead of going for such a lopsided project money was better spent on SSNs or maybe a more versatile larger or Steam catapult capable ADS that could launch larger AEW aircraft. Also I feel the maritime variant of SU-30 combined with a landborne awacs/aew aircraft can easily handle the areas where one might expect ADS to deploy.

 

[slim]

Unless maybe in the future the Indian Navy deploys shipborne UAV based AEW platforms that can be accomodated on the ADS. But is that possible?

 

[Jtimes2]

The following website says that the ADS will have P-3 C s and IL-38 s for naval recon.

http://www.hindu.com/2005/03/21/stories/2005032108901200.htm

Any others ?

Ha ha ha; I think Mays and Orions are just a taaaaaddddd bit too big for any carrier. There is a special STOL version of the E-2 Hawkeye that was offered last year, it could take off from both the ADS and the rebuilt Gorshkov. The Indians decided against buying it, for the time being.

 

[aaaditya]

Unless maybe in the future the Indian Navy deploys shipborne UAV based AEW platforms that can be accomodated on the ADS. But is that possible?

indian navy had evaluated and rejected the us hawkeye2000 which was offered for its gorshkov and ads,since this aircraft could be launched only with reduced fuel thereby affecting the mission endurance.

most propably india will deploy an indigenised and customise version of the awacs being currently developed by cabs for the indian airforce ,mounted either on the saras-s (indigenously developed light turboprop transport aircraft) or the original erj-145 being used for the iaf variant.

untill them the aew requirements for the carriers will be met by the ka-32 aew helicopter whose oko(eye) radar has a detection range in excess of 300 kms and by the israeli designed hunter and seeker unmanned aerial vehicles which are currently deployed at the uav base in haldia,but which can also be accomodated and launched for the two carriers.:smash

 

[slim]

indian navy had evaluated and rejected the us hawkeye2000 which was offered for its gorshkov and ads,since this aircraft could be launched only with reduced fuel thereby affecting the mission endurance.

most propably india will deploy an indigenised and customise version of the awacs being currently developed by cabs for the indian airforce ,mounted either on the saras-s (indigenously developed light turboprop transport aircraft) or the original erj-145 being used for the iaf variant.

untill them the aew requirements for the carriers will be met by the ka-32 aew helicopter whose oko(eye) radar has a detection range in excess of 300 kms and by the israeli designed hunter and seeker unmanned aerial vehicles which are currently deployed at the uav base in haldia,but which can also be accomodated and launched for the two carriers.:smash

The Hunter and Seeker UAVs you mentioned do they have the ability to detect aerial threats at meaningfully far ranges which gives the carrier borne aricraft enogh time to intercept them

 

[slim]

I just feel if the PN get hold of something like the Klub AShm the Ads will be very vulnerable absent a very long range and long endurance AEW platform. And keeping in mind that China already deploys the klub, PN will very likely have something like the Klub in very short time

 

[kams]

The Hunter and Seeker UAVs you mentioned do they have the ability to detect aerial threats at meaningfully far ranges which gives the carrier borne aricraft enogh time to intercept them

I don't think Indian navy operates Hunter or Seeker UAV. Seeker is made by Denel of South Africa and not Israel. IN uses Heron and Searcher II. I do not think these are configured for detection of Aerial threats. They are equipped with either standard MOSP (TV/IR) or EL/M 2055 radar for air- surface recon. Primary AEW platform will be KA31 (Helix B ...Not KA32 which is not a AEW platform) helicopter. This has detection range of 300 Km.

As for the KLUB, PN has no chance of getting one..India has them. PN has Harpoons. And indian carriers are fitted with Barak missiles to take care of Missile threats. India and Israel are jointly developing Barak II, which has longer duration.

Indian Navy is also negotiating for shore based AEW platform. P-8 may be a possibility.

 

[swerve]

im not suggesting that the us navy is planning to sink the indians, why would they, my point is that in the indian ocean the us navy reigns supreme, why then build a carrier if not for ocean supremacy.

Why does the UK have carriers? Or France? Neither intends nor expects to fight the USA. But they might want to act independently, in an operation where carriers are useful, or even essential (think Falklands). India is the same.

The Indian ocean is surrounded by fragile, & in some cases failed, states. One can imagine scenarios in which India might want to - or be asked to - intervene. India is also building up her amphibious forces, building new landing ships (based on the old British Round Tables) & buying a second hand LPD from the USA for now, but there's talk of more in the future. Carriers which can function as either primarily fixed-wing, or primarily helicopter carriers, depending on task, are very useful for supporting amphibious operations, even where the opposition doesn't have an air force.

None of this has anything to do with the USA. Indian carriers could sail straight past US carriers, en route to (e.g. - don't read anything into it) support a landing on Mauritius, & exchange polite salutes.

BTW, I hope they get a move on in Cochin. I want to see that ship launched!

 

[contedicavour]

Why does the UK have carriers? Or France? Neither intends nor expects to fight the USA. But they might want to act independently, in an operation where carriers are useful, or even essential (think Falklands). India is the same.

The Indian ocean is surrounded by fragile, & in some cases failed, states. One can imagine scenarios in which India might want to - or be asked to - intervene. India is also building up her amphibious forces, building new landing ships (based on the old British Round Tables) & buying a second hand LPD from the USA for now, but there's talk of more in the future. Carriers which can function as either primarily fixed-wing, or primarily helicopter carriers, depending on task, are very useful for supporting amphibious operations, even where the opposition doesn't have an air force.

None of this has anything to do with the USA. Indian carriers could sail straight past US carriers, en route to (e.g. - don't read anything into it) support a landing on Mauritius, & exchange polite salutes.

BTW, I hope they get a move on in Cochin. I want to see that ship launched!

India is basically a continent unto itself, stretching deep into the Indian Ocean. It makes perfect sense to have aircraft carriers to ensure air cover to naval operations from the East African coast to the Pacific Ocean.
The Indian Navy is strong and getting stronger in ASUW (with Brahmos for example) and ASW (mainly via its SSKs) but is still relatively weak in AAW, since the longest range missiles are SA-N-7 or -17, with 32km range maximum. So air cover with Sea Harriers and tomorrow MIG-29K does make sense.

cheers

 

[swerve]

India is basically a continent unto itself, stretching deep into the Indian Ocean. It makes perfect sense to have aircraft carriers to ensure air cover to naval operations from the East African coast to the Pacific Ocean.
The Indian Navy is strong and getting stronger in ASUW (with Brahmos for example) and ASW (mainly via its SSKs) but is still relatively weak in AAW, since the longest range missiles are SA-N-7 or -17, with 32km range maximum. So air cover with Sea Harriers and tomorrow MIG-29K does make sense.

cheers

One could actually imagine (not in current political circumstances, but times change) a neighbour invading the Andaman & Nicobar islands, & India having to launch a seaborne invasion to recover them. Couldn't rely on air cover from the mainland. Too far.

 

[Sea Toby]

And I doubt whether India would not intervene as far away as Fiji either, if the situation there turned into bloodbath between the Indian population and the native Fijians.

India is a large nation with a ever increasing robust economy. While it is still a long way from a European standard of living, its popultion size is huge. Keep in mind that Pakistan has the 6th largest population on this Earth, but its not even a fifth of India's population.

Unlike many nations who can't man their ships, India can.

For the first time in decades, India has sent one of their new frigates to the Tasman Sea, Australia and New Zealand for a goodwill visit. Don't think for a second, India is not concerned about the political situation in Fiji.

 

[contedicavour]

And I doubt whether India would not intervene as far away as Fiji either, if the situation there turned into bloodbath between the Indian population and the native Fijians.

India is a large nation with a ever increasing robust economy. While it is still a long way from a European standard of living, its popultion size is huge. Keep in mind that Pakistan has the 6th largest population on this Earth, but its not even a fifth of India's population.

Unlike many nations who can't man their ships, India can.

For the first time in decades, India has sent one of their new frigates to the Tasman Sea, Australia and New Zealand for a goodwill visit. Don't think for a second, India is not concerned about the political situation in Fiji.

Yep I agree. Indian Navy ships would probably also start appearing in the Persian Gulf or in the Red Sea if the main trade routes were threatened. I look forward to seeing Indian DDGs such as the new Delhi in international peacekeeping/anti-piracy missions.

cheers

 

[fightermki]

india doesnt use its carriers just for defense its carriers<comin soon> have a offensive punch too. and protecting nicobar islands india has an airbase with sukhois on regular deputations. more over do you think india will allow lehman,s to hunt nicobar islands . until there is a full scale war no one can attack indias islands. carriers also boast to be power symbols. start preparing for ins vikrmaditya <no jumpjets man! get ready for supersonic air interdictions over indian ocean>.cheers to mig29k.

 

[kams]

Yep I agree. Indian Navy ships would probably also start appearing in the Persian Gulf or in the Red Sea if the main trade routes were threatened. I look forward to seeing Indian DDGs such as the new Delhi in international peacekeeping/anti-piracy missions.

cheers

US is applyting considerable pressure on NewDelhi to join the Proliferation Security Initiative. Its only the internal politics in New Delhi thats delaying formal announcement. The two communist parties who are part of ruling coalation in India are playing spoil sport. Similarly US request for deployment of Indian armed forces in Northeren Afghanistan is also under active consideration. If only those commies can understand the current situation

As for Fiji, an Indian Frigate is in Fiji on a good will visit.
http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=44792

I don't think Indian Navy would ever need to raid Fiji to rescue native Indians...Australia and NewZealnd will take care of it.

 

[aaaditya]

The Hunter and Seeker UAVs you mentioned do they have the ability to detect aerial threats at meaningfully far ranges which gives the carrier borne aricraft enogh time to intercept them

there is a variant of hunter with a radar currently under development as part of an indo-israeli joint venture.

these uav's are more usefull for the defence of the carrier ,but i believe the combat aircrafts will utilise the services of the russian ka-32 whose radar has a range of 300 kms or the indigenous seaview radar mounted on the alh ,which also has similiar capabilities.

 

[tphuang]

there is a variant of hunter with a radar currently under development as part of an indo-israeli joint venture.

these uav's are more usefull for the defence of the carrier ,but i believe the combat aircrafts will utilise the services of the russian ka-32 whose radar has a range of 300 kms or the indigenous seaview radar mounted on the alh ,which also has similiar capabilities.

I think you mean ka-31? I don't believe ka-31 is that capable. At the same time, ka-31 is going through some issues, which explains why IN grounded its ka-31.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/ka31/

 

[kams]

Ka-31

I think its KA-31. KA-32 is a transport helicopter. KA-31 is a capable platform (no match for a fixed wing AEW asset), especially with its data linking capability, which works nicely with IN, network centric doctrine.

I believe problems with KA-31 has been taken care of. Russians have formed a company India, to cater to servicing of Russian made helicopters in service with Indian Armed services.
http://www.hindu.com/2006/06/18/stories/2006061803731000.htm

For some reason IN is focusing on shore based AEWs.

 

[contedicavour]

india doesnt use its carriers just for defense its carriers<comin soon> have a offensive punch too. and protecting nicobar islands india has an airbase with sukhois on regular deputations. more over do you think india will allow lehman,s to hunt nicobar islands . until there is a full scale war no one can attack indias islands. carriers also boast to be power symbols. start preparing for ins vikrmaditya <no jumpjets man! get ready for supersonic air interdictions over indian ocean>.cheers to mig29k.

Yes the carriers have an offensive punch too. Though with the Brahmos operational on some of your SSK (the upgraded Kilos) and on some of the DDG/FFGs, there's frankly no need to use a carrier for attack missions. I believe the carriers are needed to protect the fleet from air attacks from which it remains vulnerable with their best SAMs having a range of 32km, no VLS, no AEGIS.

cheers

 

[aaaditya]

Yes the carriers have an offensive punch too. Though with the Brahmos operational on some of your SSK (the upgraded Kilos) and on some of the DDG/FFGs, there's frankly no need to use a carrier for attack missions. I believe the carriers are needed to protect the fleet from air attacks from which it remains vulnerable with their best SAMs having a range of 32km, no VLS, no AEGIS.

cheers

thats likely to change with the barak8(super barak) currently under development as a 50:50 joint venture between indian and israel(deal estimated to be worth 300million dollars already signed ),it is believed that the missile will have a range of atleast 70 kms compatibility with mk41 vls launchers ,high speed(since a completely new propulsion systems is being developed for it),multi sensor capability .

according to some rumors thia missile would be based on the arrow2/3 ,but i cannot confirm this news as of now.