Flanker Export Thread

[Sandhi Yudha]

The Chinese Su-35 contract is finally signed, officially. 24 aircraft, allegedly for 2 billion dollars. There was a request by China to include Chinese avionics, but it's unclear whether this will actually happen. Also, this does not include any license production deal. It remains to be seen whether this is the first of a larger procurement program with eventual license production in China.

Контракт на поÑтавку Китаю 24 иÑтребителей Су-35 подпиÑан - bmpd

So, its now a matter of time until they also copy-past this defence-product....

 

[the concerned]

i'm not rubbishing the su-35 but for a country that is trying to sell its own advanced aircraft this has to be the worst case of advertising you can get. All this deal tells me is that China doesn't believe in its own equipment and that's not good.

 

[Toblerone]

i'm not rubbishing the su-35 but for a country that is trying to sell its own advanced aircraft this has to be the worst case of advertising you can get. All this deal tells me is that China doesn't believe in its own equipment and that's not good.

I believe the operators of chinese military aircraft have chosen to do so because they are cheaper or because noone else will sell to them. The best that they can hope for is that they can get the job done without any reliability problems. I don't think they expect chinese aircraft to be on par with the best that Russia has available, the su-35.

If my view is too simplistic or wrong, I would love to read a more knowledgeable one.

 

[StobieWan]

It casts a longer shadow over the J20 and similar projects however - going out and buying 24 off the shelf would seem to indicate that they've got nothing anywhere near production ready as yet. Or that the project is an R&D affair, nothing more.

 

[barney41]

It casts a longer shadow over the J20 and similar projects however - going out and buying 24 off the shelf would seem to indicate that they've got nothing anywhere near production ready as yet. Or that the project is an R&D affair, nothing more.

If the Su-35 is meant to fill a capability gap, why not simply build more J-10Bs and J-11s? Not up to snuff? Maybe we'll see some Su-35 tech being infused into the production jets.

 

[Ranger25]

If the Su-35 is meant to fill a capability gap, why not simply build more J-10Bs and J-11s? Not up to snuff? Maybe we'll see some Su-35 tech being infused into the production jets.

I agree with SB. To me this is more an indication of where they are on the J20/31 than anything else

 

[Toblerone]

You would be hard pressed to find someone putting faith in a chinese stealth design at this point. To me it seems like an unrealistic technology leap that will not lead to a practical weapon, so no mass production will occur. Maybe after many years ... and after they buy 24 PAKFA.

 

[Feanor]

i'm not rubbishing the su-35 but for a country that is trying to sell its own advanced aircraft this has to be the worst case of advertising you can get. All this deal tells me is that China doesn't believe in its own equipment and that's not good.

China still has problems with engines, and it's likely they don't have radars ready for serial production that can compare well with the Irbis. There's also a certain political component in this sale. Russia has two flagship fighter jets, the Su-30MKI and the Su-35S. 24 fighters isn't a very large deal, and the reports from the VVS suggest that they've yet to reach FOC. China may end up with a larger quantity eventually, if the first batch works out well.

 

[Haavarla]

This deal has more to do with Engine deals overall:

]JOINT-STOCK COMPANY «GAS-TURBINE ENGINEERING RESEARCH AND PRODUCTION CENTER «SALUT» | NEWS | NEWS | The FSUE “GTE-RPC “Salut”-produced AL-31FN series-3 engine receives code letter “O1”


PLAF is still very depended on Russian jet engine for J-10 and J-11.
They do produce their own, but the Russian engine is simply better.

I imagine the Su-35S will enter full service readiness very soon.

B.t.w. how very convinient for Russia, they just about finished with the domestic contract of 48 units..
Words has it, KnAAZ allready started producing the Su-35S for PLAF..

 

[Haavarla]

Next customer for Su-35S:

Roundup: Indonesia finally confirms to purchase Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jets | GlobalPost

Edit:
It is confirmed.
12 Su-35S for Indonesia

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1601081.html

 

[Feanor]

It appears the Su-34 has its first export contract, with Algeria, for 12 aircraft, for 500 mil USD. 40 aircraft are planned in the long run, through 2022. Algeria is also looking at EW and recon variants (personal comment - the statement strikes me as nonsensical, as there are no EW or recon variants, merely pods, but maybe dedicated variants are in the works). I would not be surprised if their combat use in Syria has a lot to do with the decision to go ahead and buy them, as there had been quite a few rumors about problems with the type, and if you recall, significant work was done to modify and upgrade aircraft that were already regarded as "serial production".

Су-34, как ÑообщаетÑÑ, официально заказаРÐлжиром - bmpd

 

[Ananda]

Indonesian Defense Chief Plans April Russia Visit Eyeing Su-35 Purchase / Sputnik International

Although SU-35 is the frontrunner candidate to replace TNI-AU F-5, but it's not a done deal yet, despite some media info locally or from outside saying so. This is in line with what I have posted before in Indonesian AF thread.

Still some report already suggest that, SAAB or LM now already moved from talking with Indonesian Mindef on F-5 replacement..instead moved discussion on next replacement project for 2 Hawk 200/100 sq.

 

[Toblerone]

Is the su-35 cost really around 35m dollars? If yes, that seems low to me, what other alternatives at that price range would a country with a small airforce and budget have? For airspace control?

For example, Algeria instead of buying 12 of them, what could they have bought?

(Buying military equipment is way more complicated than price and value of equipment of course but for conversation's sake)

 

[Feanor]

Is the su-35 cost really around 35m dollars? If yes, that seems low to me, what other alternatives at that price range would a country with a small airforce and budget have? For airspace control?

For example, Algeria instead of buying 12 of them, what could they have bought?

(Buying military equipment is way more complicated than price and value of equipment of course but for conversation's sake)

Algeria is buying Su-34 strike fighters. But yes, the Su-35S seems rather cheap. It might have to do with the weak currency right now. The rouble went from ~30/dollar to over 70/dollar, and similar changes vs the euro. This helps exports a lot.

 

[Feanor]

Belarus is planning to acquire the Su-30SM as well. It will be the second CIS export customer, after Kazakhstan. Like Russia, Belarus will replace MiG-29s with Su-30SM. Given the low cost of the Su-30 (due to mass production) this is actually feasible. It also makes sense since the Su-30SM is a well rounded multi-role fighter. It certainly compares favorably with the F-16s, MiG-29s, and Su-22s in service across the border in Poland. Potentially Belarus could even replace their Su-24 fleet with Su-30SM (the way Russian AVMF is doing).

И БелоруÑÑÐ¸Ñ Ñ€ÐµÑˆÐ¸Ð»Ð° купить иÑтребители Су-30СМ - Добро пожаовать в журнал РоÑтовÑкого Орла

 

[Ananda]

https://m.tempo.co/read/news/2016/0...akan-teken-pembelian-sukhoi-su-35-bulan-depan

Article from local newspaper Tempo. Sorry in Indonesian. Basically Indonesian Defense Minister told local media that he will be going to Moscow next month with one of Agenda on signing SU-35 procurement contract for 8-10 Aircraft.

This indicating 1st batch, which not unlike current Flanker sq, that the contract also divided into 3 batches. Some speculating that it's possible the current SU-27 MK will be transfered to sq 14 (which currently housed F-5 which will be replaced by SU-35)..That the next batch contract will not be for SU-35, but for another batch of SU-30MK2. This will create 1 sq of SU-35 and SU-27 MK (which will be upgraded later on), and 1 sq SU-30MK2..

But then again, the Indonesian flanker acquisition is always be flexible depnds on the budget and 'whim'..

 

[Haavarla]

According to this, there will be 10 Su-35S, probably delivered in two batches.
And all their older Flanker will see an overhaul/upgrade.

Most likely the Su-27SKM will get the SM3 upgrade, etc.

Indonesia to Buy 10 Fighter Jets from Russia

 

[Feanor]

The Su-35S has undergone testing in Algeria. An Su-34/35 combination would certainly make sense, if it weren't for the fact that they already have 42 Su-40MKA (very close to the MKI) and a bunch of MiG-29s that the upgraded themselves with Belarussian help.

Как ÑообщаетÑÑ, Су-35 прошел иÑÐ¿Ñ‹Ñ‚Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ Ð² лжире - bmpd

 

[Haavarla]

The Su-35S has undergone testing in Algeria. An Su-34/35 combination would certainly make sense, if it weren't for the fact that they already have 42 Su-40MKA (very close to the MKI) and a bunch of MiG-29s that the upgraded themselves with Belarussian help.

Как ÑообщаетÑÑ, Су-35 прошел иÑÐ¿Ñ‹Ñ‚Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ Ð² Ðлжире - bmpd

The Su-34 contract has not yet been inked.
Guess Algeria is looking at the Su-35S as well.

It will be interesting to see what they end up with.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia Plans Su-35 Squadron Buy, Will Ink Deal for 10 Aircraft Next Month

More development on SU-35 Indonesian deal. The Indonesian Mindef still talked up to 10 aircraft for SU-35 1st batch. On other side SAAB still offer Grippen C/D..wich they claim they can provide up to 12 aircraft on similar financial packages.

Like I said, it won't be finish..until the ink dry.