European Armour

[contedicavour]

I was forgetting the BV206 for alpine troops (180 acquired), though it can be argued they are more transport assets than AIFVs ?

If you need more details on our Dardo or on Puma or on Centauro AIFV tell me I'll provide.

cheers

 

[Waylander]

Jap, I also forgot them. They are also in service with our mountain infantry and are used as medic vehicles.

168 vehicles are used by the Bundeswehr.

 

[moughoun]

The regular army of the Republic of Ireland has 8,500 personnel (and a reserve army of 13,000), and consists of a single division sized element made up of three infantry brigades

40 Mowag Piranha 3(APC) Armament 1x12.7mm HMG machine gun, co-ax 7.62mm machine gun, 8x 66mm smoke discharger's.Role Armoured troop transport, Ambulance, Command vehicle.
? Panhard AML 90. Armament 1x90mm gun,co-ax 7.62mm machine gun, 4x66mm smoke discharger's. Role Cavalary/scout vehicle.
? Panhard AML 30. Armament 1x30mm cannon, co-ax 7.62mm machine gun, 4x66mm smoke discharger's. Role Cavalary/scout vehicle.
? Scorpion 440 (CVRT, Light REECE Tank). Armament 1x76mm gun, co-ax 7.62mm machine gun, 4 x66mm smoke discharger's.

# Mowag Durano (Bomb Disposal Unit Vehicles, Armoured + unarmoured).
# Accmad troop transport vehicle + gun tractor in limited role for 105mm and 120mm mortar artillery.
# Ford F50 REECE vehicle (special Forces).

Expeniture per year $700 million.

ah, wikipedia strikes again, actually, we'll have 85 Pirahna's soon, when the 15 recently ordered ones arrive, they will be armed with a mixture of Kongsberg RWS and oto malara 30mm cannon, we havesome where in the region of 30 upgraded panhard AML's, but hopefully they will be replaced in the near future, we also have a squadron about 13 Scorpion's, they too are to be upgraded, we'll also have 12 Duro's, but since they are not really armour, but the URO VAMTAC (a very cool Spanish humvee like vehicle), is beinh extensily tested, andwill probably enter service, also a LTAV is also needed, and I believe the competition for that will be re opened...lot's of new stuff coming in for the DF's here...btw our actual budget is closer to 1 billion, not 700 million, when everything is taken into account

 

[.pt]

Back from a nice vacation in sunny Algarve.
i´ll get to work compiling all the information, and then you people can correct me, wherever i may misread or misinterpret all this information.
.pt

 

[mikehotwheelz]

I can't find any information about Belgian armour. What kind of tanks, SP artillery and IFVs do they have and how many? Also does anybody know how many M109s Austria and Norway have in service?
cheers.

 

[Grand Danois]

I can't find any information about Belgium armour. What kind of tanks,SP artillery and IFVs do they have and how many? Also does anybody know how many M109s Austria and Norway have in service?
cheers.

Norway is post # 24 in this thread.

Norway:

* 52 Leopard 2 A4NO
* 62 Leopard 1 A5NO
* 104 CV 9030 N
* 500 M-113 (various)
* 74 SISU/PASI
* 36 M 109 A3GN
* 12 stk MLRS

 

[contedicavour]

I can't find any information about Belgian armour. What kind of tanks, SP artillery and IFVs do they have and how many? Also does anybody know how many M109s Austria and Norway have in service?
cheers.

What I know is that Belgium still has old Leopard 1s but that their replacements will be wheeled AIFVs, not MBTs.

cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

Alright, time for a MBT tally

I have only counted those that seemed to be assigned for operational use. So I tried to leave out mothballed/warstock/reserves etc. I have also not counted those that are about to be taken out of service.

"1st line"
LEO2A5/2A5S/2A6/2A6(M)/2E/2A6HEL + Leclerc + Challenger 2 + Ariete = 2027

"2nd line"
LEO2A4/2A4NO = 822

"3rd line"
LEO1A5/1A5NO/A3GR/1V + M60A3/A3TTS/TTS + M48A5 + T72M1 = 1804

If you disagree on the partition of a 1/2/3 line, then input is welcome.

EDIT: Just remembered Poland has 128 LEO2A4. These have now been added to the tally.

 

[contedicavour]

I have only counted those that seemed to be assigned for operational use. So I tried to leave out mothballed/warstock/reserves etc. I have also not counted those that are about to be taken out of service.

"1st line"
LEO2A5/2A5S/2A6/2A6(M)/2E/2A6HEL + Leclerc + Challenger 2 + Ariete = 2027

"2nd line"
LEO2A4/2A4NO = 822

"3rd line"
LEO1A5/1A5NO/A3GR/1V + M60A3/A3TTS/TTS + M48A5 + T72M1 = 1804

If you disagree on the partition of a 1/2/3 line, then input is welcome.

EDIT: Just remembered Poland has 128 LEO2A4. These have now been added to the tally.

Quite impressive tally. Even leaving aside the obsolete "3rd line", we're talking of almost 3,000 very modern MBTs with 120mm caliber main guns.
Though in my opinon these numbers are bound to continue falling, since MBTs are (together with heavy artillery) the least transportable assets for any overseas mission requiring transport by LPD or by C130J/A400 etc.
It will be interesting to see if and how many MBTs will be deployed in Lebanon for example. If even the Merkava-4 proved vulnerable, then the heaviest Western MBTs will be a no-miss.

cheers

 

[Waylander]

More than heavy tanks I would like to see modern heavy artillery there.
Due to the special environment there some batteries of PzH 2000 together with COBRA counter fire radars and LUNA UAVs right in the middel of the south of Lebanon should be able to cover a sphere with a 80km diameter with good precision.

But I'm getting off-topic.

 

[contedicavour]

More than heavy tanks I would like to see modern heavy artillery there.
Due to the special environment there some batteries of PzH 2000 together with COBRA counter fire radars and LUNA UAVs right in the middel of the south of Lebanon should be able to cover a sphere with a 80km diameter with good precision.

But I'm getting off-topic.

Your artillery regiments already have the PzH 2000 operational ?
Because we've just started production at Oto Melara and IVECO under licence.
Artillery-wise, we've got also more than 200 FH-70 155/39 mm guns beyond the M109Ls. Not to mention the 5th regiment with MLRS.

cheers

 

[Waylander]

Jep, 185 operational PzH 2000 with the last delivered in 2002.
Ammo is normal HE, bomblet, fog, light, SMArt and extended range.
I served together with them during some live fire exercises. The impact lets your tank bounce. Really impressive.

PzH 2000 together with the COBRA fire finder radar, Fennek/Puma FAC and LUNA recon UAV should be the most potent artillery package which is available.

We also got MLRS but I just saw them live firing from their position and not the impact.

 

[.pt]

mbt

Well, it would be intereresting for us, altough a bit dangerous for the crews to see how well European MBT, specially the Leo 2 A6, can cope and survive attacks by Hizbolah guerrilas with RPgs and anti tank missiles, but in reality, even if they were deployed, i think it would be difficuly for them to be atacked by the Hizbollah. A few "incidents" and "accidental shots would come more likely from the Israely side. Anyway, it would be interesting because there is the notion that merkavas didn´t fare that well on this deployment against that type of threats,due not only to the aparent small resistance of the armor to these weapons but also to poor tactics and a big intelligence gap.
As for the artillery, the setup that waylander refers, it could only act as counter battery, after the missile launches, right? Also could it really cover an 80 km protective bubble? And don´t the Israelis already have some kind of system of this type in place?Or were you thinking of having those batteries only for infantry suport?
Bit off topic i know but interesting.
.pt

 

[Waylander]

The extended range ammo is able to hit targets at a little bit more than 40km. The COBRA fire finde radar is able to find enemy fire positions within 40km, to classify them and to give you coordinates of 40 enemy firing positions with a maximum of 240 individual ordnances within not more than 2 min.
This gives you a big bubble within you are able to direct accurate fire against all kinds of targets.
Counterfire and support for troops under pressure by enemy forces would be the main mission. Should be very disturbing for enemy forces to have precise counterfire onto their position within minutes after you fired your own round or attacked a patrol.
And when the LUNA UAVs, the FACs with Fenneks and Puma or some other recon system would find some kind of threat you could also use them for a pre-attack.
But I doubt that ROEs would allow this.

 

[mikehotwheelz]

Sorry to be a bit off topic ...but I've read that the PZH2000 can fire five consecutive shells in such a way as they all arrive on the target at the same time. Could someone please explain how this is acheived
cheers

 

[Waylander]

This is achieved by firing the rounds fast after each other with different angels and different propelling charges.
A round which is fired with a high angle needs the same time to the target like a round which is fired with a lower angle but with a bigger propelling charge.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Sorry to be a bit off topic ...but I've read that the PZH2000 can fire five consecutive shells in such a way as they all arrive on the target at the same time. Could someone please explain how this is acheived
cheers

It's known technically as a "multiple simulataneous impacting rounds" (MSIR) and works much as Waylander described.

It works by calculating different trajectories for multiple projectiles. The initial rounds fired have longer more rounded trajectories, the later ones fired have more direct, straighter trajectories.

It can't be done at the weapon systems maximum range, but it can be done at tactically useful ranges. It can be done by many artillery systems not soley the PHZ 2000, the artillery directing and fire control equipment is what's important for this capability, not the calibre, type or kinematic performance of the weapon system. Many artillery systems have this capability, though newer systems can probably do it at greater ranges.

 

[mikehotwheelz]

Thanks for clearing that up .

 

[Grand Danois]

It's known technically as a "multiple simulataneous impacting rounds" (MSIR) and works much as Waylander described.

Not to be pedantic, but I have heard of it as MRSI - Multiple Rounds Simultaneous Impact. A beloved child may have many names, alphabet soup, etc..

The attractiveness of MRSI is of course that the salvo has the most effect on the target in the first seconds of impact, as it will quickly seek cover and thus reduce the effect of the fire.

Cheers

 

[370732]

Poland

Tanks
T-72– 597
PT-91 „TWARDY”- 233
Leopard 2A4 – 128

Armoured Modular Vehicle -
BWP – 1307
BWR – 38
KTO „Rosomak” – 98 (ordered 690) Polish version of Patria

Missile and artillery:
122 mm HS „Goździk” – 509 (howitzer using MT-LB chassis)
152 mm AHS „Dana” – 111 (howitzer using MT-LB chassis)
203,2 mm AS „Pion” – 8 (do końca czerwca 2006 r.)
122 mm missile launcher – BM 21/RM-70 (WWPR) – 257
Mortar 120 mm – 169
Mortar 98 mm – 51 sztuk (Ilość rośnie)
PPK „Spike” – 26 (ordered 264 launchers with 2675 missile )
PZA “Loara” * – 12 ( ordered 48 can increase to 74)
* (The Loara is an autonomous fire unit capable of performing its tasks independently or acting as a component of a wider air defence system. The system has two radars, a 3D search radar and an engagement radar. The search radar has a range of 26 km and is capable of tracking and identifying up to 64 targets at once. The radar system can also be operated on the move, refreshing its data every second. The system also has a laser range-finder, TV and FLIR cameras giving the system both all-weather day/night capabilities and the ability to operate entirely passively in a heavy ECM environment. The system also has a reaction time under 10 seconds. The system can engage aircraft flying at altitudes from very low altitudes up to 5000 m, and flying at speeds up to 500 m/s. It is also effective against lightly armoured ground and naval targets.
Ministry of National Defence
http://www.wp.mil.pl/index.php?lang=2