best special forces

[Sq No.15]

ndia News > New Delhi, Oct 18: Indian and Pakistani special forces, who normally meet in conflict situations across the mountainous Line of Control in Jammu and Kashmir, had a rare encounter marked by bonhomie at the just-concluded international exercise "Airborne Africa."

Commandos from the Indian army's 'Desert Rats' of the 10th Para special forces and Pakistan's elite Special Service Groups were involved in the annual international commando exercises, in which the Indian para came close second to the South Africans in the South African combat training centre at Lohatla.
But Pakistani SSG Commandos were not far behind being placed in the fourth position in the competition in which 17 teams from 14 countries participated among them the British Elite Special Air Service (SAS) commandos.

But away from the three-day tough competition arena, which involved parachute jumps from C-130 Hercules transport aircraft, endurance march of 30 kms, obstacle crossing, 10 km speed march, firing observation, casualty evacuation of 65 kg strecher and other events, the Indian and Pakistani special forces had enjoyed a "warm camaraderie", Major K S Sandhu, who led the Indian contingent, told PTI.

He said most of the events were with battle loads, personal weapons, crew served weapons and live ammunition weighing 32 kg for each competitor.

The Army Chief Gen NC Vij today patted the commandos for the feat saying their performance had been more laudable as some of the events had been so gruelling that most of the teams were not even able to complete them. PTI


http://www.123bharath.com/india-news/index.php?action=fullnews&id=30196

 

[suleman]

This news already discussed in some other thread and detailed scores were also displayed in each dicipline. India took the lead in seperate excercises but in team engagements which simulates original enviroment pakistan scored much more then india.
Secondly these events does not proove that some elite forces including Britian are not good coz they were not in the top 10 table. We can not draw a line between different elite forces so easily. Different forces are good in different enviroments and terrains and are trained for those enviroments.
I hope you got my point.

 

[Paxter]

You know what u cant judge a SOF the best and others are crap cause they are train in spesific enviroments... if you put an israeli or even a pakistani sof in a jungle chances are he will die or ... not from enemy fire but to cope in a total forgin enviroment... i think australian sas are the most flexible interms of getting use to diffrent enviroments... cause they go all over the world to train on a regular basis training and skill really depends what the unit is use for in the first place... if i am not mistaken even in the SAS they have diffrent units which are train to handel spesific missions...

I remember one time this british SAS got lost in sabah (malaysia) jungles and had to be rescued ... that does not make them any lousy its just that they dont train that much in dense jungles... and i am sure some of you here would agree jungles are the most hardest and dangerous place to be training in... chances are you die from a range of things, malaria, heat, infections etc or to a simple moisture and dirt clogging up your guns/ gear ... but if you put say a KOPASKA SOF(indonesian) units not the normal kopaska and place him in the desert u think he can function at an optimum level? i really doubt it

 

[Sq No.15]

I never says thats , SAS , i don't know ay SAS operation which make SAS so famous ?

Well you know India's High Altitude Warefare School ? , for high mountain training ,

Jungle Warefare School in NE India , for Jungle Warfare Tarinning,

Desert Warefare School for Desert relation warefare for commandoes , and you are right , Every country has Specilized units ,

India also has SF Para Commandoes , like Desert Rats , specilized in desert operatinons etc so Indians don't have to traval like Australianl to find jungles .


Well in WAR , conditons didn't comes according to your training and if SAS looses in the jungle , then this make them lousy , becasue they r not properly trained to handle operatins. What happen if they have to undertae real time operatin and they mae excesu becasue we are not trained in jungle warefare we will not do operatin but we are best .

Well if they can't handle different sistuation , then they can't be best .

 

[suleman]

Certainly all special forces operate in different parts of the world. Even Pakistani special forces conducted some excercises with americans in middle east few months back. Same is the case with other special forces and i am no way suggesting that this one is better then that one as its not possible to draw a line like this. There are soo many factors which count when we make such assumptions.
Pakistani and Indian special forces are maybe better because of better operational prepareness they have due to the relations between them. Certainly this is evident in some excercises.
But again real scenario is altogether a different thing and real test.
Technology is another big factor which covers many weaknesses.

 

[adsH]

ok guys has anyone paused to think why has the world's renowned SP UK SAS didn't make the Top ten. well lets make an educated guess rather then bagging our heads against the wall. the British Armed forces are engaged in the MidEast didn't anyone suspect the best trained units would be deployed around the Mideast supporting in the anti terror campaign. SAS operations are mostly kept under Raps so you can't just have a sprinting competition and evaluate who is better then who. YOu wouldn't know who is representing the SAS. they aren't bothered about showing the press what they can do they are trained to operate where no other forces can operate.

 

[mysterious]

I agree with Suleman, you can't really draw a line as to who is the best and who isn't in such a case. There are a lot of factors that need to be taken in to account and certain special forces may be good at certain things (that they have done or are trained for in line with their doctrine and situations that they operate in) but they may give the lead to some one else on some other things. I regard British SAS and Canadian Special Forces highly I guess (not to compare the two or others with either of them). :smokingc:

 

[Sq No.15]

ok guys has anyone paused to think why has the world's renowned SP UK SAS didn't make the Top ten. well lets make an educated guess rather then bagging our heads against the wall. the British Armed forces are engaged in the MidEast didn't anyone suspect the best trained units would be deployed around the Mideast supporting in the anti terror campaign. SAS operations are mostly kept under Raps so you can't just have a sprinting competition and evaluate who is better then who. YOu wouldn't know who is representing the SAS. they aren't bothered about showing the press what they can do they are trained to operate where no other forces can operate.

You are right , but i don't think is their any country display their Special forces and published them in newspaper , when SAS suffered some casulties British quick to even discuss about it saying , they don't discuss SAS in media , well again hypothetical sistuation who even won't know when entire SAS unit will wipe out, their casualities, so you can't judge the team unless it role is visible.

and i agree , well conditions and luck make operations successfull , and you can't compair.

 

[miqveh]

Interesting comments on all sides but I'll just include my two cents worth in. I have to agree with all that concurr that the special forces are good in each own unique way. However, may I add that the special forces, no matter how good they are, in no matter what or which situation, would not succeed a mission/any mission IF the intelligence failed. No matter how good the team is, they rely heavily on intelligence. And for some of us knows that intelligence most of the time are at best guesses. My two cents worth.

 

[sam_fisher]

I vote for the US Navy Seals...

 

[Turcain]

Maybe most of you didny hear about Turkish Special Forces (or as their original name, Bordo Bereliler) won the best special force award at a formal special force competition. Well, they are experienced in Northern Iraq and Southeast of Turkey, also they use nearly the same gadgets with other special forces but I think they differ from other because of their trainings and educations (most of members have at least universty degree and some has master degrees). If I find more data about them and any photo, I can upload here but I have never seen one even on newspapers.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

Maybe most of you didny hear about Turkish Special Forces (or as their original name, Bordo Bereliler) won the best special force award at a formal special force competition. Well, they are experienced in Northern Iraq and Southeast of Turkey, also they use nearly the same gadgets with other special forces but I think they differ from other because of their trainings and educations (most of members have at least universty degree and some has master degrees). If I find more data about them and any photo, I can upload here but I have never seen one even on newspapers.

Where exactly did Turkey win the competition? Erna? I've never heard of them win that one, in fact it was the Dutch who won it I think. So I'm wondering where you pull that out.

As for university degrees and masters. This is almost the basic standard for all western SOF members. Most of the operators in SAS, SASR or Delta are officers as far as I'm concern. There is not much to be impressed about that.

A turkish SF in Erna

 

[Turcain]

I cannot find any information in English, but as I know the competition named was Para-Kros and made in Germany. 26 special forces from around the world joined that competition and Turkish Special Forces won the best special team award. Date was June 18-19/2003 (or maybe 2004, I cant remember exact year).

 

[profdr]

french legioners really good soliders they are equal to delta force but not better than sas or navy seals. but israel forces are the best sof forces that l ever seen .in france l asked a legioner commander 'u have soliders all around the world can u compare your soliders which are the best .? answer is very interesting .we have soliders all around the world but turks are the best

 

[Turcain]

french legioners really good soliders they are equal to delta force but not better than sas or navy seals. but israel forces are the best sof forces that l ever seen .in france l asked a legioner commander 'u have soliders all around the world can u compare your soliders which are the best .? answer is very interesting .we have soliders all around the world but turks are the best

I think that is a result of mentality; State is above everything . But also Prussian Armies (since Teutonic Knights) are also good.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

french legioners really good soliders they are equal to delta force but not better than sas or navy seals. but israel forces are the best sof forces that l ever seen .in france l asked a legioner commander 'u have soliders all around the world can u compare your soliders which are the best .? answer is very interesting .we have soliders all around the world but turks are the best

Your statement is nowhere near the truth. Legionaires are a elite infantry formation while 1st SFOD Delta is a CT team. The bar for selection process of Delta are the highest within the U.S SOF community. Volunteers serving in existing SF units like 75th Ranger Regiment, Green Berets, SEALS, SBR and CCT. The drop out rate for these already exceptional candidates are 70%. I don't see any evidence that SEAL operatives are better trained than Delta.

And in my opinion, the legionaires are not that tough. I have a korean friend who serves in the combat regiment in the legion and I'm not very impressed by him, provided it might be that I'm a lot bigger than he is. He might be able to run 10km a minute or two faster than I do and have better eyesight, but other than that I don't think he's impressive in any sort of way.

 

[moughoun]

french legioners really good soliders they are equal to delta force but not better than sas or navy seals. but israel forces are the best sof forces that l ever seen .in france l asked a legioner commander 'u have soliders all around the world can u compare your soliders which are the best .? answer is very interesting .we have soliders all around the world but turks are the best

Your statement is nowhere near the truth. Legionaires are a elite infantry formation while 1st SFOD Delta is a CT team. The bar for selection process of Delta are the highest within the U.S SOF community. Volunteers serving in existing SF units like 75th Ranger Regiment, Green Berets, SEALS, SBR and CCT. The drop out rate for these already exceptional candidates are 70%. I don't see any evidence that SEAL operatives are better trained than Delta.

And in my opinion, the legionaires are not that tough. I have a korean friend who serves in the combat regiment in the legion and I'm not very impressed by him, provided it might be that I'm a lot bigger than he is. He might be able to run 10km a minute or two faster than I do and have better eyesight, but other than that I don't think he's impressive in any sort of way.

what he said, CAG are a tier 1 unit, there is also the SEAL's DEVGRU which is the maritime version of the D force, FFL are not any where near that level they are an elite light infantry unit, the legion's para regiment might come close to being a Ranger type unit and there is the legion's DINOP's underwater warfare unit which is like a SEAL's/SBS light unit, but FFL= Delta force.....no :roll

 

[gf0012-aust]

I was wondering how long it would take for the pogues to jump in

There's probably another 2-3 of you left who are going to jump in and slot that comment about the FFL.

 

[Turcain]

french legioners really good soliders they are equal to delta force but not better than sas or navy seals. but israel forces are the best sof forces that l ever seen .in france l asked a legioner commander 'u have soliders all around the world can u compare your soliders which are the best .? answer is very interesting .we have soliders all around the world but turks are the best

Your statement is nowhere near the truth. Legionaires are a elite infantry formation while 1st SFOD Delta is a CT team. The bar for selection process of Delta are the highest within the U.S SOF community. Volunteers serving in existing SF units like 75th Ranger Regiment, Green Berets, SEALS, SBR and CCT. The drop out rate for these already exceptional candidates are 70%. I don't see any evidence that SEAL operatives are better trained than Delta.

And in my opinion, the legionaires are not that tough. I have a korean friend who serves in the combat regiment in the legion and I'm not very impressed by him, provided it might be that I'm a lot bigger than he is. He might be able to run 10km a minute or two faster than I do and have better eyesight, but other than that I don't think he's impressive in any sort of way.

But think that these people do not expect nothing from life. I wanted to join FFL and talked with some members, they told me that, if u want to have adventure or fun, then dont come here, your life will not be better , actually i know that but if an official says that we must think about it. Most legionairres are losers in life, no job, bad relationships, etc. So they dont have to be perfect soldiers, they only server as they told nothing more .

 

[Gremlin29]

Consider me jumping in : FFL equal to Delta? That my friend, is just plain funny. They are not equal to the Rangers who are a bit of an odd duck for comparison to the spec war community. They are sort of a big hammer approach to interesting situations and do not do the typical "spec war" type of missions. Not withstanding the Ranger Regiment being a fine organization with all sorts of capabilities, they are nowhere near being Delta.

For an all around do it all formation, I don't think the SAS can be outdone. After that, there are a scant few that are even in that same arena, and then there are others more highly specialized in certain disciplines. Even the individual SEAL teams are specialized. SF does an entirely different type of mission as well.

The problem with the root question is that it's sort of like saying which airplane is best? Well it depends, which "type" of airplane are we talking about? Are we talking overall capability coupled with assetts, training and experience or are we talking about who can build the best field expedient bear trap?