Australian Army Discussions and Updates

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Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Stampede said:
Did Austral just win the contract for LAND 8710 LMV-M?
News grab in the Financial review suggests an announcement tomorrow in WA.

If true it will be interesting as to what it looks like.
Austral have some images of one contender with limited information re size and capability.
Also they are building a LCU replacement for the US navy which may also be an offering.

Could all be nonsense or maybe we actually have a decision.

Find out tomorrow.


Cheers S
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The decision was due in Q4 2023, really not surprised, the Austal/Raytheon/BMT bid was always going to be a very strong bid, Austal already has a workforce in place building the Guardian class that is fast running out of work, there would be a fair bit of room for commonalities of suppliers and equipment from the Guardians. Austal knows how to sell its boats to the Australian Government.
 
S

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Redlands18 said:
The decision was due in Q4 2023, really not surprised, the Austal/Raytheon/BMT bid was always going to be a very strong bid, Austal already has a workforce in place building the Guardian class that is fast running out of work, there would be a fair bit of room for commonalities of suppliers and equipment from the Guardians. Austal knows how to sell its boats to the Australian Government.
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Whatever the outcome, I'll be interested in the vessels detail and capability.
All the contenders appear much closer in size to the old LCH , rather than something marginally bigger than what they are replacing in the LCM8.
I trust the load and range capabilities of the
Balikpapan-class are equalled in the winning
LMV-M design.

Cheers S
 
M

Maranoa

Active Member
Australian & NZ Defender is reporting that the Birdon LCM has been selected as the replacement for the LCM8, built in WA by Austal
 
R

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
R

Reptilia

Well-Known Member

Attachments

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R

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
FormerDirtDart said:
As mentioned earlier, the Littoral Maneuver Vessel-Medium is set to be significantly larger than the LCM8 they're replacing
Birdon's design certainly appears to be a sizable craft.

(image from linked media release)
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While yes it is a much bigger craft, it is not about a dramatic increase in load carrying capability, it will do the same tasks as the LCM-8. It is about being far superior in range, endurance, speed, crew facilities, storage and sea keeping.
 
R

Reptilia

Well-Known Member
Redlands18 said:
Federal government unveils strategic partnership for new Army landing craft - Defence Connect
The Birdon/Austal partnership will build the LMV-M and possibly the LMV-H as well. Sounds like Birdon will get a contract to design a LCH size vessel but has a few steps to go before it will be accepted.
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Birdon designed heavy craft potentially... Interesting to see how it compares with the LC 1700 Austal usa are building or the Austal/BMT/raytheon heavy offer which is bigger again, 75m, 200+ ton load. 18 crew, Roll on, roll off ramp, 3,700km range.

more info on naval news
Expected medium vessel deliveries begin 2026.
TBD heavy vessel deliveries begin 2028.

www.navalnews.com

Austal, Birdon Secure Australian Landing Craft Contract - Naval News

Austal and Birdon will partner to build the Australian Army's next-generation landing craft. Austal will also build more evolved Cape class
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com
 
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S

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Redlands18 said:
While yes it is a much bigger craft, it is not about a dramatic increase in load carrying capability, it will do the same tasks as the LCM-8. It is about being far superior in range, endurance, speed, crew facilities, storage and sea keeping.
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It will be interesting as to the final design and capability.
The four contenders were obviously not letting out to much in the public arena re their respective capabilities.
Given that the Austal/Raytheon/BMT bid appears similar in size to the old Balikpapan Class at over 40m, comparisons of performance will be understandable.
While the later were not known for their crew comfort, they did provide admirable service for their size.
In reality the LCH is being replaced by the LMV-M and the LCM8s are being replaced by the LCM1e.
The LCM8 is really a connector, utilised and modified by the ADF to be something it is not really designed be: a long range coastal hugger.
The LMV-H is a micro replacement for HMAS Tobruk. Lets see what that looks like!

So "superior in range, endurance, speed, crew facilities, storage and sea keeping "I can understand.
Just hope it can carry a lot more than a couple of Bushmasters.

Fingers crossed for a capable vessel.


Cheers S
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
John Fedup said:
I can still recall your correction on my using mute instead of moot. You should add spelling to your Super Mod title.
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These days, I get paid by a Japanese translation company to proofread translations (supplements my pensions & keeps my brain ticking over), & when I was in IT I was usually the team member tasked with checking any documentation we produced for users. ;) And I'm qualified to teach English as a foreign language.

John Fedup said:
Must admit however that Apple does insert stuff that often escapes scrutiny by posters, especially me!
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Yes, autocorrupt has a lot to answer for.
 
Trackmaster

Trackmaster

Member
Stampede said:
It will be interesting as to the final design and capability.
The four contenders were obviously not letting out to much in the public arena re their respective capabilities.
Given that the Austal/Raytheon/BMT bid appears similar in size to the old Balikpapan Class at over 40m, comparisons of performance will be understandable.
While the later were not known for their crew comfort, they did provide admirable service for their size.
In reality the LCH is being replaced by the LMV-M and the LCM8s are being replaced by the LCM1e.
The LCM8 is really a connector, utilised and modified by the ADF to be something it is not really designed be: a long range coastal hugger.
The LMV-H is a micro replacement for HMAS Tobruk. Lets see what that looks like!

So "superior in range, endurance, speed, crew facilities, storage and sea keeping "I can understand.
Just hope it can carry a lot more than a couple of Bushmasters.

Fingers crossed for a capable vessel.


Cheers S
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Trackmaster

Trackmaster

Member
There are things about this LMV M announcement that I find "interesting". Birdon is reported to have worked with Incat on the design. They are reported to have a prototype under construction in another yard in Fremantle, and I remember the attempt to jam Austal into the OPV contract. Some interesting contract negotiations ahead?
 
S

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Trackmaster said:
There are things about this LMV M announcement that I find "interesting". Birdon is reported to have worked with Incat on the design. They are reported to have a prototype under construction in another yard in Fremantle, and I remember the attempt to jam Austal into the OPV contract. Some interesting contract negotiations ahead?
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Last months Australian Warship magazine had a detailed look at Birdons contender for LAND 8710 phase 1A

Just a coincidence!
The fact they are building a full sized vessel shows confidence.
Hopefully it's a good craft.


Interesting and somewhat over looked is that two more evolved Cape class vessels are to be built.

Does this say something about the Arafura Class?
One for the Naval thread


Cheers S
 
OldTex

OldTex

Well-Known Member
The reporting of the LMV-M decision in Naval News included the following interesting comment regarding the locations of the "littoral lift groups" mentioned in the announced Army restructure:

'Birdon and Austal will build a total of 18 vessels to replace 15 LMC8s. These will equip the Army’s new “Littoral Lift Groups” which will be stood up in Brisbane, Cairns, and Darwin from next year. According to the Minister for Defence Industry, Pat Conroy, the first new LCM will be delivered in 2026.'

Allowing for possible geographic misrepresentation by the reporter, the mention of the littoral lift group supposedly supporting 3 Bde being based in Cairns is strange. Why would the lift group be placed 350 km away from the Bde it is supposed to support? This is especially strange on 2 points. Firstly there is a port at Townsville plus the Water Transport school at Ross Island which should be able support and sustain the lift group. Secondly the only military units in Cairns are the RFSU (51 FNQR) and the patrol boat and hydrographic vessel base (HMAS Cairns). It does make one wonder whether there will be a repeat of the reallocation of the LCHs from Army to Navy.

Another question waiting to be answered is where will the littoral lift group supporting 7 Bde will be based? Perhaps Meeandah (Damascus Barracks) might be revitalized or the former Bulimba Barracks site (after being bought back from developers at a greatly inflated price no doubt) could be in the frame.

But no doubt that as time progresses there will 'revisions' to the plan such as they are, in order adjust to a changing strategic environment, financial pressures, etc. All of which will see Army expected to do more with far less.
 
spoz

spoz

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Port of Townsville is apparently pretty well at capacity; getting a berth there is a challenge. Plus there is significant marine support capacity in a Cairns; and the mangroves to hide in during cyclones.
 
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A

Armchair

Well-Known Member
Reptilia said:

Austal from 400 workers to 1200..
Landing craft Heavy will be 3-5,000 tonnes, capable of moving 11 ifvs(redback)…
Something similar to the General Frank Besson class LSV
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interesting that the littoral 1 Bde isn’t scheduled to have any IFVs to transport.

i think that when Minister Conroy said
”The DSR recommended that they [LMV] start arriving from 2027 to coincide with the delivery of the infantry fighting vehicles” that is new information.
 
A

Armchair

Well-Known Member
OldTex said:
The reporting of the LMV-M decision in Naval News included the following interesting comment regarding the locations of the "littoral lift groups" mentioned in the announced Army restructure:

'Birdon and Austal will build a total of 18 vessels to replace 15 LMC8s. These will equip the Army’s new “Littoral Lift Groups” which will be stood up in Brisbane, Cairns, and Darwin from next year. According to the Minister for Defence Industry, Pat Conroy, the first new LCM will be delivered in 2026.'
Allowing for possible geographic misrepresentation by the reporter, the mention of the littoral lift group supposedly supporting 3 Bde being based in Cairns is strange. Why would the lift group be placed 350 km away from the Bde it is supposed to support? This is especially strange on 2 points. Firstly there is a port at Townsville plus the Water Transport school at Ross Island which should be able support and sustain the lift group. Secondly the only military units in Cairns are the RFSU (51 FNQR) and the patrol boat and hydrographic vessel base (HMAS Cairns). It does make one wonder whether there will be a repeat of the reallocation of the LCHs from Army to Navy.
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Possible mistake yes. One other possibility beyond spoz’s. Cairns is a shorter transit for some regional contingencies.
With due respect to Townsville, I imagine Army postings in Cairns could be attractive Including for partner employment opportunities.
 
R

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
OldTex said:
The reporting of the LMV-M decision in Naval News included the following interesting comment regarding the locations of the "littoral lift groups" mentioned in the announced Army restructure:

'Birdon and Austal will build a total of 18 vessels to replace 15 LMC8s. These will equip the Army’s new “Littoral Lift Groups” which will be stood up in Brisbane, Cairns, and Darwin from next year. According to the Minister for Defence Industry, Pat Conroy, the first new LCM will be delivered in 2026.'

Allowing for possible geographic misrepresentation by the reporter, the mention of the littoral lift group supposedly supporting 3 Bde being based in Cairns is strange. Why would the lift group be placed 350 km away from the Bde it is supposed to support? This is especially strange on 2 points. Firstly there is a port at Townsville plus the Water Transport school at Ross Island which should be able support and sustain the lift group. Secondly the only military units in Cairns are the RFSU (51 FNQR) and the patrol boat and hydrographic vessel base (HMAS Cairns). It does make one wonder whether there will be a repeat of the reallocation of the LCHs from Army to Navy.

Another question waiting to be answered is where will the littoral lift group supporting 7 Bde will be based? Perhaps Meeandah (Damascus Barracks) might be revitalized or the former Bulimba Barracks site (after being bought back from developers at a greatly inflated price no doubt) could be in the frame.

But no doubt that as time progresses there will 'revisions' to the plan such as they are, in order adjust to a changing strategic environment, financial pressures, etc. All of which will see Army expected to do more with far less.
Click to expand...
There are a number of very good reasons to base in Cairns instead of Townsville. Its 350k closer to the operating areas, 350ks, is what, a 5-6hr drive (at convoy speeds) from Townsville. As fast as the new LMV-M will be, it is not going to be able to match that. There is a RAN base in Cairns already and expanding that may also be a lot more straight forward than building a new base in Townsville.
It is quite often not possible to base ADF units where it seems to be the most advantageous for working closely with other units. For Australia geography is a major issue and when you start talking maritime, a huge factor is the Port, the ability to build new facilities, civil support, access to deep water.
We are still waiting on the decision on where the East Coast SSN base will be located, if it is Brisbane, than that may include a new Army Water Transport Base.
 
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