Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[SABRE]

Interview

I am to conduct an interview with two PAF pilots tomorrow. If any of you fellows want to ask any questions put it here. Remeber they are GDP pilots, & not in the administration so plz ask relevant questions.

You have only few hours to put your questions here. If I ask any question given by you ppl I'll put the answers here.

 

[Sharif Smuggler]

Pak-China to jointly develop AWAC

Source: International Herald Tribune

Pakistan and China sign deal to develop long-range radar equipped early warning planes


ISLAMABAD, Pakistan: Pakistan and China have agreed to jointly develop long-range radar equipped early warning aircraft, the Pakistan Air Force said Friday in a statement.

The announcement came during a visit to the country by Chinese President Hu Jintao in which the two allies are expected to discuss expanding ties in the defense, nuclear, economic and trade sectors.

The Pakistan Air Force and Chinese Aviation Industries agreed "for long term collaboration and co-development in the fields of aircraft manufacturing and other related fields including AWACS," the PAF said.

It said a Memorandum of Understanding was signed in Islamabad between the PAF and the Chinese Aviation Company, CETC, for the improvement and further development of Chinese Airborne Early Warning System.

"The same may be delivered to Pakistan in coming years," the statement said.

Pakistan Air Force is already collaborating with another Chinese aviation company, CATIC, for the co-development and co-production of JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft.

Fight JF-17s are expected to be delivered to Pakistan during 2007.



The News (Jang) also just reported the news: Link!!

 

[Big-E]

I am to conduct an interview with two PAF pilots tomorrow. If any of you fellows want to ask any questions put it here. Remeber they are GDP pilots, & not in the administration so plz ask relevant questions.

You have only few hours to put your questions here. If I ask any question given by you ppl I'll put the answers here.

I have one... ask them what they feel about the results of Cope India and what have they done to "cope" with it.

You have yet to tell us what the thesis of your paper is supposed to be. If you want any materials from me you will have to get specific so i can pass you what you need. Modern Air Combat is too broad of a subject...

 

[SABRE]

I have one... ask them what they feel about the results of Cope India and what have they done to "cope" with it.

You have yet to tell us what the thesis of your paper is supposed to be. If you want any materials from me you will have to get specific so i can pass you what you need. Modern Air Combat is too broad of a subject...

I'll ask the question but the answer might just be there prespective, not that of entire PAF. & I'll PM you the outline. You do hurry though, I have dead line of 30th Nov.

 

[SATAN]

This is a good time to get any thing from Russia with the help of china if JF17 is fiited with RD93 then the new era of relation betwen Pak and Russia is begin and indian also had to gone for the US favour. with in 2 to 5 years things can change easily the new group may be Russia China and Pakistan what you think

Sino Ruski technology will always be 2 generations behind the top of the line American Tech.

 

[SATAN]

The delivery date is 2010? Seems a long way off.

Pentagon Contract Announcement


(Source: US Department of Defense; issued Dec. 5, 2006)


Lockheed Martin Corp., Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded a $144,069,000 firm-fixed-price and time and materials contract. The procurement of foreign military sales F-16 C/D new aircraft for the (Pakistan) program for the F-16 Block 52 aircraft.

The procurement of 12 operational single place F-16C Block 52 aircraft and 6 operational two place F-16D Block 52 aircraft will be accomplished under the firm-fixed price portion of the contract.

This effort supports foreign military sales to Pakistan. At this time, $78,431,000 has been obligated. This work will be complete by November 2010.

Headquarters Aeronautical Systems Center, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, is the contracting activity (FA8615-07-C-6031).

 

[BilalK]

The delivery date is 2010? Seems a long way off.

That is normal, and that date might be the overall program due date because the overall deal involves 36 aircraft.

 

[Aussie Digger]

The delivery date is 2010? Seems a long way off.

Pentagon Contract Announcement


(Source: US Department of Defense; issued Dec. 5, 2006)


Lockheed Martin Corp., Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded a $144,069,000 firm-fixed-price and time and materials contract. The procurement of foreign military sales F-16 C/D new aircraft for the (Pakistan) program for the F-16 Block 52 aircraft.

The procurement of 12 operational single place F-16C Block 52 aircraft and 6 operational two place F-16D Block 52 aircraft will be accomplished under the firm-fixed price portion of the contract.

This effort supports foreign military sales to Pakistan. At this time, $78,431,000 has been obligated. This work will be complete by November 2010.

Headquarters Aeronautical Systems Center, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, is the contracting activity (FA8615-07-C-6031).

You've got to remember how long it takes to build these aircraft, and how many orders LM has at any one time. Poland ordered their's in 2002 and only received the first 4 last month. Nearly 4 years to receive the first aircraft after placing an order...

 

[aaaditya]

The delivery date is 2010? Seems a long way off.

Pentagon Contract Announcement


(Source: US Department of Defense; issued Dec. 5, 2006)


Lockheed Martin Corp., Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded a $144,069,000 firm-fixed-price and time and materials contract. The procurement of foreign military sales F-16 C/D new aircraft for the (Pakistan) program for the F-16 Block 52 aircraft.

The procurement of 12 operational single place F-16C Block 52 aircraft and 6 operational two place F-16D Block 52 aircraft will be accomplished under the firm-fixed price portion of the contract.

This effort supports foreign military sales to Pakistan. At this time, $78,431,000 has been obligated. This work will be complete by November 2010.

Headquarters Aeronautical Systems Center, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, is the contracting activity (FA8615-07-C-6031).

i guess ,pakistan could have acquired second hand or relatively unused f-16's(maybe from belgium) and given them a complete life extension and upgradation to the b52 standard ,that would have been less time consuming.or pakistan can acquire a few f16b52's on lease till their orders are completed,however it would be more expensive.

 

[SATAN]

i guess ,pakistan could have acquired second hand or relatively unused f-16's(maybe from belgium) and given them a complete life extension and upgradation to the b52 standard ,that would have been less time consuming.or pakistan can acquire a few f16b52's on lease till their orders are completed,however it would be more expensive.

I believe the Belgian F-16s were sold to Jordan if im not mistaken. PAF can still buy older Dutch F-16s .

 

[SATAN]

You've got to remember how long it takes to build these aircraft, and how many orders LM has at any one time. Poland ordered their's in 2002 and only received the first 4 last month. Nearly 4 years to receive the first aircraft after placing an order...

A lot can happen before 2010, our idiot Democrat Congressmen might get another bout of stupidity and block all sales of F-16s to Pakistan. Then its back to Square 1. All jets must be delivered by the end of 2008....otherwise there are no guarantees.

Now if a Republican majority is back in place in the Senate and Congress, then there should be no problem.

 

[Aussie Digger]

A lot can happen before 2010, our idiot Democrat Congressmen might get another bout of stupidity and block all sales of F-16s to Pakistan. Then its back to Square 1. All jets must be delivered by the end of 2008....otherwise there are no guarantees.

Now if a Republican majority is back in place in the Senate and Congress, then there should be no problem.

True, though Lockheed Martin was just awarded a $144m contract the other day to commence building the 18 ordered PAF aircraft, so everything appears on track at present.

Pakistan however has a requirement for 96x F-16 aircraft of basically Block 52 or equivalent standard. It currently has 18 on order and 34 already in-service with planned MLU's for these aircraft. With options on another 18 new build aircraft, this leaves Pakistan 26 or so aircraft short, according to my sums.

I thought it had been announced that PAF would acquire "second hand" USAF F-16 aircraft to make up the difference? If so I wonder whether the MLU upgrade work will be conducted in Pakistan or in the US, with the upgraded aircraft delivered directly to Pakistan?

 

[SATAN]

I thought it had been announced that PAF would acquire "second hand" USAF F-16 aircraft to make up the difference? If so I wonder whether the MLU upgrade work will be conducted in Pakistan or in the US, with the upgraded aircraft delivered directly to Pakistan?

That MLU work is going to be conducted by TAI of Turkey. It makes sense as Turkey is in the process of a massive upgrade of its older F-16s with MLU kits supplied by Lockheed Martin.

 

[Sharif Smuggler]

Source: DSCA

Pakistan – E-2C Hawkeye 2000 Airborne Early Warning Suite for P-3s

WASHINGTON, December 07, 2006 - The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan for refurbishment and modification of three excess P-3 aircraft with the E-2C HAWKEYE 2000 Airborne Early Warning (AEW) Suite, as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $855million.

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale for refurbishment and modification of three excess P-3 aircraft with the E-2C HAWKEYE 2000 Airborne Early Warning (AEW) Suite, spare and repairs parts, simulators, support equipment, personnel training and training equipment, publications and technical data, system software development and installation, ground/flight testing of new systems and system modifications, U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $855 million.

This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that has been and continues to be an important force for economic progress in South Asia and a partner in the global war on terrorism. The command-and-control capabilities of these aircraft will improve Pakistan’s ability to restrict the littoral movement of terrorists along Pakistan’s southern border and ensure Pakistan’s overall ability to maintain integrity of its borders.

Pakistan intends to use the proposed equipment to develop an effective air defense network for its naval forces and provide an AEW surveillance and enhanced command, control, and communications capability. The addition of the AEW suites will provide Pakistan with search surveillance, and control capability in support of maritime interdiction operations. These aircraft will also increase Pakistan’s ability to support the U.S. Operation Enduring Freedom operations, and provide anti-ship and anti-submarine warfare capabilities; and a control capability over land against transnational terrorists and narcotics smugglers. The modernization will enhance the capabilities of the Pakistani Navy and support its regional influence and meet its legitimate self-defense needs. Pakistan will have no difficulty absorbing the AEW platform into its armed forces.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not affect the basic military balance in the region. The prime contractor will be Northrop Grumman Corporation, St. Augustine, Florida and Lockheed-Martin, Greenville, South Carolina. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale. Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any U.S. Government and contractor representatives to Pakistan. There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale. This notice of a potential sale is required by law; it does not mean that the sale has been concluded.

 

[aaaditya]

does it mean ,that pakistan is going to convert 3 of the 8 orions to surveillance aircraft,seems quite unnecessary since they have already ordered the erieye(7 of them) and are jointly developing the awacs with china.

 

[umair]

The Navy has it's own needs aaaditya just like you'r navy. They find the Orion AEW&C platform to have an "enabling" effect(business lingo sorry for the jargon but could'nt find more apt description) and would allow them to be independant of the PAF when it comes to their own AEW&C needs.
Excess Orions most likely means surplus USN stocks and speaking in terms of logistical synergies the Orion as an AEW&C platform for the Pak navy will be the correct choice.
BTW to the aussies here, wasn't the first Orion AEW&C an ex Aussie P-3B airframe?

 

[BilalK]

does it mean ,that pakistan is going to convert 3 of the 8 orions to surveillance aircraft,seems quite unnecessary since they have already ordered the erieye(7 of them) and are jointly developing the awacs with china.

The wording suggests PN requested three additional P-3cs for the Hawkeye 2000 system. So basically 10 P-3Cs and 3 P-3 Hawkeye-2000 AEW&C, and the airframes will come for free under EDA.

 

[aaaditya]

The Navy has it's own needs aaaditya just like you'r navy. They find the Orion AEW&C platform to have an "enabling" effect(business lingo sorry for the jargon but could'nt find more apt description) and would allow them to be independant of the PAF when it comes to their own AEW&C needs.
Excess Orions most likely means surplus USN stocks and speaking in terms of logistical synergies the Orion as an AEW&C platform for the Pak navy will be the correct choice.
BTW to the aussies here, wasn't the first Orion AEW&C an ex Aussie P-3B airframe?

also what is the status of the earlier plan to acquire 2 of the 7 erieye's meant for the pakistani airforce,will these aircrafts be manned by naval crew or a dedicated airforce crew.

 

[Aussie Digger]

The wording suggests PN requested three additional P-3cs for the Hawkeye 2000 system. So basically 10 P-3Cs and 3 P-3 Hawkeye-2000 AEW&C, and the airframes will come for free under EDA.

I guess the PAF P-3 Orion AEW aircraft will resemble this:

http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/types/usa/lockheed_martin/p-3/4998.jpg

 

[SATAN]

Its been a while since the embargo on Libya was lifted, yet it is still indentified by US as a sensitive destination? Anyway, good news for Pakistan-Libya defense relations.

Libya acquires Pakistani Integrated Dynamics Border Eagle UAVs over two year period
By Mona Hussain


Pakistani unmanned air vehicle manufacturer Integrated Dynamics has confirmed that it has supplied UAVs to Libya within the past two years, although the deal may have been limited to the supply of airframes rather than complete systems.


The deal appears to have been for a limited number of Integrated Dynamics Border Eagle Mk II systems, although the company declines to confirm this other than acknowledging that the air vehicle type is its primary export platform.


Chief executive Raja Sabir Khan told Flight that within the past two years the company had made deliveries to users in Australia, Libya, South Korea, Spain and the USA. "Most of the orders to the countries mentioned were placed, and delivered, during this period," he says. Khan declined to provide details on the end user for the Border Eagle systems, citing restrictions by Pakistani military authorities.


"The Border Eagle Mk II appears to be our most popular UAV airframe and mostly these have been exported to various customers," he says. "I would put the numbers at approximately 15-20 airframes." The total value of exports to the five nominated countries was $300,000, he adds.


Integrated Dynamics is pursuing a business strategy of supplying low-cost components rather than full systems, Khan says, adding: "Most competitors have a limited range and are reluctant to make their airframes available outside of complete system sales."


The international defence equipment sales embargo on Libya was lifted at the end of 2003, but the country is still identified by US authorities as a sensitive destination.


Source