China's military power

[Waylander]

I think it is unimportant for Russias strategy to strike back with NBC weapons in case of an unsuccessfull conventional defense of siberia.

China is said to have some ICBMs directed at Russia's major areas St.Petersburg and Moskau.
The other way around Russia is able to make a black glass plate out of China in case of a nuclear war.
The risk for China is much too high and so I don't agree with the. nowadays very popular, opinion that China is going to try to annect Siberia.
Not to talk of the Russian conventional forces which are not in the best shape but far away from being a paper tiger and easy target for the PLA.

 

[eckherl]

The PLA still has about another 5 years or so to go to really form a good solid Air Land Battle style doctrine, different military branches are just now starting to learn how to work closely with each other. Cohesion is a big factor in any war. They have been watching us real close on how we operate.

 

[ever4244]

in history , russian has take or divide 200m km^2 territory from china, So the alliance now is unstable.The only reason bound russia and china together is US. and as long as the situation doesn t change ,we ll still call russia a friend rather than a foe.

 

[contedicavour]

China needs Russia because of its oil, gas and other commodities.
Russia needs China as a market for export of its defence industries.
The 2 need each other to limit the influence of the US and its NATO (or non-NATO, as Japan) allies.

However let's not forget that the US and Japan are China's main export markets, and main source of foreign direct investment.

=> China probably feels less threatened than Russia, and could even potentially side with the West one day, since its economic interests are there.

cheers

 

[ever4244]

China needs Russia because of its oil, gas and other commodities.
Russia needs China as a market for export of its defence industries.
The 2 need each other to limit the influence of the US and its NATO (or non-NATO, as Japan) allies.

However let's not forget that the US and Japan are China's main export markets, and main source of foreign direct investment.

=> China probably feels less threatened than Russia, and could even potentially side with the West one day, since its economic interests are there.

cheers

You are right in some aspect,for the national feeling of china prefer US than russia for various of reason. One is US hasn t occupy our former land and help us defend japan in WW2----which we still feel gratitude . the other is as you said our economic interests lay in the west. Nevertheless we are communist states whose renaissance will disturb the traditional influence of US , just like German before WW1, the new will challenge the dominating old for it s own space . So we have to unite other fresh men to try to break the old manacle and rule. And how exactly fierce the struggle is , still remain to be seen.that is the re-allocation of world s power territory .

 

[KGB]

Y Nevertheless we are communist states whose renaissance will disturb the traditional influence of US , just like German before WW1, the new will challenge the dominating old for it s own space . So we have to unite other fresh men to try to break the old manacle and rule. And how exactly fierce the struggle is , still remain to be seen.that is the re-allocation of world s power territory .

You hit the nail right on the head with the Germany before ww1 analogy. Another example of a new power flexing muscle was Japan in the 30s. That's why despite the remaining ill feelings between the Korea, and the rest of Asia with Japan for WW2, the militaries in the region fear China's rise more than Japan's rearmnament. In 20 years the PLA will modernize, while Japan's population ages.

 

[Big-E]

You hit the nail right on the head with the Germany before ww1 analogy. Another example of a new power flexing muscle was Japan in the 30s. That's why despite the remaining ill feelings between the Korea, and the rest of Asia with Japan for WW2, the militaries in the region fear China's rise more than Japan's rearmnament. In 20 years the PLA will modernize, while Japan's population ages.

I think a better Japanese analogy would be that of the Imperial Navy in the Russo-Japanese War. When Japan flexed her muscle Russia was miserably defeated and Japan rose to be the mightiest nation in Asia. In 20 years PLA will modernize but Japan won't sit idle. It will take PLA 20 years just to catch up to JSDF. If JSDF really felt threatened she would have the mightiest military in the world next to the US. They have the money, the tech, the production and most importantly close ties with the patent holder. :japan

 

[icelord]

I think a better Japanese analogy would be that of the Imperial Navy in the Russo-Japanese War. When Japan flexed her muscle Russia was miserably defeated and Japan rose to be the mightiest nation in Asia. In 20 years PLA will modernize but Japan won't sit idle. It will take PLA 20 years just to catch up to JSDF. If JSDF really felt threatened she would have the mightiest military in the world next to the US. They have the money, the tech, the production and most importantly close ties with the patent holder. :japan

Yeah, but then we come back to that same old problem, Politics. You got a better Chance of putting New Zealand on a war fitting by next week then getting Japan to spend more on Defence within the next 10 years. But we must wait on Abe to make a few big calls on that one.

 

[Big-E]

Yeah, but then we come back to that same old problem, Politics. You got a better Chance of putting New Zealand on a war fitting by next week then getting Japan to spend more on Defence within the next 10 years. But we must wait on Abe to make a few big calls on that one.

With this Congress that won't be a problem. MoD is also trying to kick the US presence out of the region so she can maintain more influence. Just look at what happened on Okinawa, they sent the grunts packing.

 

[eckherl]

With this Congress that won't be a problem. MoD is also trying to kick the US presence out of the region so she can maintain more influence. Just look at what happened on Okinawa, they sent the grunts packing.

Do you feel that with the recent current events that they will want us to leave.

 

[Big-E]

Do you feel that with the recent current events that they will want us to leave.

They definetly want us to leave. Every time I walked the streets of Yokosuka in uniform the shop keepers pulled their daughters inside. After hundreds of US sexual assualts on their young girls and women it is no wonder they want us gone. I would to... The Japanese are more than capable of building and fielding a military capable of defending themselves, they don't need us there... it's time to move WESTPACFLT to Guam.

 

[contedicavour]

They definetly want us to leave. Every time I walked the streets of Yokosuka in uniform the shop keepers pulled their daughters inside. After hundreds of US sexual assualts on their young girls and women it is no wonder they want us gone. I would to... The Japanese are more than capable of building and fielding a military capable of defending themselves, they don't need us there... it's time to move WESTPACFLT to Guam.

I agree that with Koizumi before and Abe today Japan is increasing its defence forces' strength and Japan's assertiveness internationally. So they need the US much less. Besides, they are also reliable allies, so they would still open up bases to the US in case of need.

cheers

 

[eckherl]

They definetly want us to leave. Every time I walked the streets of Yokosuka in uniform the shop keepers pulled their daughters inside. After hundreds of US sexual assualts on their young girls and women it is no wonder they want us gone. I would to... The Japanese are more than capable of building and fielding a military capable of defending themselves, they don't need us there... it's time to move WESTPACFLT to Guam.

I can believe it - this is some of the same crap that U.S soldiers are doing in South Korea, every time it happens you see nothing but mass riots with people telling us to leave, and can you really blame them.

 

[Rich]

They definetly want us to leave. Every time I walked the streets of Yokosuka in uniform the shop keepers pulled their daughters inside. After hundreds of US sexual assualts on their young girls and women it is no wonder they want us gone. I would to... The Japanese are more than capable of building and fielding a military capable of defending themselves, they don't need us there... it's time to move WESTPACFLT to Guam.

Hundreds?? Ive heard of like two or three. If there are "hundreds" then please name the source you are getting these statistics from. Personaly I find it kinda repulsive you would spread these kind of rumors on the internet. Unless they have changed things in the US military since Ive been in, and I doubt that, rape is the last thing a young soldier would want to be looking at.

And then there is the fact the father of said shopkeeper may possibly be one of the millions of Japanese troops who raped, tortured, murdered, and en-slaved their way thru an Asian rampage in a manner American troops never would. Funny how people forget eh?

Anyways....its time we told the Japanese to protect themselves.

 

[eckherl]

Hundreds?? Ive heard of like two or three. If there are "hundreds" then please name the source you are getting these statistics from. Personaly I find it kinda repulsive you would spread these kind of rumors on the internet. Unless they have changed things in the US military since Ive been in, and I doubt that, rape is the last thing a young soldier would want to be looking at.

And then there is the fact the father of said shopkeeper may possibly be one of the millions of Japanese troops who raped, tortured, murdered, and en-slaved their way thru an Asian rampage in a manner American troops never would. Funny how people forget eh?

Anyways....its time we told the Japanese to protect themselves.

Big E is over estimating the numbers but they do have some issues with this on occasion in Japan and South Korea, it just gives the anti American folks over there something more to scream about. Any U.S soldier that is involved in this type of behavior is dealt with severe punishment. You don`t get out of military prisons on good behavior, you do all of your time.

 

[ever4244]

No wonder the insurgence in Iraq was so fierce .

 

[abramsteve]

The debate on Japanese rearmorment is always interesting. I did a uni assignment on it early this year, and the can of worms it opens is huge. The funniest thing I found was when I asked my grandparents what they though (my Grandad being a Pacific Vet) and they thought it was a terrible idea! Yet ask them what, aside from the obvious, reasons they are so against it and they struggle.

Its a difficult big picture/little picture thing... definatey a hard one.

 

[swerve]

They definetly want us to leave. Every time I walked the streets of Yokosuka in uniform the shop keepers pulled their daughters inside. After hundreds of US sexual assualts on their young girls and women it is no wonder they want us gone. I would to... The Japanese are more than capable of building and fielding a military capable of defending themselves, they don't need us there... it's time to move WESTPACFLT to Guam.

I think if the US troops were subject to Japanese law, instead of being tried by the US military (which has traditionally been lenient in such cases), attitudes might be different. Same in Korea.

 

[swerve]

Big E is over estimating the numbers

Not really. There were 169 cases resulting in courts-martial between 1988 & 1995 in Japan, by the USN & USMC alone. And locals protest bitterly about the number who weren't prosecuted, becasue the majority of reported sexual assaults didn't result in a prosecution. And remember that women in Japan are no more likely than elsewhere in the world (& less so than in the USA) to report a sexual assault, so it's likely that even more go unreported. 200 rapes (as distinct from lesser sexual assaults) by US servicemen were recorded between 1972 & 1997 on Okinawa alone.

NB. In these cases, courts-martial are commonly not held for lesser offences, or where the accused confesses. So in 1988, a marine on Okinawa received a reprimand for the attempted rape of a 17 year old girl. And he's not in the count of 169.

Only a few cases get big publicity, & they're usually the extreme ones, such as the famous 1995 case where 3 marines raped a 12 year old in Okinawa, or the 2000 case where a marine assaulted a 14 year old in her own bed, having sneaked into her family home.

So in fact, Big-E is underestimating. Since WW2, the figure is certainly in the thousands, not hundreds.

Any U.S soldier that is involved in this type of behavior is dealt with severe punishment. You don`t get out of military prisons on good behavior, you do all of your time.

If so, that's very recent. I remember cases where locals were protesting about US soldiers facing much lighter charges than they would have done under local law, & there was a time when many would not even have been prosecuted - maybe transferred. In 1991, for example, a sentence of 6 months confinement was given for raping a Japanese woman. In another case, a sailor accused of attempted rape was fined $150 & dismissed from the service for indecent assault.

 

[eckherl]

Not really. There were 169 cases resulting in courts-martial between 1988 & 1995 in Japan, by the USN & USMC alone. And locals protest bitterly about the number who weren't prosecuted, becasue the majority of reported sexual assaults didn't result in a prosecution. And remember that women in Japan are no more likely than elsewhere in the world (& less so than in the USA) to report a sexual assault, so it's likely that even more go unreported. 200 rapes (as distinct from lesser sexual assaults) by US servicemen were recorded between 1972 & 1997 on Okinawa alone.

NB. In these cases, courts-martial are commonly not held for lesser offences, or where the accused confesses. So in 1988, a marine on Okinawa received a reprimand for the attempted rape of a 17 year old girl. And he's not in the count of 169.

Only a few cases get big publicity, & they're usually the extreme ones, such as the famous 1995 case where 3 marines raped a 12 year old in Okinawa, or the 2000 case where a marine assaulted a 14 year old in her own bed, having sneaked into her family home.

So in fact, Big-E is underestimating. Since WW2, the figure is certainly in the thousands, not hundreds.



If so, that's very recent. I remember cases where locals were protesting about US soldiers facing much lighter charges than they would have done under local law, & there was a time when many would not even have been prosecuted - maybe transferred. In 1991, for example, a sentence of 6 months confinement was given for raping a Japanese woman. In another case, a sailor accused of attempted rape was fined $150 & dismissed from the service for indecent assault.

Wow - I did not realize that this was happening at this magnitude with the Navy and Marines in Japan. I guess with light sentences like that you would be putting out the wrong message. There in no excuse for that type of behavior.