T-90 in Comparison to Western Armour

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eckherl

The Bunker Group
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Hmmm, couple of week back there was a news about MoD having cleared procurement of 123 'next generation' BMP-2K, armed with 30mm 2A 72 two-belt automatic cannon, a 100mm 2A 70 semiautomatic gun, three 7.62mm PKT machine guns and the 9K 117 BASTION machine gun, weighing 21 T. While the main armament matches BMP-3 weight does not. We have been wondering about it. Here is the news report.
This is a totally different vehicle than what I was told, BMPT is based on the T-90 hull. :)
 

Chrom

New Member
This is a totally different vehicle than what I was told, BMPT is based on the T-90 hull. :)
That BMP-2K judging from armament and weigth look like ERA-ed BMP-3M. In that case i fear the cost will be , ugh , terrible. There are no words yet about export BMPT, and i will not expect anything in next 2-3 years as everyone will be looking how it works in service.
Btw, all BMP's beginning from BMP-1 also got NBC protection.
 

kams

New Member
This is a totally different vehicle than what I was told, BMPT is based on the T-90 hull. :)
I know about BMPT (T-72 hull). But the vehicle described above does not match anything currently being produced.

That BMP-2K judging from armament and weigth look like ERA-ed BMP-3M. In that case i fear the cost will be , ugh , terrible.
As I understand; India evaluated BMP-3 and decided not to go ahead. The cost quoted for the above vehicle is $90 million for 123 units.

Apart from the above report I have not heard anything, will try to find out:) .
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
That BMP-2K judging from armament and weigth look like ERA-ed BMP-3M. In that case i fear the cost will be , ugh , terrible. There are no words yet about export BMPT, and i will not expect anything in next 2-3 years as everyone will be looking how it works in service.
Btw, all BMP's beginning from BMP-1 also got NBC protection.
The BMPT looks like a pretty good urban fighter, What caught my interest was the Kornet missle launcher with capibility to fire a thermobaric high explosive warhead. (Nasty), this is based on the T-90 hull with Kontakt-5 armor correct?
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Message for Kams - can you find out what boresight range the Indian army goes by for the T-90s. Also what type of combat KE round do they use, if you can get me the Russiam Model number I can figure out the rest for some info I am compiling. Thank you
 

aaaditya

New Member
Hmmm, couple of week back there was a news about MoD having cleared procurement of 123 'next generation' BMP-2K, armed with 30mm 2A 72 two-belt automatic cannon, a 100mm 2A 70 semiautomatic gun, three 7.62mm PKT machine guns and the 9K 117 BASTION machine gun, weighing 21 T. While the main armament matches BMP-3 weight does not. We have been wondering about it. Here is the news report.
thanks kams,i would realy appreciate ,if you could post the link for the above article,i feel that this vehicle though heavily loaded with all the gadgetry would be cramped for the troops ,the russian armoured vehicles were never famous for space or luxury .

also are you sure if the 9k117 bastion is a machine gun,the designation sounds more like an anti tank missile ,most probably the kornet.
 

extern

New Member
I would think maybe around the late nineties due to the fact that South Korean T-80`s have air conditioning, I could be wrong though.
Maybe Extern knows that answer. I am getting a little off subject but I would like to ask you about a rumor flying around that India is looking at the BMPT for possible purchase, any truth behind this.
It is strong fact that A/C was on the T-90's that were over the tests in Parakan (India) at 1999. This is a Russian article ("Chelyabinsk Laborer" newspaper) that speaks about the tests in july 1999, when the russian test-crew happen to run from the heat under the A/C inside their tanks: http://www.chelpress.ru/newspapers/chelrab/archive/17-07-1999/2/A11152.DOC.shtml Also I remember another source says T-90S was offered for India with A/C.
I donno why some armies sometimes prefere to buy armored vehicles without A/C. Also UAE bought BMP-3 without A/C despite Russian offers, this mistake cost them much, bcz at the end they asked it. May by the generals think their soldiers will spend worktime relaxing under A/C :D
 

Chrom

New Member
I know about BMPT (T-72 hull). But the vehicle described above does not match anything currently being produced.



As I understand; India evaluated BMP-3 and decided not to go ahead. The cost quoted for the above vehicle is $90 million for 123 units.

Apart from the above report I have not heard anything, will try to find out:) .
Hmm, price sounds like BMP2/3/BTR-90/whatever uparmored hull with BMP-3 turret without (western) thermal camera. Obviously more expencive gizmos like 3d generation ERA or Arena are not included here. Are there no pictures in web?
 

Chrom

New Member
The BMPT looks like a pretty good urban fighter, What caught my interest was the Kornet missle launcher with capibility to fire a thermobaric high explosive warhead. (Nasty), this is based on the T-90 hull with Kontakt-5 armor correct?
Actually, T-72 hull... but you cant differenciate T-90 hull from upgraded T-72 hull so you can choose either option without mistake. Also, most present russian rockets/missiles have optional thermobaric warhead.
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
It is strong fact that A/C was on the T-90's that were over the tests in Parakan (India) at 1999. This is a Russian article ("Chelyabinsk Laborer" newspaper) that speaks about the tests in july 1999, when the russian test-crew happen to run from the heat under the A/C inside their tanks: http://www.chelpress.ru/newspapers/chelrab/archive/17-07-1999/2/A11152.DOC.shtml Also I remember another source says T-90S was offered for India with A/C.
I donno why some armies sometimes prefere to buy armored vehicles without A/C. Also UAE bought BMP-3 without A/C despite Russian offers, this mistake cost them much, bcz at the end they asked it. May by the generals think their soldiers will spend worktime relaxing under A/C :D
I agree - South Korea placed them on the BMP 3 in their inventory, it doesn`t make sense if you have the option to have A/C and not go with it, especially in a desert environment or South East Asian environment. You start getting into combat or live fire exercises and the temperature climbs drasticaly in side a tank to a point where everything starts overheating.:)
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Actually, T-72 hull... but you cant differenciate T-90 hull from upgraded T-72 hull so you can choose either option without mistake. Also, most present russian rockets/missiles have optional thermobaric warhead.
A nice round for clearing out a Building.
 

kams

New Member
Message for Kams - can you find out what boresight range the Indian army goes by for the T-90s.
I am bit confused by the phrase 'boresight range'. Could you elaborate a bit/
Also what type of combat KE round do they use, if you can get me the Russiam Model number I can figure out the rest for some info I am compiling. Thank you
Spent 2 hours to get a definitive answer, but all in vain:( . Not sure about which Russian KE they use. They also use some Israeli APFSDS. Give me a bit more time.
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I am bit confused by the phrase 'boresight range'. Could you elaborate a bit/


Spent 2 hours to get a definitive answer, but all in vain:( . Not sure about which Russian KE they use. They also use some Israeli APFSDS. Give me a bit more time.
This is the alignment of the tank sights to the gun, all tanks have to perform periodic boresighting due to ambient temperature changes ie: thermal bending of the gun tube, firing of live ammunition, etc,etc. depending on which type of tank that you are using or sight systems the ranges vary, on a M1 series the boresight range is 1200 meters due to sight parallax in the gunners auxillary sight, this is the sight that would be used if you had major damage to your turret electronics/primary sighting system, you have no power going to it.
 

Archer

New Member
these Indian tanks don't appear to be fitted with NBC protection at all. - overpressure kits are normally part of the A/C.
They have NBC gear - they dont have airconditioners or microcooling for the vetronics. Dont mix up the two; the crew are to get locally developing cooling jackets with piped water, and the vetronics will get microcooling from kinetics of israel.

which is atrocious bean counting on display...
The ac for the Arjun was not dropped because of cost, but because of the power it sucked up from the powerpack at full load, almost a 100 hp and double that. In Indian experience, all engines derate under prolonged deployment in the Thar (temperature in the shade / and inside tanks reaches 50 degrees centigrade), and crew discomfort was deemed secondary to operational manoeuverability, for which high combat power was necessary. The Arjun is more roomy than a T-72, so crews who bake in T-72s bake lesser in Arjuns. At the height of the Parakram standoff, both Indian and Pak crews had a heck of a time with their armour, in summer.
 

Archer

New Member
There is not external AC on the indian T-90S. The customer desagreed to include it. I think, because it rise the cost .
One of the more stupid mistakes of the Indian Army which hopefully, they will fix. As I mentioned earlier, power derating was cited as a reason for not purchasing/deploying the ACs, but as is obvious- the AC need not be on all the time.
 

extern

New Member
It looks like a good vehicle, I wander why the dual 23mm was their choice over the 30mm.
It is 30mm dual autogun with all spectrum of munition from antiarmor projectiles to antiinfantry fragmented with timing explosion (the last is quite impossible with 23mm).
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
It is 30mm dual autogun with all spectrum of munition from antiarmor projectiles to antiinfantry fragmented with timing explosion (the last is quite impossible with 23mm).
Thank you for the correction - it has even better firepower.:)
 
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