I saw a WW2 era filmclip where an Afrika Korps tanker fried an egg on his Panzer's hull. Those guys seemed to have performed adequately though. It's not so humid in the desert at least.
T-90 in Comparison to Western Armour
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The Russian tanks really have less space, but also 33% less crew. THus it is well compensated. You can see, how the Russian tankmen are working into the tank and BMPT on this video:
http://www.webfile.ru/1195076
Are you sure? Do younno, that in most western tanks, the ammo is stored not only under blowoff panels but also in the hull? In Leo2 that is asumed to be 'the best western tank', the part of the ammo is apropos lie down just befor the gunner:
Yes - a weakness for the LEO2.
Question for you Extern - which tank do feel is the best western tank and could you give me a reason why.
I bet on last variants of Abrams, bcz its well elaborated armor and ammo storage. If its behemoth turret is reduced as it was planned before, and the autoloader is put, it will be the world better tank in my eyes untill the future gen come:Yes - a weakness for the LEO2.
Question for you Extern - which tank do feel is the best western tank and could you give me a reason why.
AH - I see you have some pictures of the Challenger test beds.
And thank you for your opinion, I think alot of folks out there have seen some of them that have been taken out by road side bombs and RPG hits to the rear end and they feel it`s not a good tank, There is no tank that is out there that can with stand that type of combat. Tanks suck in a urbanized environment. Out of the ones that have been taken out of action, only a hand full have been complete write offs.
Jup, the hull ammo storage of the Leo II is a weakness.
BTW, the storage is next to the driver on the left and not in front of him.
Either your driver is dead meat or your tank is blown to pieces when frontal hull is penetrated.
Both no good choices.
BTW, the storage is next to the driver on the left and not in front of him.
Either your driver is dead meat or your tank is blown to pieces when frontal hull is penetrated.
Both no good choices.
Hmm... Keenly I never was into the Leo2, may be I did misunderstand something
powerslavenegi
New Member
Hm.. well it will be intresting if someone could furbish similar schematic diagrams of Abrams and the Chally-2.
If there is a hull penetration the driver is pretty much gone, but the turret crew members have a chance to get out, Leo does have a good fire suppression system installed, plus the ammunition casings is made out of combustible material. I would take this any day versus sitting on top of a ammunition auto cylinder and having ammo strapped close to your turret crew members.:shudderNo problem. The result remains the same. If the frontal hull is penetrated you have a big problem.
The picture shows it. The driver on the right and the reserve ammo on the left.
The problem is that the reserve ammo in the hull is not seperated and not protected by blowout panels. Just the turret ammo storage is.
So if the hull ammo is hit no fire surpression is going to save you.
Here's a picture It's a dutch Leo IIA5/A6 hull without turret:
[img=http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3521/niedleo2wannebu1.th.png]
So if the hull ammo is hit no fire surpression is going to save you.
Here's a picture It's a dutch Leo IIA5/A6 hull without turret:
[img=http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3521/niedleo2wannebu1.th.png]
Huh - I was informed that due to the casing the biggest concern would be flash fire with occasional cook off of the ammunition, thus the fire suppression system could give the turret crew a chance to get out. But looking at the picture I see your point also, average temperature of this type of shell casing when they burn is 3600 to 3800 degree`s. We have had crew members killed on the M1A1 Series due to shell shavings that collect on the breech mechanism, it got so bad that in the late eighties it was a requirement that we switched to nomex jump suites with gloves and barclava`s. We do for the most part have the issue resolved now. Very nasty ingredients that go into the making of the shell casings.
They also told us that the fire surpression system and our fire proved clothes might save us.
But I really doubt that when the 32 rounds begin to spray their fire everywhere.
And I also doubt that non of the HEAT or HE rounds is going to explode. And if this happens nothing saves you.
But I really doubt that when the 32 rounds begin to spray their fire everywhere.
And I also doubt that non of the HEAT or HE rounds is going to explode. And if this happens nothing saves you.
Yep - and if the crew is buttoned up and the fire suppression system goes off the lack of oxygen can also be a factor, I know first hand due to the fact that it happened to me and my gunner, he still sends me a Christmas card every year.They also told us that the fire surpression system and our fire proved clothes might save us.
But I really doubt that when the 32 rounds begin to spray their fire everywhere.
And I also doubt that non of the HEAT or HE rounds is going to explode. And if this happens nothing saves you.
I thought you guy`s kept your HE inside the turret bustle?Normal combat load for a fight against enemy mech/armored formations would be 30 KE and 12 HEAT (We call it MZ for Mehrzweck=Multipurpose) with 10 KE and 5 HEAT in the turret storage and the 27 rounds in the hull storage.
MZ is on its way out and being replaced by a HE round.
And with current operations in mind there are more MZ and HE onboard like when the Leos rolled into Kosovo.
MZ is on its way out and being replaced by a HE round.
And with current operations in mind there are more MZ and HE onboard like when the Leos rolled into Kosovo.
I hope that we stick to the possible plan of going to a true HE type of projectile, heat rounds are okay with certain building structures but the performance is nil for troops out in the open. Plus HE is a blast to shoot at long ranges. (They are slow and have high flight angles)
That's what our MoD also thinks.
The armor penetration capabilities of the HEAT are wasted space.
Against everything seriously armored you can use the KE. It will do the job.
And against light vehicles, structures and infantry you need a pure HE round.
It is not like a 120mm HE round is not going to go through nearly every normal structure. Our HE has a V0 of 950m/s while using a L/44 and 1.100m/s while using a L/55. It is also programmable. So the whole spectrum of targets is much better covered while using a mix of KE and HE rounds than using KE and HEAT rounds.
The armor penetration capabilities of the HEAT are wasted space.
Against everything seriously armored you can use the KE. It will do the job.
And against light vehicles, structures and infantry you need a pure HE round.
It is not like a 120mm HE round is not going to go through nearly every normal structure. Our HE has a V0 of 950m/s while using a L/44 and 1.100m/s while using a L/55. It is also programmable. So the whole spectrum of targets is much better covered while using a mix of KE and HE rounds than using KE and HEAT rounds.
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