China's military power

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Rich

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Musashi_kenshin said:
They want them to die for Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. So of course they would want them to die for a strategic ally facing off against a long-term rival.
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Nobody here "wants" our boys to die for anything. I know you didnt mean anything by this but I just wanted to point out our great intent is to make the enemy die instead of our boys and were pretty good at it. Our casualties sadden us, as do the ones of our allies, and I'm sure you Brits feel the same. Warriors "choose" their lives and with it the risks. Its been like that since the first spear was chucked.

And as far as super power confrontations go this regional Pacific naval war would cost far less in blood then a clash of armies on land. And Im sure it makes the Chinese pause, this getting into "our" kind of high tech naval war. If I can warn them now I'd say its the wrong kind of war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and against the wrong enemy. Maybe one day they will cross a thresh-hold of capability where such a confrontation might pay some dividends but it wont be for a long, long time.

If we want to prevent such a conflict in the future we'd better not run our navy down and our naval air arm.
 
Musashi_kenshin

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
Rich said:
Nobody here "wants" our boys to die for anything. I know you didnt mean anything by this but I just wanted to point out our great intent is to make the enemy die instead of our boys and were pretty good at it.
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Maybe it's better to say "are prepared for them to die".
 
icelord

icelord

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Grand Danois said:
Always thought that was a Patton quote...
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oops, yeah its patton, i'll fix it.:tomato
Been looking at churchill, it sounded like somethin the old bastard would say, but hell, both were tough old bastards who knew what to say and when to say it.
 
L

long live usa

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kams said:
What kind of conflict scenario you guys are envisaging?

1. Local conflict leading to international intervention (read China vs US in case Taiwan formally declares independence, surprise element is with Taiwan/US)
2. Local conflict, China annexes Taiwan (surprise element is with China)
3. A Global conflict involving Sino-Russian alliance vs Taiwan/US/Japan. If you want to muddy the water more, say commies get majority in Indian Parliament and throw their weight with Sino-Russian alliance. (We do have elected commies in two states and they take their orders from Mao - directly from heaven:D :D )

Scenario 1 and 2 are more likely, while 3 is bit far fetched.
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Wow I have been gone for awhile. But I have finnaly became a true Soldier of God, So my GMD skills have became a bit rusty, but ill give it a try.

kams: You have pointed out some very interesting scenarios. Your 3rd scenario is interesting. Here is my two cents
Japan would be able to hold its own albeit they may sustain a bloody nose,
Taiwan would have alot of trouble fending off Sino/Indian atacks and if left high and dry it could very well fold
America would be in no danger, although atempting a land invasion of Asia would be suicide. A fierce battle for the coast would be fought with the USN coming out on top, albeit bruised. Stand-off weapons would be used to great effect as well. But in your scenario does the Communist side include N korea? Also would it involve an atack into the Stan countries? But I doubt Russia would be making any sort of atack into Eastern Europe.

Its been fun to get back and post again. I will try to drop in when I can, but my studies keep me sort of busy. But I will still look forward to getting back on whenever I can to have some good disscussion!
See you guys later.
 
Musashi_kenshin

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
Xerxesa said:
you got to be kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they are rivals
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The idea that Taiwan wold have to worry about India is quite laughable. If anything India is a friendly power, but unfortunately it would be highly unlikely it would intervene to protect Taipei.
 
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contedicavour

New Member
Musashi_kenshin said:
The idea that Taiwan wold have to worry about India is quite laughable. If anything India is a friendly power, but unfortunately it would be highly unlikely it would intervene to protect Taipei.
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Nope, only the US would help Taiwan, and even that would only happen if Taiwan acts cautiously and abstains from declaring outright independence. Japan might provide logistical help.

cheers
 
Musashi_kenshin

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
contedicavour said:
Nope, only the US would help Taiwan, and even that would only happen if Taiwan acts cautiously and abstains from declaring outright independence. Japan might provide logistical help.
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Well I'm not sure there ever would be a UDI, because Taiwanese independence supporters refuse to accept Taiwan was ever part of the PRC. What they normally do is try to state the bloody obvious (that Taiwan is already an independent, self-functioning state). President Chen has said many times that there are two countries across the Straits. So it would have to be something pretty blatent and stupendous to make the US stay away.

Japan currently would not get directly involved, but that may change if they reform the Constitution to allow for collective self-defence. After all if the US intervened it would come under attack by Chinese forces, which would then allow the JSDF to help out too (even if only providing backup).
 
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contedicavour

New Member
Musashi_kenshin said:
Well I'm not sure there ever would be a UDI, because Taiwanese independence supporters refuse to accept Taiwan was ever part of the PRC. What they normally do is try to state the bloody obvious (that Taiwan is already an independent, self-functioning state). President Chen has said many times that there are two countries across the Straits. So it would have to be something pretty blatent and stupendous to make the US stay away.

Japan currently would not get directly involved, but that may change if they reform the Constitution to allow for collective self-defence. After all if the US intervened it would come under attack by Chinese forces, which would then allow the JSDF to help out too (even if only providing backup).
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Well mainland China can accept the logic of "2 Chinas", not a unilateral declaration of independence... The US was pretty clear that if Chen went too far to state the obvious (that Taiwan is already independent) Taiwan would have to assume the consequences.
Anyway, the KMT party is likely to win the next elections, and even Chen's party considers a priority continued economic development over useless symbolic declarations.

cheers
 
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ever4244

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russia would not assist us neither would they embargo us. For it their interest to see both China and US weakened .obviously they can earn a lot by selling weapon and oid in a unreasonable price.
all US ally excluded japan will stay out of it for fearing revenge by china---for many of them has strong tie with china also.-----even china fall her wrath is disaster for them.
EU and india will ride the fence ----of course more lean to US
US will not direct interfere if Taiwain announce division . For all UN nation consider it s part of china, and it give US full excuse to abandon Taiwan while not cause the domino offect.----there is no enforced pack between US and taiwan.but surely they will assist taiwan a lot .
China must make sure she can take taiwan within a week. For that is time when US can gather enough its troop to interfere( whin 4 carrier fleet is not enough). when war become too long, US will gather its strengh and try to interfere in someway.
PLUS: to war with a globle power must have a globle reason, and taiwan won t be a globe reason when it still remain legally a part of china by UN resolution and it own constitution. Taiwan is crucial to Japan but not so crucial to US for US has devide it s egg all over the world . She has to look out in the middle east , Eu and east Asia. I wonder if all the so called evil axis defiance US in the same time will US open war with them all together .
 
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eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I believe China will play the waiting game in regards Taiwan, she has too much to lose trying to flex any type of military muscle with the U.S, as far as South Korea getting involved in this potential conflict, do not be so sure of this, they are not going to take a chance of North Korea getting involved in this conflict because they will feel the full brunt of North Korea`s wrath with China`s backing. South Korea has better friendship ties with China than they do with Japan, (it`s the old trust issue). China pretty much at this point has been dealt a very bad blow due to North Korea detonating their nuke and test firing missiles close to Japan, they cannot afford to have a country like Japan with her economy to start entering the arms race and that is just what is going to happen now because of North Korea. Any ambitions that China may of had are pretty much flushed down the crapper. They will never be able to take on the United States and Japan, and Russia and India will do nothing to help, Russia is only making money from China due to military equipment sales and she knows that with her natural resources that the big money will be with Europe needing oil and natural gas. So I guess a big heart felt thank you needs to be handed to uncle Kim Jong IL for two reasons ie:
1. Japan will most likely buy her weapons from my country thus helping out our economy.
2. For messing things up with China
 
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Big-E

Banned Member
eckherl said:
Russia is only making money from China due to military equipment sales and she knows that with her natural resources that the big money will be with Europe needing oil and natural gas.
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Wouldn't it be something if China turns around and bites Russia in the bear's behind.
 
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eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Big-E said:
Wouldn't it be something if China turns around and bites Russia in the bear's behind.
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Yes that would be something, and the Europeans will be begging for us to step in and help Russia so that their oil and natural gas supplies don`t become disrupted. We would eventually end up getting involved but I would hope that we would stand back for a little bit and watch the show.:D
 
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Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I have no doubts about that.
Even if it would be a useless territory Russia would never stand back.
And it is far away of being "just siberia".
The natural resources there are a vital part of Russias future.
Just remember that the USA, UK and France would use Nuclear weapons in case of an attack at any NATO country.
Why do you think Russia would not if their homeland is under attack?
 
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Big-E

Banned Member
Waylander said:
I have no doubts about that.
Even if it would be a useless territory Russia would never stand back.
And it is far away of being "just siberia".
The natural resources there are a vital part of Russias future.
Just remember that the USA, UK and France would use Nuclear weapons in case of an attack at any NATO country.
Why do you think Russia would not if their homeland is under attack?
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I was asking because no one really knows how many warheads PROC has. I doubt they would publish the actual number they have weaponized.
 
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