Republic of Singapore Air Force Discussions

swerve

Super Moderator
Maybe an ASW version of the HC-27J and MC-27J is the fastest and safest choice. Besides that it can be developed domestically.
The ATR-72 can be equipped for ASW (I think it was designed in, but not chosen by Italy: I'm not sure if any other ATR-72 MPA operators have fitted it), & doing that could be the quickest, lowest-risk way to upgrade Italian airborne ASW capability. But that'd still be rather limited, & realistically only an interim upgrade pending the introduction of more capable aircraft.

I expect that the P-8 could be got into service earlier than any other full capacity ASW aircraft.
 

SolarisKenzo

Well-Known Member
The ATR-72 can be equipped for ASW (I think it was designed in, but not chosen by Italy: I'm not sure if any other ATR-72 MPA operators have fitted it), & doing that could be the quickest, lowest-risk way to upgrade Italian airborne ASW capability. But that'd still be rather limited, & realistically only an interim upgrade pending the introduction of more capable aircraft.

I expect that the P-8 could be got into service earlier than any other full capacity ASW aircraft.
I confirm Italian P-72 fleet is not equipped with ASW weapons, they only perform support missions to armed assets like P8 or Atlantic 2 of other NATO allies.

The planes will not be equipped with weapons because it is not feasible (not sure if they meant it's not possible because of how the Italian planes were equipped or because it would cost too much).
 

koxinga

Well-Known Member
The ATR-72 can be equipped for ASW (I think it was designed in, but not chosen by Italy: I'm not sure if any other ATR-72 MPA operators have fitted it), & doing that could be the quickest, lowest-risk way to upgrade Italian airborne ASW capability.
Turkey's ATR72 are fitted for ASW.


The platform is versatile, you see the Malaysian version with Leonardo kit and the Philippines version with Elbit kit and the Turks with a mix of Thales and domestic systems.

But the ATR platform is limited due to slow speed and range, even when compared to a P3. The only advantage (aside from sensors) is cost due to the commercial platform.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
MPA are all based on commercial platforms. A bigger platforms means more exotic sensor kit and extended range but also a bigger price. The ATR72 offers sufficient capability for some nations at an affordable price. The AEW market has the E7 but for many nations the Saab GlobalEye/Bombardi.er platform will be a reasonable alternative option.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
MPA are all based on commercial platforms. A bigger platforms means more exotic sensor kit and extended range but also a bigger price. The ATR72 offers sufficient capability for some nations at an affordable price. The AEW market has the E7 but for many nations the Saab GlobalEye/Bombardi.er platform will be a reasonable alternative option.
Almost all. The Kawasaki P-1 is a purpose-built aircraft with no civil model.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
But the ATR platform is limited due to slow speed and range, even when compared to a P3.
And size. It's much smaller & lighter than a P-8/Boeing 737 or A321, or even the old Lockheed Electra (basis of the P-3), or some of the bizjets proposed for the MPA role such as the Global 6000 (almost twice the max TO weight) or G550, which limits what sensors & weapons it can carry.
 

motokah

New Member


Singapore acquires 4 used C-130Hs to replace even older C-130s

RSAF will replace older C-130B aircraft with secondhand C-130H models, as they are "the best platform to meet our operational needs for the next 15 to 20 years”, says Chief of Air Force Kelvin Fan.

Breaking Defense Article
Straits Times Article






Acquisition of Saab Giraffe 1X radar + Spanish-built Uro Vamtac 4x4 with existing RBS-70 missile system = Motorized short-range air defense capability

Giraffe 1X radar able to detect a wider range of aerial threats, including mini drones.
Both Indonesia & Malaysia have Uro Vamtac 4x4 with STARStreak air defense system.

Aviation Week Article
 

koxinga

Well-Known Member
Well then, in addition to the P-8s, 3 x G550 MPAs will be acquired as well.

This is a major revamp of Singapore's surveillance capabilities. No other country in SEA will even come close to having that level of detection capabilities, in both quality and quantity, plus a high level of fidelity.

4 x G550 in. AEW&C configuration
3 x G550 in MPA configuration (unarmed?)
4 x P-8 for long range MPA/ASW / ASuW

From a doctrine standpoint, it aligns to their approach of having the ability to fight and defend SLOC at long distances , hence the investments in multipler capabilities like surveillance, airborne refueling.

 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Well then, in addition to the P-8s, 3 x G550 MPAs will be acquired as well.

This is a major revamp of Singapore's surveillance capabilities. No other country in SEA will even come close to having that level of detection capabilities, in both quality and quantity, plus a high level of fidelity.

4 x G550 in. AEW&C configuration
3 x G550 in MPA configuration (unarmed?)
4 x P-8 for long range MPA/ASW / ASuW

From a doctrine standpoint, it aligns to their approach of having the ability to fight and defend SLOC at long distances , hence the investments in multipler capabilities like surveillance, airborne refueling.

That's quite a lot for the amount of territorial waters and EEZ Singapore has to guard and patrol.
 

motokah

New Member

Former defence journalist David Boey wrote an commentary on CNA regarding RSAF recent purchase of 3 Gulfstream G550 Maritime Surveillance Aircraft (seems similar to Israel Aerospace Industries G550 “Oron”) and 4 Boeing P-8A Maritime Patrol Aircraft.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

Seems Singapore begin to search alternative asside F-35 for 5th Gen + solution. Yes GCAP being talk as 6th Gen, and can be argue Singapore wants to find replacement for F-35 in future.

However what is Gen 6th ? I still see it is interlapping with future batches of F-35. Perhaps Singapore already think complete reliance toward US systems (F-16, F-15, and F-35) need to be balance just in case someone lile Trump take over the white house again in future.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro

Seems Singapore begin to search alternative asside F-35 for 5th Gen + solution. Yes GCAP being talk as 6th Gen, and can be argue Singapore wants to find replacement for F-35 in future.

However what is Gen 6th ? I still see it is interlapping with future batches of F-35. Perhaps Singapore already think complete reliance toward US systems (F-16, F-15, and F-35) need to be balance just in case someone lile Trump take over the white house again in future.
I’d suggest it’s more likely an F-16 replacement and perhaps in future an F-15 replacement.

It seems unlikely to me they would be wanting to replace their newest fighter first…
 
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koxinga

Well-Known Member
Whether US 6th generation options like the F-47/F/A-XX are exportable is unknown.

Lockheed have proposed upgrading the F-35 with 6th gen technology to create a 5.5 gen (yes, we know that definition is vague). This would imply that the US may not want to export 6th generation technology. US allies would need alternatives then. Japan/UK already have GCAP, French, Germans would find a way out of their current FCAS mess, then you have other allies like the rest of NATO, Eastern Europe, Swiss, ANZ, Canada, Singapore, Taiwan etc who will look on to find out their options in the 6th generation space.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
suggest it’s more likely an F-16 replacement and perhaps in future an F-15 replacement.
Agree on any option by Singapore at this moment is to replace their F-16 and F-15. However previously I tought they will put their effort to get next batches of Gen 5+ F-35. So far that's the way they are doing on gradual improvement from F-16 A/B to C/D and continue improvement packages.

Getting toward non US 6th gen supplier showen difference approach in my opinion. Perhaps as @koxinga suggest that the potential US will not import their 6th gen. However replacing US as contractor supplier, is in my opinion big changes for Singapore that ussualy very concern on the logistical foot print.
 
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