Republic of Singapore Air Force Discussions

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
@OPSSG , a practical question, would SAF be able to provide direct military assistance to Ukraine, say through the United States?
1. As a small burden sharing country, we are a responsible partner nation of FPDA, the United States and a few others. To that end, Singapore has:
(i) provided humanitarian aid to Ukraine (by donating ambulances, fire engines and other supplies through the Red Cross); and​
(ii) voiced MFA’s principled objection to the Russian invasion at the UN and enacted sanctions on Russia too.​

2. At this stage, arming Ukraine would burn the last bridge with Russia and the amount of weapons we can provide is insignificant. IMO, Singapore is not a European power or privy to NATO coordination meetings on arming Ukraine. As a small nation, we should focus our limited military resources and networks on ASEAN, as our backyard.

3. But ASEAN as a whole is declining in relevance; with Indonesian as chairman this year, Singapore’s MFA can try to coordinate better with likeminded nations to manage great power competition and improve great power relations with ASEAN members. Money is better spent:
(a) training with the US Marines & their F-35Bs; or training with the Marine Nationale & their carrier based Rafales;​
(b) working with ADMM Plus 8 partners, which I might remind you, includes China and Russia; and​
(c) on soft power initiatives like hosting the Shangri-La Dialogue along with ADMM exercises and these soft power initiates includes providing evacuation of civilians from conflict zones, HADR, medical assistance and disaster assistance via RSAF aircraft or RSN ships. The effort to of the Singapore Civil Defence rescue teams (which has long and distinguished track record), earns good will abroad.​

Singapore retired its I-HAWK batteries around 2020 upon the operationalisation of SAMP/T ASTER-30 for upper tier air defense.
4. Aster-30 is only one of the layers; but the bigger issue for our IADS is lack of manpower to keep operating older missile systems
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Those would be rather useful, or even the stock of upgraded HAWK missiles, which are aging in stockpiles.
5. No idea of the status of the iHawk — the missiles could be time expired or kept as war reserves. And, as you know, war reserves can also be used for the extended defence of Singapore, if requested by a fellow ASEAN nation, in a time of need (eg. extended deterrence for use in the Natuna islands).

6. We just need to watch our corner of the world. Keep in mind that we can only play the card of war reserves — once.

(a) Under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (in Aug 1940), Hitler and Stalin divided Eastern Europe. Finns were a bit naive and wanted to believe democracies would help other democracies — the Soviet invasion of Finland sparked international outrage but little actual help. In Mar 1940, after much fighting, Finland was forced to sue for peace. Stalin agreed only because external intervention seemed to be only a matter of time. 11 % of Finnish territory, including the second most important city, was lost.​
(b) Currently, no one is obliged to defend Singapore but quite a few countries, including Australia and at least 2 UNSC members, will be consulted if a hostile party shoots at the SAF. So it might not be the best idea to empty out Singapore’s limited war reserves — when the war is not in Asia.​

7. If the US or any NATO member, like Estonia, or Latvia, wants to buy 40mm or 155mm ammo from Singapore, it is likely that ST Engineering would honour such commercial requests.
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
The problem Finland had was that the only routes it had to the outside world that couldn't be easily blocked by the USSR & its new friend Germany were through Sweden & Norway, which were desperately trying to stay out of the war because they knew they couldn't fight off either the USSR or Germany.
 

koxinga

Well-Known Member
That is a lot, especially the GBU-38 (900)


SINGAPORE – AIR-TO-GROUND MUNITIONS KITS AND SERVICES
PDF Version
Press Release - Singapore 23-03 CN.pdf
Media/Public Contact
[email protected]
Transmittal No
23-03
WASHINGTON, February 9, 2023 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Singapore of air-to-ground munitions kits, and related equipment and services for an estimated cost of $55 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.
The Government of Singapore has requested to buy one hundred (100) KMU-556 Tail Kits for Joint Direct-Attack Munition (JDAM) GBU-31; nine hundred (900) KMU-572 Tail Kits for JDAM GBU-38 and Laser JDAM GBU-54; two hundred fifty (250) MAU-169 Computer Control Group for 500lb Paveway-II (PWII) GBU-12; and two hundred fifty (250) MXU-650 Air Foil Group for 500lb PWII GBU-12. Also included are DSU-38 laser guidance sets; Common Munitions Built-In-Test (BIT)/Reprogramming Equipment (CMBRE); spare parts, consumables, and accessories, and repair and return support; aircraft and munitions support and support equipment; personnel training and training equipment; unclassified software; unclassified technical books and other publications; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services, studies and surveys; and other related elements of logistical and program support. The estimated total cost is $55 million.
This proposed sale will support the foreign policy and national security objectives of the United States by improving the security of a strategic partner that is an important force for political stability and economic progress in Asia.
The proposed sale will support the Republic of Singapore Air Force’s capability to contribute to coalition operations and meet its national defense requirements. Singapore will have no difficulty absorbing these articles and services into its armed forces.
This proposed sale will not alter the basic military balance in the region.
The principal contractor will be Raytheon Missile and Defense, Tucson, AZ. A portion of defense articles is anticipated to come from U.S. Government stock. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this sale.
Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any additional U.S. Government or contractor representatives to Singapore.
There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.
This notice of a potential sale is required by law. The description and dollar value is for the highest estimated quantity and dollar value based on initial requirements. Actual dollar value will be lower depending on final requirements, budget authority, and signed sales agreement(s), if and when concluded.
All questions regarding this proposed Foreign Military Sale should be directed to the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs, [email protected].
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
That is a lot, especially the GBU-38 (900)
For an air force with 100 fighters, 1,250 guidance kits is not a lot. The RSAF uses about 200 bombs in one large scale exercise like Forging Sabre; and this is a routine re-stocking order.
 
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StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Singapore air force orders more F-35B's. 8 more.

Singapore also seems to be firming up for the F-35B, there was a belief that they would change to F-35A, but that doesn't seem to be the case, even after more extensive use of F-35A and F-35B with exercises with friends. They are determined to operate F-35B's.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Well, for now. The fleet is still F-16/F-15 centric and this will continue until 2030s. It is too early to rule out the 'A' model.
Agreed. No updates on whether the RSAF will operate a mixed F-35A & F-35B fleet, in subsequent orders, at this time — the 12 F-35B will form the nucleus for the 1st squadron.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Singapore air force orders more F-35B's. 8 more.

Singapore also seems to be firming up for the F-35B, there was a belief that they would change to F-35A, but that doesn't seem to be the case, even after more extensive use of F-35A and F-35B with exercises with friends. They are determined to operate F-35B's.
These 8 aircraft are the original options for their ‘12’ aircraft order. Prior to this announcement they only had 4 firm ordered aircraft.

As it’s options being exercised, I am not sure too much can be drawn from this decision. There is a precedent within the Asia-Pacific region to operate both aircraft in the same fleet…
 

koxinga

Well-Known Member
Agreed. No updates on whether the RSAF will operate a mixed F-35A & F-35B fleet, in subsequent orders, at this time — the 12 F-35B will form the nucleus for the 1st squadron.
There is still a long way to go and RSAF seems invested in the platform.

A highly upgraded variant, with capabilities trickling down by NGAD is an option, given how it bought the F-15 decades later. As a sidenote, they have left silent in the landscape, UCAV and loyal wingman type multi-cooperative UCAV system.

Those would be more significant and attractive to Singapore and RSAF than just another manned fighter replacement.



@koxinga

Source required please.
 
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StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
As it’s options being exercised, I am not sure too much can be drawn from this decision. There is a precedent within the Asia-Pacific region to operate both aircraft in the same fleet…
There seemed to be a lot of speculation around them getting the A instead of the B. That is probably the main news, they are confirming B variants.


It seems as if they have settled on the F-35B and will not acquire any F-35A. Singapore isn't looking at operating a large fleet like Japan who will be one of the largest F-35 operators in the world. I don't think it makes much sense to operate say 12 F-35B and 12 F-35A, they would just be duplicating costs and logistics on a very small fleet. At what numbers does it start to make reasonable sense to diversify into F-35 A and F-35B?

I'm not sure they are that interested in the F-35A. Improved aerobatics and slightly longer range are not overtly important to Singapore for a 5th gen fighter when they still have the quite capable F-15SG.

Also they may be able to embark onto friendly ships in the region. They could contribute specifically to operations regarding the straits.

It isn't clear to me how exactly the straits would be closed. The US-Singapore-Indonesia-Malaysia relationship seems complicated. Being that none are US allies. Being that none really trust each other. Being that each has their own complicated relationship with China and their own weaknesses and sensitive areas with China and each other. With wildly different capabilities and internal issues as well.

It may require a plan other than just flying ops out of Changi or Butterworth.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
There seemed to be a lot of speculation around them getting the A instead of the B. That is probably the main news, they are confirming B variants.


It seems as if they have settled on the F-35B and will not acquire any F-35A. Singapore isn't looking at operating a large fleet like Japan who will be one of the largest F-35 operators in the world. I don't think it makes much sense to operate say 12 F-35B and 12 F-35A, they would just be duplicating costs and logistics on a very small fleet. At what numbers does it start to make reasonable sense to diversify into F-35 A and F-35B?

I'm not sure they are that interested in the F-35A. Improved aerobatics and slightly longer range are not overtly important to Singapore for a 5th gen fighter when they still have the quite capable F-15SG.

Also they may be able to embark onto friendly ships in the region. They could contribute specifically to operations regarding the straits.

It isn't clear to me how exactly the straits would be closed. The US-Singapore-Indonesia-Malaysia relationship seems complicated. Being that none are US allies. Being that none really trust each other. Being that each has their own complicated relationship with China and their own weaknesses and sensitive areas with China and each other. With wildly different capabilities and internal issues as well.

It may require a plan other than just flying ops out of Changi or Butterworth.
Singapore have a long term plan to replace it’s entire F-16 fleet with F-35. That may comprise an all F-35B fleet, it may not as Singapore’s F-35 program acquisition chief stated in only September 2022, per your link. The decision to purchase fighters beyond the initial 12 has not yet been made only a decision to exercise their current 8 aircraft contractual option. Unless of course their plan is to replace their 60x strong F-16 fleet with only 12x F-35B’s, which would be quite the eye opening decision by Singapore... Any further purchases will undergo further assessment and contract negotiations before any decision is made, I expect.

I imagine they are considering closely what they saw at Pitch Black 2022 when reports suggest RAAF F-35A’s performed exceedingly well against RSAF fighters, including the F-15SG… :)
 
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StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Unless of course their plan is to replace their 60x strong F-16 fleet with only 12x F-35B’s, which would be quite the eye opening decision by Singapore... Any further purchases will undergo further assessment and contract negotiations before any decision is made, I expect.
I think they will replace the F-16 1:1 with the F-35, but I think they will be continuing with the F-35B. I don't think a 30:30 mix of F-35A and F-35B does them any good.

I think they will commit the whole lot to F-35B's. Given the capability of the F-35B and the lack of limitations of the F-35B and the advantages for Singapore the B variant is extremely attractive. It will also give Singapore one of the largest F-35B fleets in the world.

  • Also Singapore operates the KC130J, so has an additional 5 refuelling aircraft for the F-35B, which makes its capabilities and range far superior the F-35A.
  • The short field performance is also critical. While some countries say this is important, for Singapore its absolutely critical. Both for training and peace time operations and for war time scenarios where the few runways are damaged.
  • It gives them logical training with the USMC, RN, JSDF. Ships that are likely to come to them rather having to always travel to far away lands for exercises. The aircraft can stay probably mostly in Singapore once operational.
  • F-35B spots seem to be opening up in production faster than F-35A which have been gobbled up by many European acquisitions.
I imagine they are considering closely what they saw at Pitch Black 2022 when reports suggest RAAF F-35A’s performed exceedingly well against RSAF fighters, including the F-15SG…
From all reports they were very impressed with the F-35 and it became a key acquisition for them. It also confirmed for them that the aerobatics and performance of the F-35A are not meaningful above the F-35B in given the F-35 concept of operation. I don't think they ever really underestimated the F-35, I think they were being very careful about selecting between the F-35A and the F-35B.

But as you mentioned it is only the first part of the order. But it would seem like they have decided on the F-35B for their entire fleet. That is what I am reading into this. The discussion seems to be over hence the order confirmation.

I do wonder what this means for Australia's 4th Squadron. I know that's a dirty thought and a dirty question, but ~60 F-35B's would be a great force to work with commonality with. Commonality on doctrine, weapons, enablers and logistics. Particularly if we want to base there (Butterworth) fulltime and not just make fly through appearances.
 

koxinga

Well-Known Member
There is still a long way to go and RSAF seems invested in the platform.

A highly upgraded variant, with capabilities trickling down by NGAD is an option, given how it bought the F-15 decades later. As a sidenote, they have left silent in the landscape, UCAV and loyal wingman type multi-cooperative UCAV system.

Those would be more significant and attractive to Singapore and RSAF than just another manned fighter replacement.



@koxinga

Source required please.
Ministry of Defence, Singapore, Committee of Supply Debate 2023

 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
5. By 2029, American air bases will host 3 Singaporean fighter detachments — namely, in Mountain Home (428th Fighter Squadron — 10 to 12 F-15SGs), in Ebbing (425th Fighter Squadron — up to 36 F-35Bs & F-16s) and in Guam (unknown number). The RSAF detachment to be established in Guam by 2029 will be a mixed squadron of different aircraft types (initially F-15SGs and F-16Vs) and associated personnel, and include the construction of hangars, aprons, and support facilities for the detachment footprint. This means that by 2030, Singapore’s fighter detachments abroad, in America (over 48 advanced fighters in 3 locations) and in France (12 M-346s) have more fighters than the total number of fighter aircraft in Malaysia and Philippines combined.
The 188th Wing at Ebbing has confirmed the move of 425th Fighter Squadron’s 12 F-16s.

Alert 5 has reported that in the near future Polish (F-35A) & Singaporean (12 F-35Bs by 2026) fighters will be based there.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
1. The mid-life upgrade (MLU) program of Singapore’s Lockheed Martin F-16 C/D/D+ includes Rafael Python-5 short-range air-to-air missiles.

2. For more than a decade, many in Singapore believe that the RSAF’s F-16 D+ with DASH helmets, could use Python IV. Plus the RSAF F-16s & like Thailand, our F-5s before they retired have been seen with Python training missiles disguised as AIM-9Ps.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group

This ST article talk more on Singapore AF F-16 upgrade program. Talk about capabilities of data links and networking upgrade. Not only increase networking capabilities with F-15SG, but also with the systems on board A330 MRTT. Seems the networking capabilities will provide direction and automatic hook up with A330 MRTT.

Well at least that's my understanding in the article.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
The Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) scrambled two of its F-16s on 12 February after the service detected an “aircraft of interest". Sadly no more information was given by the RSAF or Singapore government.



Singapore's fleet of Boeing AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopters will soon undergo a life extension programme (LEP).
No any numbers of the to be upgraded helicopters or the value of the potential contracrt are given, but i expect Singapore plans to upgrade the whole AH-64D fleet.

 
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