Indonesian Aero News

Arji

Active Member
I wouldn't spend too much attention to such fanboys and Alman Helvas level of lobbyists. Having two A400Ms in the fleet (and with an option of four more) and Garuda's A330-200s available, it doesn't make sense at all to suddenly switch over to Il-78s.
It doesn't have to make sense, as long as the money goes to the right pocket.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Corruption has always lurking in the corner on every government transaction. This is not only in Indonesia case, some call it lobby, some call it marketing brokerage, some even call cost of capital expenditure on government transaction. Corruption can be mask on order process, but it can also come on more 'naked' intention.

All back to the planning and rule of intention. Marketing lobby matter on Indonesian defense procurement, however politics everywhere also bend the intention logics. Like this MRTT, the logic should go Airbus as already have A400M and the MRO Capabilities for A330. However what about the political intentions to keep the diversification of defense assets ? It is expensive and can run against logistical foot print logics. However in this kind of geopolitics, is having diversified sources are corrupt excuse or political logics ?

This is why for me, all back to money trail logics. Which one can be afforded, and which one can be finances. Corruption always lurking in the shadows corner, even in more orderly systems let alone more shadowly systems like Indonesia. Still has to be differed betwen that and political logics. It can bend to corrupt attraction, however the base thinking is not rule by that.

As long as Indonesia still keep the thinking not to take side, try to be neutral but also need to build viggilance on their own defense. Then the rule of diversification will always there, and logistics foot prints practice will take lower priorities.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
FB_IMG_1784812346456.jpg

This is from FB pages of Yudi S, as seems he has connection from DI Internal. DI have two division, fixed wing and rotary wing. At this moment only Fixed Wing division that still maintain FAL activity, while Rotary Wing more working on parts manufacturing.

This translate to H225 and Bell 412 parts manufacturing. They use to license build them, now only work as parts suplier and final system integration for TNI order.
 

x100 XKR

Member
Does Indo AF have an equivalent of Combat Archer exercise? I noted that there are exercises such as Angkasa Yudha and/or Sikatan Daya - but they seem more like a PR move (I heard announcer in the PA background on streamed videos) vs 'serious' live fire exercise. Their Navy seems to do live fire through sink-ex more often.

Just wondering - if there's ever live fire of R77 and KH31. Would be interested as well if or when the AF plans for Meteor and Hammer. I assume there will Mica IR (or Iris T perhaps), since I can't imagine the Rafale not having a WVR AAM.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Corruption has always lurking in the corner on every government transaction. This is not only in Indonesia case, some call it lobby, some call it marketing brokerage, some even call cost of capital expenditure on government transaction. Corruption can be mask on order process, but it can also come on more 'naked' intention.

All back to the planning and rule of intention. Marketing lobby matter on Indonesian defense procurement, however politics everywhere also bend the intention logics. Like this MRTT, the logic should go Airbus as already have A400M and the MRO Capabilities for A330. However what about the political intentions to keep the diversification of defense assets ? It is expensive and can run against logistical foot print logics. However in this kind of geopolitics, is having diversified sources are corrupt excuse or political logics ?

This is why for me, all back to money trail logics. Which one can be afforded, and which one can be finances. Corruption always lurking in the shadows corner, even in more orderly systems let alone more shadowly systems like Indonesia. Still has to be differed betwen that and political logics. It can bend to corrupt attraction, however the base thinking is not rule by that.

As long as Indonesia still keep the thinking not to take side, try to be neutral but also need to build viggilance on their own defense. Then the rule of diversification will always there, and logistics foot prints practice will take lower priorities.
If they really want to diversify (political neutral and balanced between NATO vs Warschaupact), then it would be better to continue with ordering more BMP-3F, BT-3F, R-27 R-77, Kh-31 and Mi-17V5 and the upgrade of our Sukhois, and not suddenly switch over to Il-78. But that would be too logic.

View attachment 55248

This is from FB pages of Yudi S, as seems he has connection from DI Internal. DI have two division, fixed wing and rotary wing. At this moment only Fixed Wing division that still maintain FAL activity, while Rotary Wing more working on parts manufacturing.

This translate to H225 and Bell 412 parts manufacturing. They use to license build them, now only work as parts suplier and final system integration for TNI order.
One of the many reasons to choose for the EC725 and Bell 412 instead of EH101 and S-70. And this has nothing to do with diversification, but incompetence and corruption.

Does Indo AF have an equivalent of Combat Archer exercise? I noted that there are exercises such as Angkasa Yudha and/or Sikatan Daya - but they seem more like a PR move (I heard announcer in the PA background on streamed videos) vs 'serious' live fire exercise. Their Navy seems to do live fire through sink-ex more often.

Just wondering - if there's ever live fire of R77 and KH31. Would be interested as well if or when the AF plans for Meteor and Hammer. I assume there will Mica IR (or Iris T perhaps), since I can't imagine the Rafale not having a WVR AAM.
Good question, like you i also have never seen serious air-to-air live fire exercises of TNI-AU aircrafts. As always only dumb free fall bombs on static ground targets.
 
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Upgrade of our Sukhois
This is always a topic that bugs me a lot. I love the Flanker family, but as it stands, our variants are just weak. Su-35E is not an option due to financing and Russian not willing to sell them for low numbers. Belarus offers some upgrades but nothing extremely significant. Another thing to consider is integration/compatibility with the other fighters. With this in mind, I personally found the Indian Super Sukhoi upgrade package for their MKIs interesting. Including AESAs, modern avionics, weaponry and more. It should extend the lives of the Flanker to the mid 2050s. Furthermore, being of Indian origin, they also have somewhat easier integration with the Rafale. Need to see how feasible it is since our Su-30s are from MKK family instead of MKI.
But in my opinion, it's something worth to consider if we want to seriously have a Eastern aircraft while not messing up the logistics and properly using the money. Could also be paired with the Indian Netra AWACS projects, as for IAF they also need to pair Western and Eastern ecosystem.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
then it would be better to continue with ordering more BMP-3F, BT-3F, R-27 R-77, Kh-31 and Mi-17V5 and the upgrade of our Sukhois, and not suddenly switch over to Il-78. But that would be too logic.
Well that's what happen now ? Mi-17V and even Mi-8 of VKS standard already coming in batches. While whether more Flankers or J-10BCE the lobby still on going. All back to which one that can provide better financing scheme. This lobby for 34th Sq located on Makasar Hasanuddin Air Base, the plan for either more Su-30Mk2 or Su-35 replacing Su-27SK, J-10BCE going to be base in Haluoleo South East Sulawesi. All indicate strong lobby to make Eastern Indonesia Airspace being service by Russia-China-Belarus assets. Still as I mentioned before, on this I still see the potential J-10BCE then more Flankers. Simply on financing package issue.

the many reasons to choose for the EC725 and Bell 412 instead of EH101 and S-70. And this has nothing to do with diversification, but incompetence and corruption.
Well more H225/EC725 and Bell 412 planning still on going. However what come not S-70, but AW149 and AW189. Italian, Turkiye, and France being finance by Euro and Gulf Financial Institution that getting more traction. Where do you think Republikorp and E-System Sollution Indonesia got their financing back up?

That's the most important thing. For any Marketing Lobby to get contract they have to be backed by strong financing packages. This nation from Soekarno era to Prabowo era always depend on financing line when procure large defense assets. So do Geopolitics matter? Off course. Do Logistics interoperatibility matter? Off Course. However what matter mosts is attractive financing packages.

Will IL-78 come to fruition? Depends on what Airbus financing packages can counter offer for more A400M and A330MRTT. How the Russian Marketing Lobby can give attractive packages? Why it is going to be Moscow that provide? When Dubai, Doha or Shanghai can offer better ;).

It is financial business anyway. If they can provide financing back up to Turkiye defense item, then why not also give back up to Russia ones? Those market already shown they can provide Russian oil export financing, providing to Russian defense export will not be differ much. As long as the price right.
 
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Regarding AW149, it appeared that originally Leonardo offered the AW159 and the TNI AL also wanted it, but somehow the broker (ESS) rerouted to AW149 with ASW package..

The plan for either more Su-30MK2
Where should we even get those from? Buy second hand from Vietnam when they get their Su-35s or Su-57s? I don't even think they still manufacture the MK2 variant, only SME variant, which is with Russian systems and is based on MKI family.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Regarding AW149, it appeared that originally Leonardo offered the AW159 and the TNI AL also wanted it, but somehow the broker (ESS) rerouted to AW149 with ASW package..
There are several version of rumours why AW149 being choose. However I tend to believe the rumours that this is to replace S-70i deal. AW 149 is bit smaller then S-70i, however still consider in similar class. Besides this deal is going to be use mostly for ex Garibaldi, PPA and FMP.

As for AW 159, it is after all in similar class with Bell 412. Seems Mindef still choose to work with Bell and DI to get more 412 for that class.

Where should we even get those from?
The deal so far is only for 5-7 aircraft, what if it is source from stocks that being upgrade by Belarus? Off course this is just one possibilities, as seems this is just part of effort to maintain Flankers fleet. Somehow personally I see/suspect more ob Belarus-UAE connection lobby, then direct sourcing from Rosoboron.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Well that's what happen now ? Mi-17V and even Mi-8 of VKS standard already coming in batches. While whether more Flankers or J-10BCE the lobby still on going. All back to which one that can provide better financing scheme. This lobby for 34th Sq located on Makasar Hasanuddin Air Base, the plan for either more Su-30Mk2 or Su-35 replacing Su-27SK, J-10BCE going to be base in Haluoleo South East Sulawesi. All indicate strong lobby to make Eastern Indonesia Airspace being service by Russia-China-Belarus assets. Still as I mentioned before, on this I still see the potential J-10BCE then more Flankers. Simply on financing package issue.



Well more H225/EC725 and Bell 412 planning still on going. However what come not S-70, but AW149 and AW189. Italian, Turkiye, and France being finance by Euro and Gulf Financial Institution that getting more traction. Where do you think Republikorp and E-System Sollution Indonesia got their financing back up?

That's the most important thing. For any Marketing Lobby to get contract they have to be backed by strong financing packages. This nation from Soekarno era to Prabowo era always depend on financing line when procure large defense assets. So do Geopolitics matter? Off course. Do Logistics interoperatibility matter? Off Course. However what matter mosts is attractive financing packages.

Will IL-78 come to fruition? Depends on what Airbus financing packages can counter offer for more A400M and A330MRTT. How the Russian Marketing Lobby can give attractive packages? Why it is going to be Moscow that provide? When Dubai, Doha or Shanghai can offer better ;).

It is financial business anyway. If they can provide financing back up to Turkiye defense item, then why not also give back up to Russia ones? Those market already shown they can provide Russian oil export financing, providing to Russian defense export will not be differ much. As long as the price right.
Thanks, i didn't even know the S-70i contract for 22 helicopters was cancelled. When did this happen and what was the reason?
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
didn't even know the S-70i contract for 22 helicopters was cancelled. When did this happen and what was the reason?
This is not progressing beyond MoU for S-70M (advance version from S-70i), between LM and DI. Then Leonardo through ESS Indonesia done this LoI for 12 AW149, and before 6 AW 189 with DI. Both AW 149 and AW 189 are in S-70 class.

Nothing definite yet calling S-70M MoU already void. However LM is not progressing much so far with DI. That's why the rumours say Leonardo manage to cut LM on this class of Helicopter in Indonesia.

Still there is also possibilities S-70M can still progressing. AW 149 is for Navy (TNI-AL), AW 189 is for Air Force (TNI-AU), While Police also already have AW 189 and AW 169. Those 22 S-70M should be for Army (TNI-AD), however DI working with Army now for more Bell 412 instead. So, it is simply not progressing more beyond MoU, but in paper the possibilities still there.

Personally if being ask why, I can only say that because TNI-AD being ask to use more Bell 412 and being add with more Mi-17V, or adding more existing type. Maybe PTDI-News-Indonesian Aerospace (IAe) and Bell Mark Four Decades of Strategic Partnership at IISAR 2026 because Bell marketing lobby is more advance then LM ones.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
FB_IMG_1784878892980.jpg
5 TNI-AU T-50i (some call them TA-50) that participate on Pitch Black 26. Previously only 4 being shown arrive, however this photo from Indonesian Forum shown 5 actually participate.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

E-System Solutions (ESS) from his Linked in account talk about Indonesian Subsidiaries E-System Solutions Indonesia procured 14 MD-530F for Manned Unmanned Teaming (MUM-T) training environment.

According to him, E System Solutions Indonesia at least already involve with 3 Aero Training environment for TNI:
  • LCA/LIFT with M346F Blk 20,
  • Dedicated Aggressor Squadron with modernized Mig 29 C/UB,
  • MUM-T Training system, with this MD-530F
The first two already in the process, the aggressor squadron seems going to be put in Hassanudin AB at Makasar. From my understanding this squadron will be rented by TNI-AU from ESS Indonesia, but manned by TNI-AU Instructors. Although I also heard it is possible ESS Indonesia provide some foreign instructors in that squadron too. The squadron is potentially open to other ASEAN AF that need agressor training regime.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
From MinDef FB page,

FB_IMG_1785024254786.jpgFB_IMG_1785024247520.jpgFB_IMG_1785024236635.jpgFB_IMG_1785024223163.jpg

Several Companies that MinDef Inspector General visit during Farnborough Air Show. Witnessing LoI contract with Leonardo, Airbus (seems looking toward A400M), MBDA, Babcock, Drones Tech, and surprisingly (they shown) Elbit System (UK).


Wondering what they are interested with Elbit, and whether politically they want to risk internal political backlash doing business with Israel company.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
Aggressor squadron? Wow .... Which nations tactics/doctrine that they will be emulating?
Considering E-System Sollution is UAE with good business ties with Belarus, I suspect it will have East Euro flavour. However in their pages ESS also put strong upgrade will happen to make those Mig 29 will be in line with current tech. So ESS can hires western pilots to add as part of their training regime package. All depends on size and scope of contract.
 
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