Russia - General Discussion.
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Yes of course. Putin is the person whose agreement Trump needs to pull off annexing Greenland. Not Denmarks, not other NATO allies, not political leadership within the US, not the people of Greenland. Putin.
If Trump can clear the other obstacles, Putin's stance on this will matter very little. If he can't, Putin's stance won't matter at all. So what reason is there to let Putin have Ukraine?
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Saudi Arabia Spends US$2.3 Bln to Acquire 39 Russian Pantsir-S1M Air Defense Systems in Secret Deal - Defence Security Asia
Saudi Arabia has reportedly acquired 39 Russian-made Pantsir-S1M air defense systems in a “quiet” deal worth an estimated $2.3 billion (RM10.1 billion).
defencesecurityasia.com
Honestly I don't know how reliable this kind of NGO OCCRP database. Personally I always have doubt on those politically agenda NGO. However this another indication on how attractiveness on Russian Armament begin to regain their market. Whether Trump going to make deal with Putin or not, Roboron come back to export market is regaining momentum.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
If anything in article is remotely correct then it provides an easy way for GCAP members to reject any Saudi involvement in their 6th Gen project. As for US reaction, WTF knows with Trump. If there is some money offered, I doubt he will get upset.Saudi Arabia Spends US$2.3 Bln to Acquire 39 Russian Pantsir-S1M Air Defense Systems in Secret Deal - Defence Security Asia
Saudi Arabia has reportedly acquired 39 Russian-made Pantsir-S1M air defense systems in a “quiet” deal worth an estimated $2.3 billion (RM10.1 billion).
Honestly I don't know how reliable this kind of NGO OCCRP database. Personally I always have doubt on those politically agenda NGO. However this another indication on how attractiveness on Russian Armament begin to regain their market. Whether Trump going to make deal with Putin or not, Roboron come back to export market is regaining momentum.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Plans of the acquisition were already announced last year.Saudi Arabia Spends US$2.3 Bln to Acquire 39 Russian Pantsir-S1M Air Defense Systems in Secret Deal - Defence Security Asia
Saudi Arabia has reportedly acquired 39 Russian-made Pantsir-S1M air defense systems in a “quiet” deal worth an estimated $2.3 billion (RM10.1 billion).
Honestly I don't know how reliable this kind of NGO OCCRP database. Personally I always have doubt on those politically agenda NGO. However this another indication on how attractiveness on Russian Armament begin to regain their market. Whether Trump going to make deal with Putin or not, Roboron come back to export market is regaining momentum.
Russian Pantsir-S1 secret deal shakes up Saudi Arabia's traditional ai
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www.armyrecognition.com
|" The contract for the assembly plant was expected to be signed in the second half of 2022. However, OCCRP investigators could not confirm whether any of the proposed contracts were finalized, as the leaked documents only cover records through May 2022. Establishing production facilities inside Saudi Arabia was one of Jeddah’s conditions for signing the initial Pantsir contract. "|
source: Saudi Arabia purchased 39 Pantsir-S1M missile systems from Russia for over $2 billion, OCCRP investigation finds
So actually they release this 'news' without any new proof/more up-to-date information. We just have to wait until more reliable sources can tell us more.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The source, as posted by Ananda, contains the remark about the Saudi’s granting the Russians access to the Patriot missile technology. Your other source makes no mention about this so it is new information , assuming it is true.Plans of the acquisition were already announced last year.
Russian Pantsir-S1 secret deal shakes up Saudi Arabia's traditional ai
google_ad_client = "pub-4068738923530102"; /* 468x15 data sheet menu top dark green */ google_ad_slot = "3500417247"; google_ad_width = 468; go
|" The contract for the assembly plant was expected to be signed in the second half of 2022. However, OCCRP investigators could not confirm whether any of the proposed contracts were finalized, as the leaked documents only cover records through May 2022. Establishing production facilities inside Saudi Arabia was one of Jeddah’s conditions for signing the initial Pantsir contract. "|
source: Saudi Arabia purchased 39 Pantsir-S1M missile systems from Russia for over $2 billion, OCCRP investigation finds
So actually they release this 'news' without any new proof/more up-to-date information. We just have to wait until more reliable sources can tell us more.
And probably block F35 for ever.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Again, with Trump, anything is possible. It’s not what is good for the USA, it’s what is good for Trump. All the old GOP enablers have nobody to blame but themselves, they could have voted to impeach, twice!!
Saudi are giving the Russians access to USA patriot missile systems? If that's true a major fallout is coming soon!Saudi Arabia Spends US$2.3 Bln to Acquire 39 Russian Pantsir-S1M Air Defense Systems in Secret Deal - Defence Security Asia
Saudi Arabia has reportedly acquired 39 Russian-made Pantsir-S1M air defense systems in a “quiet” deal worth an estimated $2.3 billion (RM10.1 billion).
Honestly I don't know how reliable this kind of NGO OCCRP database. Personally I always have doubt on those politically agenda NGO. However this another indication on how attractiveness on Russian Armament begin to regain their market. Whether Trump going to make deal with Putin or not, Roboron come back to export market is regaining momentum.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
It is almost unbelievable that this report is true. This is a step more than what Turkey did, just buying the S400.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
It seems likely this access would have occurred on Biden's watch, a fantastic electoral weapon that somebody would have leaked to Trump. Therefore, the report is probably false.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
OCCRP being told received majority of funding from USAID A Giant of Journalism Gets Half its Budget From the U.S. Government so that's why from beginning in my post I have doubt on overall reliability of this NGO. Well I always have doubt with NGO's anyway as they are in the end going to be influenced by their funding anyway.
However this Saudi's Pantsir deal already circulate for some time, and Big NGO's article usually still partially can be realiable. So for me the Pantsir deal seems reliable enough, the other thing including that Patriot Tech very questionable. Saudi usually employ enough US technicians as advisors to maintain their US assets. Heck they are also use French, UK technicians as contractors if they bought from there too. So Russian get access to Patriot without alarming US contractors? Highly unlikely.
More likely some smeer campaign by NGO using Rosoboron people come to Saudi's base. Like I said half truth. Saudi's getting bolder to getting Russian stuff, and seems some guys doesn't like it.
However this Saudi's Pantsir deal already circulate for some time, and Big NGO's article usually still partially can be realiable. So for me the Pantsir deal seems reliable enough, the other thing including that Patriot Tech very questionable. Saudi usually employ enough US technicians as advisors to maintain their US assets. Heck they are also use French, UK technicians as contractors if they bought from there too. So Russian get access to Patriot without alarming US contractors? Highly unlikely.
More likely some smeer campaign by NGO using Rosoboron people come to Saudi's base. Like I said half truth. Saudi's getting bolder to getting Russian stuff, and seems some guys doesn't like it.
There are sources claiming that nearly a quarter of Russia's Pantsir missile systems have been lost in this war 27 of a hundred and sixteen ,there might be many in Russia thinking with Ukraine attacks having caused so much damage ,having those Pantsir,s back in Russia would have prevented many of those strikes inside Russia ,India certainly has concerns about Russia not supplying its contracted weapons delivery due to the war
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www.firstpost.com
Is Ukraine war delaying India's crucial weapon supplies from Russia?
Russia’s deliveries of air defence systems, warships, and submarines are running several years behind schedule
www.firstpost.com
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There's an open question about production of Pantsyr systems. They're fairly complex and news on them have been scarce. There were a couple of reports indicating some were delivered. If they're still able to be produced, then in 3 years Russia has likely produced far more then the 27 they lost in Ukraine. If they're not able to produce them, then obviously we won't see any deliveries to Saudi Arabia. So it will be indicative of the state of affairs if we see any bulk numbers of these systems show up as exports.There are sources claiming that nearly a quarter of Russia's Pantsir missile systems have been lost in this war 27 of a hundred and sixteen ,there might be many in Russia thinking with Ukraine attacks having caused so much damage ,having those Pantsir,s back in Russia would have prevented many of those strikes inside Russia ,India certainly has concerns about Russia not supplying its contracted weapons delivery due to the war
Is Ukraine war delaying India's crucial weapon supplies from Russia?
Russia’s deliveries of air defence systems, warships, and submarines are running several years behind schedule
Back in 2021 when the contract was signed Russia may have been more confident about this missile system and had significantly fewer losses certainly getting cash from he Saudis was this system delivered to Saudi Arabia in 2023 before the more recent uptake in drone attacks from Ukraine? Another point is the Pantsir may be a good system to use against what the Houthis were shooting at them being cheaper than the Patriot system its curious though that the Houthis are receiving aid from Russia so perhaps Russia may be asked not to supply them with weapons to attack the Saudis ,this does sound convoluted I know
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Until now also nothing about allowing Russians the access to Patriot systems on Janes.com or defensenews.com, so probably indeed false information from that NGO.