I can't answer the question but it's one I also posed a few years back as they went very quite very quick on the subject of them, and now have the new LMC's.
Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Padman
- Start date
This sort of online trolling makes me angry, particularly as you know most commentators haven't served a day in their life or have a bridge watch ticket. 
From the SMH :
"Wellington: New Zealand Defence Minister Judith Collins says Kiwi servicewomen are being abused in the street following gender-based attacks levied at the captain of the HMNZS Manawanui.
The Manawanui sank in Samoan waters on Sunday morning after it lost power and hit a reef during surveying work in rough seas.
It was New Zealand’s first naval loss since World War II.
All 75 crew made it to shore safely after an evacuation order was issued by Captain Yvonne Gray.
Following the disaster, Captain Gray has been subjected to vicious online abuse by online trolls, with some suggesting she was promoted above her station due to her gender.
Collins said it was a “deeply concerning misogynistic narrative” from “armchair admirals”, including one from Melbourne.
“I’m appalled to hear that our women in uniform are being abused in the street because of this incident,” she said.
NZ also currently has – for the first time – a female defence minister and chief of army.
“We are all appointed on merit, not gender,” Collins said.
Standing alongside Collins at a press conference on Thursday, Chief of Navy, Rear Admiral Garin Golding, said the gender-based attacks were “disgusting”.
“It’s impacting our people and it needs to stop,” he said.
Manawanui has since been located 30 metres below the surface and inspected for environmentally damaging leaks both by Samoan and NZDF divers.
Samoan officials fear ocean contamination by fuels and oils from the Manawanui, but Collins said fuel storage tanks remained intact.
“There are reports of some small leaks but these are very small amounts and they’re from the pipes that take the fuel around the ship,” she said.
“Current indications are that little to none of this initial fuel has come onto any beaches or onto the reef.
“Maritime New Zealand modelling estimates that only 10 per cent of this is likely to remain longer than 24 hours ... because it is being dispersed out to sea by wind and waves.”
“While this remains an incredibly serious incident, and it will be for a long time to come, it is tracking as well as we could hope for at this point.”
Some in Samoa have called on an apology from New Zealand, which Collins declined to offer.
“We’re obviously deeply traumatised. Frankly, our navy has gone through a very tough time,” she said.
“We are dealing with the immediate issues and anything like that, government to government, would be dealt with by the prime minister, if at all.”
Samoa has suffered various indignities at NZ’s hands, including time under administration from 1914 to 1962.
NZ has been the source of major Samoan measles and flu outbreaks, including one which killed one-fifth of the population, and the deadly 1929 Black Saturday shooting when NZ police killed 11 Samoans.
Mistreatment of Samoans has prompted two formal apologies, delivered by the prime minister Helen Clark in 2002, and Jacinda Ardern in 2021.
It is not yet clear how the Manawanui came to hit the reef and sink. That will be the subject of a formal Court of Inquiry.
Commodore Melissa Ross will lead that probe, with three senior military members joining her, including a secondment from the Australian navy: Commodore Dean Battilana.
An interim report is due mid-November.
Rear Admiral Golding said he would make as much of the report public as possible, only withholding information on privacy and national security grounds.
“The inquiry is carried out in confidence, with statutory protections for witnesses to enable them to give frank and full evidence,” he said."
From the SMH :
"Wellington: New Zealand Defence Minister Judith Collins says Kiwi servicewomen are being abused in the street following gender-based attacks levied at the captain of the HMNZS Manawanui.
The Manawanui sank in Samoan waters on Sunday morning after it lost power and hit a reef during surveying work in rough seas.
It was New Zealand’s first naval loss since World War II.
All 75 crew made it to shore safely after an evacuation order was issued by Captain Yvonne Gray.
Following the disaster, Captain Gray has been subjected to vicious online abuse by online trolls, with some suggesting she was promoted above her station due to her gender.
Collins said it was a “deeply concerning misogynistic narrative” from “armchair admirals”, including one from Melbourne.
“I’m appalled to hear that our women in uniform are being abused in the street because of this incident,” she said.
NZ also currently has – for the first time – a female defence minister and chief of army.
“We are all appointed on merit, not gender,” Collins said.
Standing alongside Collins at a press conference on Thursday, Chief of Navy, Rear Admiral Garin Golding, said the gender-based attacks were “disgusting”.
“It’s impacting our people and it needs to stop,” he said.
Manawanui has since been located 30 metres below the surface and inspected for environmentally damaging leaks both by Samoan and NZDF divers.
Samoan officials fear ocean contamination by fuels and oils from the Manawanui, but Collins said fuel storage tanks remained intact.
“There are reports of some small leaks but these are very small amounts and they’re from the pipes that take the fuel around the ship,” she said.
“Current indications are that little to none of this initial fuel has come onto any beaches or onto the reef.
“Maritime New Zealand modelling estimates that only 10 per cent of this is likely to remain longer than 24 hours ... because it is being dispersed out to sea by wind and waves.”
“While this remains an incredibly serious incident, and it will be for a long time to come, it is tracking as well as we could hope for at this point.”
Some in Samoa have called on an apology from New Zealand, which Collins declined to offer.
“We’re obviously deeply traumatised. Frankly, our navy has gone through a very tough time,” she said.
“We are dealing with the immediate issues and anything like that, government to government, would be dealt with by the prime minister, if at all.”
Samoa has suffered various indignities at NZ’s hands, including time under administration from 1914 to 1962.
NZ has been the source of major Samoan measles and flu outbreaks, including one which killed one-fifth of the population, and the deadly 1929 Black Saturday shooting when NZ police killed 11 Samoans.
Mistreatment of Samoans has prompted two formal apologies, delivered by the prime minister Helen Clark in 2002, and Jacinda Ardern in 2021.
It is not yet clear how the Manawanui came to hit the reef and sink. That will be the subject of a formal Court of Inquiry.
Commodore Melissa Ross will lead that probe, with three senior military members joining her, including a secondment from the Australian navy: Commodore Dean Battilana.
An interim report is due mid-November.
Rear Admiral Golding said he would make as much of the report public as possible, only withholding information on privacy and national security grounds.
“The inquiry is carried out in confidence, with statutory protections for witnesses to enable them to give frank and full evidence,” he said."
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Well said DDG. Hadn't heard about women in uniform being abused in the street until the DefMin's press conference as per the media reporting today (and which you highlight).
(Mind you if anyone was stupid enough to abuse naval "wahine toa" (can mean strong woman, warrior woman etc) to their face I wouldn't be surprised if the abuser came off second best)!
Seriously though it's not normal for Kiwis to disrespect those serving (and it's quite normal to see servicemen and servicewomen still in uniform after a days work in the community e.g. in shops on their way home, due to the relatively safe and respectful nature of our society).
But have seen plenty of uninformed and outrageous commentary on NZ political blogs and similar "issues" forums (which is something I was alluding to a few days ago. But good to see some similar usernames to some posting here correcting the record where practical).
On NZ defence forums (like WoNZ) the commentary has pretty much been civil (which is a credit to the blog owner and their mods).
Even here on DT us Kiwis have behaved with exemplary conduct .... so much so we've not even raised the ire of the Kiwi mods to arise from their well deserved slumber and give us a verbal (written) lashing or three!
(Mind you if anyone was stupid enough to abuse naval "wahine toa" (can mean strong woman, warrior woman etc) to their face I wouldn't be surprised if the abuser came off second best)!
Seriously though it's not normal for Kiwis to disrespect those serving (and it's quite normal to see servicemen and servicewomen still in uniform after a days work in the community e.g. in shops on their way home, due to the relatively safe and respectful nature of our society).
But have seen plenty of uninformed and outrageous commentary on NZ political blogs and similar "issues" forums (which is something I was alluding to a few days ago. But good to see some similar usernames to some posting here correcting the record where practical).
On NZ defence forums (like WoNZ) the commentary has pretty much been civil (which is a credit to the blog owner and their mods).
Even here on DT us Kiwis have behaved with exemplary conduct .... so much so we've not even raised the ire of the Kiwi mods to arise from their well deserved slumber and give us a verbal (written) lashing or three!
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
An account of the conditions at the time (written by one of NZ's better investigative journalists).
cranmer.substack.com
A first hand account from a former RN commanding officer on being in a real-life situation in which his ship (and lives) could have been lost due to flooding.
HMNZS MANAWANUI
Details are already starting to emerge of the frantic rescue efforts that saved the crew of the stricken vessel on Saturday evening and which continued until the early hours of Sunday.
cranmer.substack.com
A first hand account from a former RN commanding officer on being in a real-life situation in which his ship (and lives) could have been lost due to flooding.
There was once a very talented young navigator,and world renowned Explorer who ran his ship aground on the Great Barrier Reef.
Captain James Cook.
One of my old skippers on game fishing boats out of Cairns wanted rest during a transit to Lizard Island. He could tell I was a bit nervous, itvwas dead calm, and glassed out. It made seeing the reef impossible until you were right up on it.
He said, there are 2 types of skippers up here, those that have hit the reef, and those that are gunna! Trust your instruments.
Now, if we didn't have gps, sounders and radar....due to a loss of power....I probably would have been a hell of a lot more nervous.
Captain James Cook.
One of my old skippers on game fishing boats out of Cairns wanted rest during a transit to Lizard Island. He could tell I was a bit nervous, itvwas dead calm, and glassed out. It made seeing the reef impossible until you were right up on it.
He said, there are 2 types of skippers up here, those that have hit the reef, and those that are gunna! Trust your instruments.
Now, if we didn't have gps, sounders and radar....due to a loss of power....I probably would have been a hell of a lot more nervous.
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
I have only seen it on the internet, youtube, twitter and fakebook...Well said DDG. Hadn't heard about women in uniform being abused in the street until the DefMin's press conference as per the media reporting today (and which you highlight).
(Mind you if anyone was stupid enough to abuse naval "wahine toa" (can mean strong woman, warrior woman etc) to their face I wouldn't be surprised if the abuser came off second best)!
Seriously though it's not normal for Kiwis to disrespect those serving (and it's quite normal to see servicemen and servicewomen still in uniform after a days work in the community e.g. in shops on their way home, due to the relatively safe and respectful nature of our society).
But have seen plenty of uninformed and outrageous commentary on NZ political blogs and similar "issues" forums (which is something I was alluding to a few days ago. But good to see some similar usernames to some posting here correcting the record where practical).
On NZ defence forums (like WoNZ) the commentary has pretty much been civil (which is a credit to the blog owner and their mods).
Even here on DT us Kiwis have behaved with exemplary conduct .... so much so we've not even raised the ire of the Kiwi mods to arise from their well deserved slumber and give us a verbal (written) lashing or three!
I wrote a couple of notes on this article on my webiste...
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Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Australian Officer joins HMNZS Manawanui Court of Inquiry - Australian Defence Magazine
I see Captain Dean Battilana from the RAN has been seconded to the RNZN as part of the 4 member COI into the loss of HMNZS Manawanui. Makes sense to bring an outsider in as he shouldn't have any baggage political or career wise.
I see Captain Dean Battilana from the RAN has been seconded to the RNZN as part of the 4 member COI into the loss of HMNZS Manawanui. Makes sense to bring an outsider in as he shouldn't have any baggage political or career wise.
HMNZS Otago (OPV) to be brought out of mothballs
Watching the interview with DefMin Judith Collins this morning (link), it seems that HMNZS Otago will be brought out of mothballs as the replacement for Manawanui. Pretty much what I expected from this government - the cheapest, stupidest option every time. Much like the Dunedin Hospital fiasco, for gawd's sake, just do the job properly you muppets!
Otago as far as I know, has no onboard survey equipment (eg. echo sounders), no dynamic positioning ability (if memory serves, she has to stop a shaft to go less than 8 kts). Diving capability may be whatever can be carried in a container on the quarterdeck. Surveying will be by Remus ROV or RHIB I suspect. Not good at all.
At least we will have an OPV back (to patrol the EEZ).
Watching the interview with DefMin Judith Collins this morning (link), it seems that HMNZS Otago will be brought out of mothballs as the replacement for Manawanui. Pretty much what I expected from this government - the cheapest, stupidest option every time. Much like the Dunedin Hospital fiasco, for gawd's sake, just do the job properly you muppets!
Otago as far as I know, has no onboard survey equipment (eg. echo sounders), no dynamic positioning ability (if memory serves, she has to stop a shaft to go less than 8 kts). Diving capability may be whatever can be carried in a container on the quarterdeck. Surveying will be by Remus ROV or RHIB I suspect. Not good at all.
At least we will have an OPV back (to patrol the EEZ).
Gee, the ship sunk 7 days ago, kind of glad they havent rushed to replace it as without a decent review of what happened the replacement would be rushed and probably be something similar and civilian again and we would likely be stuck with the decision for the next 20 years (unless the replacement sunk too). Im hoping they take enough time (but not too much) to investigate and build the findings into what comes next for the Navy. Im liking what Im ready in this article (avoiding 2nd hand and civilian builds), but holding my breath until we see something tangible : 'We could've had 75 body bags': Collins on HMNZS Manawanui sinking
Catalina
Member
Defence Minister Collins discusses New Zealand's upcoming involvement in the latest IP4 involvement with NATO and the sinking and court of inquiry into the loss of HMNZS Manawanui (link). The interim CoI report is scheduled for release in mid-November.
Good to hear from the Minister of HMNZS Otago return to active service from its current care and custody status with the redeployment of Manawanui's crew.
Good to hear from the Minister of HMNZS Otago return to active service from its current care and custody status with the redeployment of Manawanui's crew.
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kiwi in exile
Active Member
Personally given the situation I'm pleased with this and see it as a positive. Given the 'deteriorating regional geopolitical situation' drug smuggling, fisheries crimes, etc I would rather have an OPV patrolling the pacific than the Manawanui doing survey work. Someone better informed than me can evaluate whether our hydrographic MCM outputs can be achieved with Remus UUVs etc from an OPV/without the Manawanuis onboard capabilities. I was under the impression that globally there was a move towards using ROVs more and more for this kind of work.
I do agree that this govt is establishing a track record of stupid, cheap decisions (unless you a tobacco company or some other kind of private developer). Defmin Collins sound reasonable about our capabilitry gap in this and other interviews (Thanks Jack Tame), but we will have to see if Nat can walk the walk as well as talk the talk when the DCP comes out. Collins seems to be leaning toward new builds and mils spec builds henceforth... (see tame interview). But also see Cook Straight 2nd hand toyota corollas etc.
If you look at the total history of the RNZN you will find that all the ships that ever carried out the roles of HMNZS Manawanui, they have all been second hand and most have been adapted to fit the role. Some have also been civilian adaptions in fact from memory the were all built to non military specs.They performed there roles satisfactory.
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All elements of HMNZS Matataua are by design short notice mobile and rapid deployable by air, land and sea so in theory do not actually require a specific ship ie their roles, kit and pers can, and do, work out of containers and space cases and their inshore craft are able to be transported by alternate means and other ships. Obviously having a dedicated ship like Manawanui has its distinct benefits of being more purpose built and suited to task but in the interim using an otherwise parked OPV as the new mothership is the next best thing all things considered.
Business as usual in at least the short to medium term until some no doubt overly drawn out long term govt decision can be discussed, debated, dissected and delayed.
Business as usual in at least the short to medium term until some no doubt overly drawn out long term govt decision can be discussed, debated, dissected and delayed.
Shanesworld
Well-Known Member
......defunded, dismissed. Lastly - distanced when the consequences come.
CJohn
Active Member
Following the delivery of the three littoral manoevure craft last year, the RNZN have awarded a contract to Sentinal Boats of Hobart to supply 17 RHIB's with an options for three extras to replace Navy's exiting sea boats.
sentinelboats.au
Royal New Zealand Navy Contract Signed - Sentinel Boats
Sentinel Boats is honoured to announce that it has been awarded the contract to replace the RNZN’s fleet of Naval Sea Boats. We will deliver 17 RHIBs, with an option for an additional three...
sentinelboats.au
2 years late and 9 boats short but better than nothing or the usual "re-furb/fresh/paint" I guess...Following the delivery of the three littoral manoevure craft last year, the RNZN have awarded a contract to Sentinal Boats of Hobart to supply 17 RHIB's with an options for three extras to replace Navy's exiting sea boats.
Royal New Zealand Navy Contract Signed - Sentinel Boats
Sentinel Boats is honoured to announce that it has been awarded the contract to replace the RNZN’s fleet of Naval Sea Boats. We will deliver 17 RHIBs, with an option for an additional three...
SeaplanePaul
New Member
Australia drops Korean option for its order of 11 Tier Two light frigates. Will decide next year between Japan's upgraded Mogami 30FFM and Germany's MEKO A-200.
Will NZ follow Australia's lead and purchase the same frigates as our Australian ally as we previously did with our ANZAC class frigates?
Will NZ follow Australia's lead and purchase the same frigates as our Australian ally as we previously did with our ANZAC class frigates?
I would think the A140 would be a better option, given the flexibility in design and NZ HADR responses in the South Pacific. The question is whether the A140 will be an obsolete design by 2035
I still feel NZ gets quite attached to this whole do what Australia does scenario, buy what they buy, feild what they feild blah blah blah which is fine for certain aspects of defence but then alittle inappropriate, somewhat pointless and even overkill for others especially in terms of role, operation and overall cost. Point being sometimes what they get is not what we need. The main benefit of the ANZACs was in the form of industrial and financial perks for both countries being built locally vs overseas and other than that we saw how much both countries diverged in their fitouts, upgrades and capability from literally day dot to the point where today they are actually very different ships with the only thing interoperable being the heads!
In saying that I have been following the mogamis and feel they are quite a capable platform in terms of build quality, features, manpower, future proofing, cost and capability, all things NZ need (NEED) to seriously consider in an ANZAC replacement. Hopefully a chance to "upgrade" to at least a 3 frigate navy by then as well all of those things considered, and going well...
A combined build in which we tag on a few at the end of the project could be beneficial to both countries don't get me wrong but it needs to work for both and still be in NZs best interests as well as, like most capabilities, this is Australias tier 2 frigate whereas it will be our tier 1 navy which for us and, more importantly what we do, generally/usually/potentially still works fine but end of the day it still needs to be functional, operational and useful for NZ first, bonus if that just so happens to be what Australia and other allies have as well, but not a given.