Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

recce.k1

Well-Known Member
oh no... some one wasn't watching where they were going...
And it turns out the incident happened at night ...

Sad to hear of the 5th October 2024 grounding of HMNZS Manawanui on a reef in Samoa.
Glad everyone abandoned ship safely and all 78 on board are accounted for, albeit still floating in liferafts when the below account was received.
A hard time ahead for Commander Yvonne Gray.

When was the last time our Navy had to abandon a ship...?
This morning's radio news reports seemed rather benign in their reporting ("ran aground" .. picturing a vessel sitting on a reef). But she is actually listing rather badly.


Navy now have a capability gap with a specialist fit for purpose asset no longer available for tasking.

Wonder if the OPV's will be hastily brought back in service as an interim solution? If so thank goodness NZDF maintained them in "custody and care" by contractor Babcock.
 

recce.k1

Well-Known Member
Kind of following on from the discussions on the RAN thread regarding damage control .... curious to know how "resilient" these repurposed offshore support vessels are structurally in their design (eg materially, to contain water ingress, system redundancy and so on).

Asking as similar vessels are in service in other allied nations (eg HMS Proteus and ADV Ocean Protector come to mind) and presumably were originally designed for more "benign" use to eg support the oil and gas industry moving between port and offshore infrastructure etc.

Whilst I think they are fantastic vessels for their new undersea warfare support roles (in order to also quickly trial and support new autonomous/unmanned technologies) ... could there be an opportunity to design a "more" milspec'ed vessel for common allied undersea warfare support roles?

Whilst there has been some developments from some of the naval shipbuilders (they seem to be launch platforms for autonomous/unmanned platforms in a traditional patrol vessel type design) I'm thinking of something that can also support the survey/diving/rov/mcm role with a hefty crane and plenty of deck space to bring aboard containerised special equipment and set them up, sometimes hosting allied personnel and their unique systems etc.
 
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InterestedParty

Active Member
I am curious what role the P8 plays in such an event.
Is it surveying the scene, collecting weather data or because it is a large fast aircraft and available, it can be used as a transport for people and material to assist and remove the injured back to NZ. It would be getting there before a C130 could
 

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Kind of following on from the discussions on the RAN thread regarding damage control .... curious to know how "resilient" these repurposed offshore support vessels are structurally in their design (eg materially, to contain water ingress, system redundancy and so on).

Asking as similar vessels are in service in other allied nations (eg HMS Proteus and ADV Ocean Protector come to mind) and presumably were originally designed for more "benign" use to eg support the oil and gas industry moving between port and offshore infrastructure etc.

Whilst I think they are fantastic vessels for their new undersea warfare support roles (in order to also quickly trial and support new autonomous/unmanned technologies) ... could there be an opportunity to design a "more" milspec'ed vessel for common allied undersea warfare support roles?

Whilst there has been some developments from some of the naval shipbuilders (they seem to be launch platforms for autonomous/unmanned platforms in a traditional patrol vessel type design) I'm thinking of something that can also support the survey/diving/rov/mcm role with a hefty crane and plenty of deck space to bring aboard containerised special equipment and set them up, sometimes hosting allied personnel and their unique systems etc.
These are generally pretty tough vessels noting the undertake operations in fairly severe conditions including working close to facilities whhile maintaining position using dynamic positioning . The ADV vessels are a lower level Ice Class but I am not sure if Manawanui is built that way.

It would be interesting to know what happened first, the fire or the grounding. Either way it would appear the opened up a lot of the ships bottom. I feel for the crew as they are going have a pretty stressful time while this is investigated. Given the vessel is ex-commercial hopefully the voayge data recorder was still fitted and operating. If so that should provide and indication of what when on.

For those not familiar with a VDR

https://wwwcdn.imo.org/localresources/en/KnowledgeCentre/IndexofIMOResolutions/MSCResolutions/MSC.333(90).pdf
 
From the limited facts reported so far, the ship would appear to have been operating close inshore at night and in rough conditions.
I would be very interested to know why that was the case
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
These are generally pretty tough vessels noting the undertake operations in fairly severe conditions including working close to facilities whhile maintaining position using dynamic positioning . The ADV vessels are a lower level Ice Class but I am not sure if Manawanui is built that way.

It would be interesting to know what happened first, the fire or the grounding. Either way it would appear the opened up a lot of the ships bottom. I feel for the crew as they are going have a pretty stressful time while this is investigated. Given the vessel is ex-commercial hopefully the voayge data recorder was still fitted and operating. If so that should provide and indication of what when on.

For those not familiar with a VDR

https://wwwcdn.imo.org/localresources/en/KnowledgeCentre/IndexofIMOResolutions/MSCResolutions/MSC.333(90).pdf
A sad day for the New Zealand Navy
A day that may that may also be the day that NZ starts to have a good look at itself and considers what it wants and needs in its defence force and for this thread, what expectations it has for its maritime service.

Certainly there will be an investigation into the loss of Manawanui and that will be challenging for all involved.

I notice Wiki already has updated its NZ Navy site acknowledging the loss of Manawanui.
A glance of the NZ fleet today it shows that it now comprises
Two ANZAC's plus a small patrol boat supported by one supply ship and one multi role vessel.
Five active ships.

Two OPV's and another patrol boat are listed as laid up.
I'm sure some of the later will be back to service in due course.

Over the years there has been much discussion about what New Zealand's fleet should look like.
Many good ideas and concepts postulated, but in all reality unless there is a major boost in funding and time to build up personnel numbers the sad reality is that NZ has a very very small fleet.

Reality check........a very small fleet

NZ needs a vessel / vessels with the capability's of Manawanui.
It needs to do constabulary duties and HADR.
It needs to do the amphibious stuff in quantity and distance from shore.
It needs the range and numbers of vessels to fulfil the above duties 24 / 7 / 365.
This is a given for a modern industrialised nation.

It also needs fighting ships.
Now hears the challenge.
I realistically don't think NZ has the conviction to do justice to this aspiration.

Unless at least three throw into harms way vessels are acquired it will be a compromised bastard of a solution that satisfies nothing.

With no disrespect, a bit like its fleet today.

So lets make the loss of Manawanui a positive.
Lets make it a reflection point.
A transition point for NZ's future.

Maybe the future is one without major fighting ships but has balance in all other domains.

or

Maybe it raises the bar and commits to a balanced robust maritime fighting force going forward.

If so that force will need to at least double in size
A very big challenge.

What will NZ do?


Time will tell.


Cheers S
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
I am curious what role the P8 plays in such an event.
Is it surveying the scene, collecting weather data or because it is a large fast aircraft and available, it can be used as a transport for people and material to assist and remove the injured back to NZ. It would be getting there before a C130 could
The P8 is able to spot boats and/or people in the water from above ...it was a good first choice given it took most of the night to get personnel ashore..the P8 would've been able to spot them & relay their location to surface craft & monitor movements of rescue craft so a good first response. The dive team is AIUI to head up on a C-130 along with spill containment equipment plus other resources.
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
From the limited facts reported so far, the ship would appear to have been operating close inshore at night and in rough conditions.
I would be very interested to know why that was the case
Ran aground at 6.46pm which is a little over 20 mins after sundown...twilight is limited in the topics but they were leaving the work area at the time so not working in the dark. Who knows ...could've been a mechanical issue (eg: azimuth thruster) but all speculation for now.
 

kiwi in exile

Active Member
A sad day for the New Zealand Navy
So lets make the loss of Manawanui a positive.
Lets make it a reflection point.
A transition point for NZ's future.

Maybe the future is one without major fighting ships but has balance in all other domains.

or

Maybe it raises the bar and commits to a balanced robust maritime fighting force going forward.
My thought on the Manawanui as a ship were mixed. She had some great niche capabilities with onboard deep dive support and salvage. Wasn't sure if the salvage capability would have seen much use. Isn't most hydrography and MCM now accomplised remotely via UUVs USVs. I would argue another OPV type platform with modular mission space for hydrogaphy and MCM would have had more utility for a navy our size (smaller T31). That seems to be the thinking behind HMNZS Matataua. Liked the diving bell and moon pool though.

Glad our personel are generally allright (2-3 injured as per MSM). Don't see this govt stumping up "$100M" for a replacement anytime soon. The govt is good at sounding tough on defence on record (especially if there are other 5eyes pols around) but as with recent hospital projects has shown that theres not really any more money to cover neceesities. Tunnels under wellington and covered sports stadiums thiough...
Hopefully crew can be rapidly re-rolled into OPV
 
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