General Naval News

[koxinga]

The saga continues.

China agrees to supply ship instead of sub to navy

The Chinese government has agreed in principle to supply either two patrol vessels or a frigate to the Thai navy instead of a submarine, according to a navy source.

www.bangkokpost.com

 

[Redlands18]

HD Hyundai Heavy to build 4 warships for Peruvian Navy

HD Hyundai Heavy secured a $463 million order to build four vessels for the Peruvian Navy together with SIMA Peru.

www.navaltoday.com

Hyundai has been awarded a contract to build four new ships for the Peruvian Navy, consisting of one 3400t Frigate, one 2200t OPV and two 1500t Landing Ships. Peru currently has a modernisation plan for five Frigates four OPVs and 2 Landing Ships. Hyundai is currently bidding for the project to supply five Frigates, you would think being awarded this contract would have to put Hyundai in the box seat for the Frigate project.
The Peruvian Navy currently operates 8 Italian built Frigates based on the Lupo design, so the Daegu/Chungnam would be a like for like replacement.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

On 11 April Rauma Marine Constructions (RMC) laid the keel for the first Squadron 2020 Pohjanmaa-class multirole corvette on order for the Finnish Navy during a ceremony at its shipyard in Rauma. RMC is building four Pohjanmaa-class multirole corvettes in total for the Finnish Navy under a EUR647,6 million (USD687,8 million) design and construction contract awarded in 2019.

Together with the existing four Hamina-class missile boats, the four new surface combatants will form the backbone of the Finnish Navy from the mid-2020s onwards. They will replace seven older vessels that have been or are due to be decommissioned; the minelayer Pohjanmaa, two Hämeenmaa-class minelayers and four Rauma-class missile boats.

Because of this these corvettes will be multirole, will have sea mines on board and will have the size and displacement of a frigate (117 meters long and 4300 t).

Rauma Shipyard lays keel for first Finnish Navy Squadron 2020 corvette

Rauma Marine Constructions (RMC) laid the keel for the first Squadron 2020 Pohjanmaa-class multirole corvette on order for the Finnish Navy during a ceremony at its...

www.janes.com

Yesterday on 16 April, Piriou Group has delivered the third and last of the 62 meter long OPV 58 S offshore patrol vessel (OPV) for the Senegalese Armed Forces.

France's Piriou Delivers 3rd and Final OPV to Senegalese Navy - Naval News

Piriou Group has delivered the third and last of the OPV 58 S offshore patrol vessel (OPV) for the Senegalese Armed Forces.

www.navalnews.com

On the same day HD Hyundai Heavy Industries signed a contract for the local construction of four naval vessels with Servicios Industriales de la Marina (SIMA), Peru's state-run shipyard. The contract is worth USD 463 Million and includes one 3400-ton Frigate, one 2200-ton Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV) and two 1400-ton Landing Craft Units (LCUs).

In post #422 we already read that HHI was the preferred bidder, but now the contract is really signed.

HD HHI Signs Contract for Local Construction of Four Naval Vessels for the Peruvian Navy - Naval News

On April 16th, 2024, HD HHI signed a contract for the local construction of four naval vessels for the Peruvian Navy.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Ananda]

Italia pide a Ecuador 120 millones de euros por las fragatas Maestrale

La sumas solicitadas se dan en el marco del proceso que adelantan las dos naciones para la posible venta de las embarcaciones F 571 Grecale y F 572 Libeccio en servicio en la Marina Italiana ...

www.infodefensa.com

According to this, Italia already agree to sell two of their last Maestrale Frigate to Ecuador. This Two Frigate still in Italian Navy active fleet at this moment. This is also the same two Maestrale Frigate that Italy offer to Indonesia as Interim Frigate Fincantieri Signed A Contract To Provide 8 Frigates To Indonesia - Naval News . However then seems Indonesia pull back from accepting the Maestrale, and before that this two Maestrale also being info offered to Philippines.

Now seems Ecuador will be the takers, hopefully can get through. This considering Ecuador also have quite challenging economic situations.

 

[SolarisKenzo]

45 years old ships...

 

[swerve]

Commissioned 1983, modenized 2007-10. Yes, bloody old.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Im really happy that the plan to sell the two Maestrale class to Indonesia is canceled, like the plan to buy the F122 Bremenclass Lübeck F214 from Germany.

 

[SolarisKenzo]

Maestrale ships are completely done, they were over-used for many years and recently they were deployed even more to fulfill all these roles the Navy didn't want FREMMs to do.
The six we decommissioned in the last year's were in terrible conditions and used as workhorses for decades.

I really don't understand why a country would buy them.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

HD Hyundai Heavy Industries is trying to win the contract for the Polish Navy’s next-generation submarine project, ‘ORKA’, worth 3,35 trillion won (approximately USD 2,41 billion). HD Hyundai Heavy Industries is offering two submarine platforms simultaneously: a 3000-ton submarine (KSS-III PL) and a 2000-ton submarine (HDS-2300).

HD HHI Ramps Up its Campaign to Secure Polish ORKA Project - Naval News

HD Hyundai Heavy Industries is stepping up efforts to win the contract for the Polish Navy’s next-generation submarine project, ‘ORKA’...

www.navalnews.com

This design from VNSD looks very interesting

The Portuguese Navy is progressing an ambitious effort to replace its Tejo- , Argos- , and Centauro-class coastal patrol vessels (CPVs) with a fleet of eight new ‘disruptive' multi-purpose platforms under the service's Navio de Patrulha Costeiro (NPC) project.

Portugal seeks new coastal patrol vessels

The Portuguese Navy is progressing an ambitious effort to replace its Tejo- , Argos- , and Centauro-class coastal patrol vessels (CPVs) with a fleet of eight new...

www.janes.com

 

[Redlands18]

RIMPAC 2024 Kicks Off In Honolulu, Hawaii - Naval News
RIMPAC 2024 has kicked off with 29 nations and 25,000 personal participating.
Amongst the highlights, include a humanitarian disaster relief exercise, that will include a civil Healthcare Emergency Management exercise.
Also, a SINKEX of the ex-USS Tarawa (LHA-01) is planned.

 

[John Fedup]

This article questions the future of aircraft carriers. Not convinced carriers are obsolete yet. The RCN’s last carrier received a multimillion dollar refit only to be scrapped months later by Trudeau senior, hardly a reason to assume it was brilliant decision based on carrier obsolescence. The USN commitment to carriers is understandable, they perform well. Are they vulnerable to subs, probably wrt China and Russia. While CVNs can likely be disabled, sinking them is debatable. Clearly China seems to agree as their third carrier begins sea trials. Both nations see value in these ships as power projection platforms in regional conflicts as opposed to a peer to peer conflict.

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2024/08/28/why_the_future_belongs_to_the_submarine_1054541.html

In the long term, carriers and other major surface combatant ships might not be survivable unless dramatically effective (and cheap) counter measures can be developed for protection from missile swarms. SSNs and SSGNs might rule the seas in 20-30 years.

 

[ngatimozart]

This article questions the future of aircraft carriers. Not convinced carriers are obsolete yet. The RCN’s last carrier received a multimillion dollar refit only to be scrapped months later by Trudeau senior, hardly a reason to assume it was brilliant decision based on carrier obsolescence. The USN commitment to carriers is understandable, they perform well. Are they vulnerable to subs, probably wrt China and Russia. While CVNs can likely be disabled, sinking them is debatable. Clearly China seems to agree as their third carrier begins sea trials. Both nations see value in these ships as power projection platforms in regional conflicts as opposed to a peer to peer conflict.

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2024/08/28/why_the_future_belongs_to_the_submarine_1054541.html

In the long term, carriers and other major surface combatant ships might not be survivable unless dramatically effective (and cheap) counter measures can be developed for protection from missile swarms. SSNs and SSGNs might rule the seas in 20-30 years.

For an enemy to sink a carrier, they have to have very good real time targeting data and that's a lot easier said than done. Yes missiles and drones are a real threat but this is still the old story of bigger guns and thicker armour. It's a continuous cycle. For every improvement in offensive capability, there's always a related improvement in defensive capability. The reverse is equally true.

Battleships weren't made obsolete just because of aerial attack improvements, but more so because aircraft out ranged their offensive capability. The role of the battleship change during WW2 from being the main offensive weapon to being a fire support system. The Battleships sunk by aircraft action in WW2 were because those battleships were not properly escorted by both surface and airborne assets. Prince of Wales and repulse, Yammato and its sister ship, Tirpitz, and so on. Bismarck was damaged by an obsolete torpedo bomber that slowed it down and jammed its rudder.

The Americans learned the lesson quickly about the vulnerability of their ships to aerial attack. One of their response was the plethora of intially Oerlikon 20mm autocannon, supplemented and later superseded by Bofors 40mm autocannon. Advances in radar gave longer air raid warning time. IIRC they didn't lose a battleship after Pearl Harbour.

In the modern context I believe that we have a lot to learn from the lessons of WW2. There were new weapons and sensors introduced then with counters subsequently fielded.

 

[John Fedup]

Look at what happened to Russian naval assets in the Black Sea and the expense of Red Sea defence of cargo ships, relatively limited attacks. Can any surface navy claim to be safe from a serious missile attack from China? China has formidable missiles and lots of them. In a sea based exchange, missile inventory is an issue so the threat may be less. However long range launches from ashore out to sea won't have an inventory issue. The ship defences will have the inventory limitation. At what distance from enemy shores do naval ships become irrelevant? Even choke point blockades 1,500 miles away could be problematic for surface combatants (submarine mission more likely). Do Chinese missiles have the necessary long range accuracy, a valid question. Are new missile defence systems coming soon that are economic enough with the necessary endurance to defend ships against missile swarm attacks, another valid question. Time will tell.

 

[John Fedup]

A new Italian mini-sub design has been introduced. It is for Qatar.

First Clear Images of the Italian Submarines being built for Qatar - Naval News

 

[FormerDirtDart]

A new Italian mini-sub design has been introduced. It is for Qatar.

First Clear Images of the Italian Submarines being built for Qatar - Naval News

It does appear to be quite the cute wee fella, relative to your more typical subs

" ... The submarine has an overall length of 23 meters (75 feet) and a width of 5 meters (16 feet). ... " "... The crew of 6 can be accompanied by a further 6 passengers, typically special forces combat swimmers. ... "

 

[John Fedup]

It does appear to be quite the cute wee fella, relative to your more typical subs

Small and manned intrigued me.

 

[76mmGuns]

What does Qatar need a "cute wee fella" need this for? Toy for the rich princes?

 

[swerve]

Large & potentially hostile neighbour a short distance away, across a fairly shallow sea with clear water. Big subs are hard to hide. Surface ships are vulnerable.

 

[Ananda]

Latest Details on Poland's Miecznik Frigate Program - Naval News

During the MSPO fair in Poland, PGZ-MIECZNIK revealed the latest information on the Miecznik-class frigate program for the Polish Navy.

www.navalnews.com

Latest configuration rendering of Polish Arrowhead 140 derivative. Especially the changing of aft radar aray placement toward separate tower above hangar. Also the rendering shown changes of SSM from SAAB to Kongsberg.

This shown all Arrowhead/Iver Huitfeldt base design, have manage to be build with different configurations set up and design modification to each customers need. Danish Iver, UK Type 31, Indonesian FMP and now Polish Miecznik will each have different weapons set, SEWACO systems set, and layout. Shown abilities of it's modular design adoption.

 

[76mmGuns]

Latest Details on Poland's Miecznik Frigate Program - Naval News

During the MSPO fair in Poland, PGZ-MIECZNIK revealed the latest information on the Miecznik-class frigate program for the Polish Navy.

www.navalnews.com

Latest configuration rendering of Polish Arrowhead 140 derivative. Especially the changing of aft radar aray placement toward separate tower above hangar. Also the rendering shown changes of SSM from SAAB to Kongsberg.

This shown all Arrowhead/Iver Huitfeldt base design, have manage to be build with different configurations set up and design modification to each customers need. Danish Iver, UK Type 31, Indonesian FMP and now Polish Miecznik will each have different weapons set, SEWACO systems set, and layout. Shown abilities of it's modular design adoption.

They also replaced the SAAB ASM with NSM from Norway. There must be some secret data about the NSM I don't know about because everyone is jumping on the NSM bandwagon.