Having been lucky enough to walk below deck on Nelsons flagship HMS Victory, I hope Spoz is not to tall !
Cheers S
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
- Thread starter OPSSG
- Start date
Cheers S
Don't ya mean with Themistocles at Salamis?
Of cause, I understand you come from the days where typical rations involved Moa legs.
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Now we won’t have that sort of talk here!
L
Leave the boys with the men?
183 cms; and I have served in Victory …… although not, I hasten to add, in 1805. (Victory was, and maybe still is, the nominal posting for those working in places like the Dockyard in Portsmouth). We lived in HMS Nelson, though.
Glad to see people enjoying the forum!
“Rum, buggery and the lash” (Churchill) was the RN, the RAN never had either rum or the lash. There may have been a bit of the other, but it was frowned on; although I will always remember my surprise, and that of the Ship’s Company, when (in the 90s) an officer turned up at a ship’s ball with a male partner. Might be more common now I suspect.
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Never understood this level of surprise, like gay people were only invented in the 80s ? Just because cultural norms have changed over the years and certain types of behaviour were considered taboo didn't mean they stopped existing. There were at least 2 gay guys on my first draft on Perth and no-one cared as it didn't affect their job performance. The RAN was also the first major employer in Australia to recognise same sex defacto relationships in the 90s. Same issue with women at sea, despite how poorly the RAN handled the implementation (the disastrous DE deployment and subsequent 60 Minutes expose) the workforce adapted and after the old guard paid off it's now considered completely normal. The only constant in life is change, it's how you evolve and adapt to it that matters. It's natural to be resistant, but nothing some critical thinking and analysis can't overcome.
I thought it was quoted as “rum bum and the lash” but hey.
Homosexuality was considered a security risk in the services for for most of the 20th century or at least up until the sexual revolutions of the 70s, which is why it was a reason for instant revocation of security clearances and dismissal. (Because they could be threatened for exposure and blackmailed)
Despite that threat I can recall a number of individuals, in one case a 4 striper in command of a DDG, who were well known for their sexual preferences.
BAE Systems to provide critical Mk 45 upgrade to Australian Navy frigates.
www.baesystems.com
Sounds like electronics only, not new gun shields and barrel etc?
8 Jan 2024
BAE Systems was awarded a contract by the Commonwealth of Australia to upgrade existing Mk 45 Mod 2 naval gun systems on Anzac class frigates with a Common Control System (CCS).
The upgrade modifies existing Mk 45 systems to eliminate obsolescence issues and extend the life of the gun system.
The CCS upgrade replaces electronics on earlier Mk 45 Mod 1 and Mod 2 gun systems to be compatible with the Mk 45 Mod 4, the latest configuration used by the U.S. Navy. In addition to delivering commonality and interoperability with the U.S. Navy’s gun systems, the upgrade will equip the Mk 45s with the capability to integrate future extended-range precision guided munitions, such as the hypervelocity projectile.
“The Common Control System upgrade is the most cost-effective way to extend the life of Mk 45 gun systems, enabling them to provide critical ship naval fires and creating a configuration that allows for the integration of future precision guided munitions” said Brent Butcher, vice president of weapon systems at BAE Systems. “We are committed to modernizing and equipping allied nations with enhanced Mk 45 gun systems to address current and future threats.”
The cost-effective CCS upgrade ensures that Mk 45 gun systems remain supportable for decades to come and ready to integrate the latest, most innovative technology features to support advanced munitions and future mission capabilities for a significantly lower cost than a new gun.
Work on the contract will take place at the BAE Systems production facility in Louisville, Kentucky with the first delivery planned in early 2026.
002/2024
BAE Systems to provide critical Mk 45 upgrade to Australian Navy frigates
BAE Systems was awarded a contract by the Commonwealth of Australia to upgrade existing Mk 45 Mod 2 naval gun systems on Anzac class frigates with a Common Control System (CCS). The upgrade modifies existing gun systems to eliminate obsolescence issues and extend the life of the gun system.
Sounds like electronics only, not new gun shields and barrel etc?
8 Jan 2024
BAE Systems was awarded a contract by the Commonwealth of Australia to upgrade existing Mk 45 Mod 2 naval gun systems on Anzac class frigates with a Common Control System (CCS).
The upgrade modifies existing Mk 45 systems to eliminate obsolescence issues and extend the life of the gun system.
The CCS upgrade replaces electronics on earlier Mk 45 Mod 1 and Mod 2 gun systems to be compatible with the Mk 45 Mod 4, the latest configuration used by the U.S. Navy. In addition to delivering commonality and interoperability with the U.S. Navy’s gun systems, the upgrade will equip the Mk 45s with the capability to integrate future extended-range precision guided munitions, such as the hypervelocity projectile.
“The Common Control System upgrade is the most cost-effective way to extend the life of Mk 45 gun systems, enabling them to provide critical ship naval fires and creating a configuration that allows for the integration of future precision guided munitions” said Brent Butcher, vice president of weapon systems at BAE Systems. “We are committed to modernizing and equipping allied nations with enhanced Mk 45 gun systems to address current and future threats.”
The cost-effective CCS upgrade ensures that Mk 45 gun systems remain supportable for decades to come and ready to integrate the latest, most innovative technology features to support advanced munitions and future mission capabilities for a significantly lower cost than a new gun.
Work on the contract will take place at the BAE Systems production facility in Louisville, Kentucky with the first delivery planned in early 2026.
002/2024
I served with a pommy chief stoker who served twice on Victory; once as an AB and the 2nd time as a CPO Stoker. He was short and reckoned his head had the odd meeting with the deckheads. Nice bloke but unfortunately crossed the bar recently.
AUSTRALIA – GENERAL TOMAHAWK WEAPONS SYSTEM SUPPORT SERVICES UPLIFT
Sounds like we are really going all in on Tomahawk… I’m amazed the government hasn’t taken the easy win and gone with Tomahawk onto Collins, yet…
PDF Version
Press Release - Australia 23-91 CN_0.pdf
Media/Public Contact
[email protected]
Transmittal No
23-91
WASHINGTON, January 10, 2024 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Australia of General Tomahawk Weapons System Support Services Uplift and related equipment for an estimated cost of $250 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.
The Government of Australia has requested to buy services to support the Tomahawk Weapon System, including general weapons support services; logistics support management; material support; engineering technical support; management of technical data; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total cost is $250 million.
This proposed sale will support the foreign policy and national security objectives of the United States. Australia is one of our most important allies. The strategic location of this political and economic power contributes significantly to ensuring peace and economic stability in the Western Pacific. It is vital to the U.S. national interest to assist our ally in developing and maintaining a strong and ready self-defense capability.
The proposed sale will allow Australia to better utilize the Tomahawk Weapon System it is procuring and ensure appropriate weapon pairing is evaluated to identify defined targets more precisely. It will also assist and contribute to Australia’s joint maritime weapon technology development, analysis, and implementation; support multiple lines of effort to enhance interoperability and interchangeability with the United States; and uplift joint warfighting operational effects.
The proposed sale of this support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.
The principal contractor(s) will be determined as the Government of Australia identifies its specific annual and quarterly requirements for weapons uplift support. There are no known offset agreements in connection with this potential sale.
Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any additional U.S. Government or contractor representatives to Australia.
There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.
The description and dollar value are for the highest estimated quantity and dollar value based on initial requirements. Actual dollar value will be lower depending on final requirements, budget authority, and signed sales agreement(s), if and when concluded.
All questions regarding this proposed Foreign Military Sale should be directed to the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs, [email protected].
-30-
Sounds like we are really going all in on Tomahawk… I’m amazed the government hasn’t taken the easy win and gone with Tomahawk onto Collins, yet…
PDF Version
Press Release - Australia 23-91 CN_0.pdf
Media/Public Contact
[email protected]
Transmittal No
23-91
WASHINGTON, January 10, 2024 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Australia of General Tomahawk Weapons System Support Services Uplift and related equipment for an estimated cost of $250 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.
The Government of Australia has requested to buy services to support the Tomahawk Weapon System, including general weapons support services; logistics support management; material support; engineering technical support; management of technical data; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total cost is $250 million.
This proposed sale will support the foreign policy and national security objectives of the United States. Australia is one of our most important allies. The strategic location of this political and economic power contributes significantly to ensuring peace and economic stability in the Western Pacific. It is vital to the U.S. national interest to assist our ally in developing and maintaining a strong and ready self-defense capability.
The proposed sale will allow Australia to better utilize the Tomahawk Weapon System it is procuring and ensure appropriate weapon pairing is evaluated to identify defined targets more precisely. It will also assist and contribute to Australia’s joint maritime weapon technology development, analysis, and implementation; support multiple lines of effort to enhance interoperability and interchangeability with the United States; and uplift joint warfighting operational effects.
The proposed sale of this support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.
The principal contractor(s) will be determined as the Government of Australia identifies its specific annual and quarterly requirements for weapons uplift support. There are no known offset agreements in connection with this potential sale.
Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any additional U.S. Government or contractor representatives to Australia.
There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.
The description and dollar value are for the highest estimated quantity and dollar value based on initial requirements. Actual dollar value will be lower depending on final requirements, budget authority, and signed sales agreement(s), if and when concluded.
All questions regarding this proposed Foreign Military Sale should be directed to the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs, [email protected].
-30-
Scott Elaurant
Well-Known Member
Regarding the Tomahawk order, is the torpedo tube/capsule launched Tomahawk for subs still in production?
I thought since the US moved to VLS fired Tomahawks in their VIrginias and Ohio SSGNs and UK had acquired its lot for the Astutes the torpedo launched Tomahawk was out of production? Obviously the order can still be used on Hobarts.
www.navalnews.com
I thought since the US moved to VLS fired Tomahawks in their VIrginias and Ohio SSGNs and UK had acquired its lot for the Astutes the torpedo launched Tomahawk was out of production? Obviously the order can still be used on Hobarts.
Australia to Upgrade Collins Submarines with Tomahawk Missiles - Naval News
Australia is looking at outfitting its in-service Collins-class submarines with Tomahawk land attack cruise missiles as part of their forthcoming Life of Type Extension (LOTE).
www.navalnews.com
AndyinOz
Member
I believe that to be the case, the TTL (torpedo tubes launch) canister differs from the VLS canister in that it's designed to be ejected from the tube after launch. The VLS variant is removed in port. From what I understand that is the component no longer in production. Public domain information regarding future procurement that I've seen specifically show no production of the TTL canister going forward. I am not sure but I imagine the ability to do so still exists.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
The other issue for the RAN fitting Tomahawks to the Collins class, is lack of rack space. They can only carry about 22 weapons, including Mk 48 HWTs and Harpoon AShMs so any Tomahawks are going to eat into available weapon space. The Astutes on the other hand can carry up to 38 weapons.
Scott Elaurant
Well-Known Member
If we are going to have Collins Class in service for some years more, and torpedo tube launched Tomahawks are not available, is there an option to get the UK/French StormShadow/SCALP missile in service to provide a torpedo tube launched SLCM for the RAN? Its performance in the Ukraine war looks to have been pretty good with recent attacks on Sevastapol by both reportedly knocking out Russian warships in dry dock. It may not be quite as long ranged as Tomahawk (1000km vs 1600km) but is stealthy, hard hitting and evidently not easily shot down by Russian pattern air defences. It would give the RAN a sub launched cruise missile capability for the first time, and a decade sooner.
French submarine fires a cruise missile for the first time
"For the first time, a French submarine has fired a cruise missile."
ukdefencejournal.org.uk
The Tomahawk fired by Astute weighs 1300kg and is 5.5 metres long.
The SCALP/MdCN fired from the Suffren SSN weighs 1400kg and is 6.5 metres long. It is reportedly the same missile as Storm Shadow, so I assume the difference in length is due to the capsule for torpedo launch.
MdCN (missile) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
They would have to be integrated into the US AN/BYG-1 CMS that the Collins use, not sure the Americans would allow the French anywhere near it.If we are going to have Collins Class in service for some years more, and torpedo tube launched Tomahawks are not available, is there an option to get the UK/French StormShadow/SCALP missile in service to provide a torpedo tube launched SLCM for the RAN? Its performance in the Ukraine war looks to have been pretty good with recent attacks on Sevastapol by both reportedly knocking out Russian warships in dry dock. It may not be quite as long ranged as Tomahawk (1000km vs 1600km) but is stealthy, hard hitting and evidently not easily shot down by Russian pattern air defences. It would give the RAN a sub launched cruise missile capability for the first time, and a decade sooner.
French submarine fires a cruise missile for the first time
"For the first time, a French submarine has fired a cruise missile."
The Tomahawk fired by Astute weighs 1300kg and is 5.5 metres long.
The SCALP/MdCN fired from the Suffren SSN weighs 1400kg and is 6.5 metres long. It is reportedly the same missile as Storm Shadow, so I assume the difference in length is due to the capsule for torpedo launch.
MdCN (missile) - Wikipedia
OldTex
Well-Known Member
I think you will find that it would go both ways. The US not wanting the French to have too many details about the AN/BYG-1 CMS and the French not wanting to have too many details about SCALP. All of which means that it would be very difficult to get a full and functional integration, and the ones who would suffer would be the RAN.