Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I am not a fan of Corvette sized ships. I think we need to heed the lessons we gained with the ANZACs where we bought a smallish frigate but very quickly found ourselves having to add more weapons, sensors and capability. The Poms got it right with the Type 31. If you can't afford a warship with all the bells and whistles at least get a big hull capable of accepting future upgrades.
The corvettes are not, and never have been proposed as an ANZAC replacement. The only official capacity they have ever been mentioned or considered has been as replacements for patrol boats and alternatives to OPVs.

Back when the ANZACs were ordered they were criticised for being too big and too expensive for their Patrol Frigate brief. Actually everyone was knocking them, too slow, too poorly armed, not enough growth potential, too big, too heavily armed and too fast.

The thing is, they were smaller, cheaper alternatives to building high end ASW frigates. Every capability you examine is a smaller cheaper alternative to what preceded it.

The Perth/Adams class DDGs were belated replacements for the last of the RANs cruisers. I'm not saying they were specifically procured as alternatives to cruisers, but rather the replacement of the RANs prewar built cruisers and war built large destroyers (destroyer leaders/DLs), was delayed for so long that the RAN got used to not having the capability and the public forgot about it all together.

End result, the RAN needed DLGs and got fleet destroyers / DDGs, and spent their entire survice life trying to cram the required capability into them. Sound familiar?

FFGs were replacements for the cancelled DDL, which had morphed into replacements for the Daring Class large destroyers, that by default, following the acquisition of the Perth's, had become fleet destroyers. The DDL had originally been seen as a supplement to increase fleet numbers, a patrol frigate as such.

The Attack class patrol boats were meant to supplement the DDLs.

So looking at the actual requirements for the RAN, and they should have had three or four DLGs, three to five DDGs (DDG conversions of the Darings and Battles), four to twelve DEs, and sufficient DDLs to bring total combatant numbers up to twenty three. There would have been twenty patrol boats on top of this, and don't for get the three carriers to support the two ocean navy.

Every acquisition resulted in a smaller number of less capable vessels than were actually required. Every replacement program saw a lower spec ( in comparison to global standards) design selected than requirements demanded.

Every generation saw a reduction in comparative capability and often numbers.

The corvettes are not a proposed replacement for the ANZACs they are a sensible alternative to patrol boats. The replacement for the ANZACs, the Hunters, are actually the long over due replacement for the DEs. The Hobart's are three FFGs, replacing six, and the DDGs were never really replaced.
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
Is it just me but aren’t OPV’s still a very much required part of any navy?
I understand everyone wants combatants but the Arafura class with its modular design will be a very capable vessel and a workhorse undertaking many roles just not on the front line.
Some navies have them. Some allocate the tasks of an OPV to a coastguard.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
The corvettes are not, and never have been proposed as an ANZAC replacement. The only official capacity they have ever been mentioned or considered has been as replacements for patrol boats and alternatives to OPVs.

Back when the ANZACs were ordered they were criticised for being too big and too expensive for their Patrol Frigate brief. Actually everyone was knocking them, too slow, too poorly armed, not enough growth potential, too big, too heavily armed and too fast.

The thing is, they were smaller, cheaper alternatives to building high end ASW frigates. Every capability you examine is a smaller cheaper alternative to what preceded it.

The Perth/Adams class DDGs were belated replacements for the last of the RANs cruisers. I'm not saying they were specifically procured as alternatives to cruisers, but rather the replacement of the RANs prewar built cruisers and war built large destroyers (destroyer leaders/DLs), was delayed for so long that the RAN got used to not having the capability and the public forgot about it all together.

End result, the RAN needed DLGs and got fleet destroyers / DDGs, and spent their entire survive life trying to cram the required capability into them. Sound familiar?

FFGs were replacements for the cancelled DDL, which had morphed into replacements for the Daring Class large destroyers, that by default, following the acquisition of the Perth's, had become fleet destroyers. The DDL had originally been seen as a supplement to increase fleet numbers, a patrol frigate as such.

The Attack class patrol boats were meant to supplement the DDLs.

So looking at the actual requirements for the RAN, and they should have had three or four DLGs, three to five DDGs (DDG conversions of the Darings and Battles), four to twelve DEs, and sufficient DDLs to bring total combatant numbers up to twenty three. There would have been twenty patrol boats on top of this, and don't for get the three carriers to support the two ocean navy.

Every acquisition resulted in a smaller number of less capable vessels than were actually required. Every replacement program saw a lower spec ( in comparison to global standards) design selected than requirements demanded.

Every generation saw a reduction in comparative capability and often numbers.

The corvettes are not a proposed replacement for the ANZACs they are a sensible alternative to patrol boats. The replacement for the ANZACs, the Hunters, are actually the long over due replacement for the DEs. The Hobart's are three FFGs, replacing six, and the DDGs were never really replaced.
If we had gone with the original DDL plan of an Australian designed and built DDL, we would then be in a far better shape to design and build a Daring replacement. then maybe a stretched version of that to replace the Perths, by then you are back to replacing the DDLs. Maybe not a continuous build but at least a Continuous design philosophy of getting ships that suit Australia's needs, not those of the USN, Armada, RN or German Navy.
As you say the Hobarts are FFGs but what choice did we really have in 2005, we could not man Burkes. Sachsens, T-45s and Horizons would have required a complete re-design of their Combat systems, Baby Burkes were a paper design that was not going to be ready in time. We keep trying to fit square pegs into round holes, by turning them into square holes instead.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Some navies have them. Some allocate the tasks of an OPV to a coastguard.
Australia needs a US style Coastguard, unfortunately our population distribution makes that impossible. On the entire Australian coast where the PBs operate, from Cairns to Perth there is just one Population centre of more than 10,000 (Darwin-150,000) and a handful of towns with populations of more than 1,000.
 

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Australia needs a US style Coastguard, unfortunately our population distribution makes that impossible. On the entire Australian coast where the PBs operate, from Cairns to Perth there is just one Population centre of more than 10,000 (Darwin-150,000) and a handful of towns with populations of more than 1,000.
It certainly would resolve some of the issue in the relationship between Border Force (Customs, immigration etc) and the RAN but I suspect it is a move too far politically. The move to the OPV (and out of the Cape/Armidale class) would have positioned the RAN function further out and would ilikely have picked up some of the international drug interdiction work that was being done by the ANZACs.

It will be interesting to see how the SDR looks at this.
 

NewOzMember

New Member
I've held the strong personal view that Virginia Class is the only real option for Australia for quite some time so I have read the discussions here with interest; I could go into a lot of detail on how I formed this position but we are so close to an announcement now that it's somewhat pointless.
I don't think this has been linked here before, I think the timing is interesting, 1 of 3 new US submarine facilities to be built in the coming years;
Also this one from HII;
Lastly, this confirms that the AUKUS announcement will be in Washington DC the US of A.

@NewOzMember

Sorry you do not get away with it that easily. Folk are a tad fed up with claims of a strong reason to support their judgement …. Without the detail.

I have no issue with you indicating that you, personally, prefer the Virginia…. But if you claim to have a strong argument to support that it is the ‘only option’ then provide it. I would suggest that you consider issues such as sovereignty when you make your points.

Regards

Alexsa
 
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Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
If we had gone with the original DDL plan of an Australian designed and built DDL, we would then be in a far better shape to design and build a Daring replacement. then maybe a stretched version of that to replace the Perths, by then you are back to replacing the DDLs. Maybe not a continuous build but at least a Continuous design philosophy of getting ships that suit Australia's needs, not those of the USN, Armada, RN or German Navy.
As you say the Hobarts are FFGs but what choice did we really have in 2005, we could not man Burkes. Sachsens, T-45s and Horizons would have required a complete re-design of their Combat systems, Baby Burkes were a paper design that was not going to be ready in time. We keep trying to fit square pegs into round holes, by turning them into square holes instead.
The best way forward at any given time depends where you start.

The reality is we are where we are right now, the way forward is getting what we can in the water so we have something to grow the skilled people we need to build, sustain and operate what we need going forward.

One of the reasons the RAN knocked back the Kidd class destroyers was the fear that having four "good enough" destroyers would result in the government failing to order the proper DDG replacements that were meant to follow the FFG upgrade. Another factor was it was anticipated two FFGs would have to be retired without upgrade to free up money and personnel for the four Kidd's in addition to those made available by retiring the Perth's.

I imagine a very different decision would have been made had those involved realised they were turning down a fleet of eight perfectly good enough destroyers and frigates to end up with only four upgraded FFGs then three frigoyers.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I haven't commented much here on the debate over the future of the RAN surface fleet, but in light of the above map, I have a few thoughts:
1. Australia also needs surface combatants with long range, at least 5000nm, preferably more.
I am of the opinion that any RAN / RNZN vessel should have a range of >7,000nm. If you use Antarctica as an example, it's ~ 2,500nm from Christchurch to McMurdo Sound and probably 3,500+ nm from Hobart to the closest Australian Antarctic base. It's ~3,000 nm from Perth to Sydney and a probably a similar distance from Perth across the top end of WA to Darwin. What is it from Sydney to Darwin by sea? If you have a ship out of FBE sailing to the SCS it's a long way, especially in war time. A ship sailing from FBW it's even longer.
2. If the Ukraine - Russia conflict in the Black Sea is any guide, the need for substantial SAM defences on warships is increasing.
3. From a constructability, operability and economy viewpoint, we ought to be building ships in larger class numbers.
4. There is a pressing need to increase hull numbers of major surface combatants in the RAN.
5. All of this suggests the need for more "full sized" frigates and destroyers for the RAN, nor corvettes.
I would argue that the RAN requires DDG / FFG / AND corvettes and more DDG.
Based on this, my broad views on what the RAN should build are as follows:
1. Accept Navantia offer to build 3 more destroyers ASAP. These should be the latest iteration (AWD with updated components) and built in Spain for economy and so as not to disrupt local builds. Effectively this is the "catch-up" build.
2. Proceed ASAP with local production of 6 Hunter Class frigates. Do not interrupt or change the build.
3. Accept BAE offer to develop AA/SSM version of Hunter. Build six to follow immediately after the six Hunters. Keep engines etc in common with Hunters to minimise design change as much as possible. i.e. build 12 similar hulls.
4. Keep building modified Arafura OPVs for patrol, mining etc.

In all cases the aim is to build a small number of classes, in large enough numbers to get some economy of scale (6+) and focus on large surface units. All of 1, 2 and 3 would be equipped commonly with local 3D radar, SH60, SM2, ESSM, NSM, and Tomahawk to get as much commonality in weapons fit as possible. Whatever their flaws, existing designs would be stuck to as much as possible, to avoid delay from new designs.

I haven't gone for corvettes at all. I assume for six corvettes the RAN could get 3 AWDs. My 2 cents.
I am given to understand that the Navantia F100 series FFGs has reached the limit of their growth capability and any further DDG based on that design is a waste of money.

@ADMk2 has made very valid points in his post above that a worth considerable consideration:
The driving philosophy therefore behind the Corvette concept is ‘you fight with what you have’ and the Corvette idea centres on the belief that actual hulls fitted out with their combat systems could be delivered in as little as 3 years, with such a belief based on actual offers that have been made, ie: Navantia’s offer to the Hellenic navy and that such rapid delivery is necessary in our current strategic environment. ... “Perfect is the enemy of good enough“ as they say, perhaps our current strategic environment may force Government and RAN to learn that lesson…

That is why I am strong advocate for corvettes. It's the ability to build something quickly and have it operational quickly. Perfect is great if you have the time, but good enough is what is required to get hulls in the water quickly enough. People appear to be fixated on having all the bells and whistles that are the best in the world, but that doesn't get you enough ships for the price, or hulls in the water quickly enough.
I am not a fan of Corvette sized ships. I think we need to heed the lessons we gained with the ANZACs where we bought a smallish frigate but very quickly found ourselves having to add more weapons, sensors and capability. The Poms got it right with the Type 31. If you can't afford a warship with all the bells and whistles at least get a big hull capable of accepting future upgrades.
Being a fan doesn't matter, what is required is expediency and practicality. The object of the exercise is to increase the shooty shooty bang bang side of the RAN quickly.
Long time lurker, first time poster. I’m quite impressed with the level of knowledge here and was hoping to bounce this idea off some of you, please be gentle!

I think that the Mogami may be a good fit for the RAN. A small stealth GP frigate that is pretty cheap with small crew comparable to other FFGs.

Could it be a solution to the corvette question that is being asked? Also may be a credible mine warfare ship as well?

The ship looks well armed for its size with a 5” gun, 8 ASM (maybe could fit up to 16 NSM?), torpedo tubes, 16 cell mk41 VLS, Searam (change to phalanx?) and helicopter.

I’m not to sure about how capable the systems and sensors are as configured for Japan. I would assume that the RAN would want 9LV, a variant of CEAFAR and CEC? Or could they operate as is?

The crew size looks great at only 90. This thing appears to be able to lay and also detect mines. It’s also able to operate unmanned vehicles through a rear ramp under the helicopter landing which sounds like a great capability.

A concern I have is that I have been unable to find any info on the range and endurance though and this is highly important for RAN use, so this may be a show stopper if it’s not very good.

Could any of our shipyards build this relatively soon? If we could build this cost effectively maybe the RNZN may be interested as an ANZAC replacement.
The Mogami Class hull would be a good choice for a corvette. As such it doesn't require the 5in / 127mm gun with a 57mm or 76mm being ideal. The sensors don't need to be the same as the Hunter Class sensors and 4 - 8 AShM. By automation and the weight reduction room can be made for extra bunkerage. Also a modular system such as the SH Defence's "The Cube" system can give greater versatility.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
I am of the opinion that any RAN / RNZN vessel should have a range of >7,000nm. If you use Antarctica as an example, it's ~ 2,500nm from Christchurch to McMurdo Sound and probably 3,500+ nm from Hobart to the closest Australian Antarctic base. It's ~3,000 nm from Perth to Sydney and a probably a similar distance from Perth across the top end of WA to Darwin. What is it from Sydney to Darwin by sea? If you have a ship out of FBE sailing to the SCS it's a long way, especially in war time. A ship sailing from FBW it's even longer.

I would argue that the RAN requires DDG / FFG / AND corvettes and more DDG.

I am given to understand that the Navantia F100 series FFGs has reached the limit of their growth capability and any further DDG based on that design is a waste of money.

@ADMk2 has made very valid points in his post above that a worth considerable consideration:
The driving philosophy therefore behind the Corvette concept is ‘you fight with what you have’ and the Corvette idea centres on the belief that actual hulls fitted out with their combat systems could be delivered in as little as 3 years, with such a belief based on actual offers that have been made, ie: Navantia’s offer to the Hellenic navy and that such rapid delivery is necessary in our current strategic environment. ... “Perfect is the enemy of good enough“ as they say, perhaps our current strategic environment may force Government and RAN to learn that lesson…

That is why I am strong advocate for corvettes. It's the ability to build something quickly and have it operational quickly. Perfect is great if you have the time, but good enough is what is required to get hulls in the water quickly enough. People appear to be fixated on having all the bells and whistles that are the best in the world, but that doesn't get you enough ships for the price, or hulls in the water quickly enough.

Being a fan doesn't matter, what is required is expediency and practicality. The object of the exercise is to increase the shooty shooty bang bang side of the RAN quickly.

The Mogami Class hull would be a good choice for a corvette. As such it doesn't require the 5in / 127mm gun with a 57mm or 76mm being ideal. The sensors don't need to be the same as the Hunter Class sensors and 4 - 8 AShM. By automation and the weight reduction room can be made for extra bunkerage. Also a modular system such as the SH Defence's "The Cube" system can give greater versatility.
I do think that if Australia went with a lighter Gun than the 127mm, it would be the Mk110 57mm, as it will be used by 3 of our 5 Eyes partners, especially the USN, making re-supply in a war zone easier.
 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
Perhaps this post should be on the A.D.F ,but getting more bang for the buck and quickly as well, why not an aviation solution ,this would not have high levels of trained manning as per on ships ,aviation assets can be dispatched to the area of contention quickly , The R.A.A.F has indicated a preference for a fifth generation fleet but there could be fourth ++ aircraft that may provide additional capabilities and procured quicker than building and manning ships and perhaps the "Drumbeat" of Hunter class could be assessed for increasing
 

Scott Elaurant

Well-Known Member
I've held the strong personal view that Virginia Class is the only real option for Australia for quite some time so I have read the discussions here with interest; I could go into a lot of detail on how I formed this position but we are so close to an announcement now that it's somewhat pointless.
I don't think this has been linked here before, I think the timing is interesting, 1 of 3 new US submarine facilities to be built in the coming years;
Also this one from HII;
Lastly, this confirms that the AUKUS announcement will be in Washington DC the US of A.
@NewOzMember

I have a different view on the desirability of Virginias vs Astutes for the RAN. But regardless of the capability of each SSN, I have been concerned that the debate about which SSN is best has completly ignored other more important factors: cost, constructability and operability for the RAN.

On all three of these factors, IMO Virginias come second. They are more costly, more difficult to build in ASC, and more difficult to operate in the RAN owing to larger crew requirements and longer USN training regime.

The articles you linked above are increases in US SSN construction capability previously announced and needed for USN SSN construction to reach the required rate to meet planned fleet numbers. There is no advice that they would provide spare capacity to enable SSN construction for the RAN. To date it has been well below the planned rate (1.2 SSNs per year vs 2 SSNs per year) never mind the desired rate (3 SSNs per year). So IMO there is still little prospect of US built Vieginias for the RAN. Then the question is - can we build Virginias in ASC?

Yet the Virginia is a poor option to build at ASC for multiple reasons:
- US technology export rules (ITAR) still not repealed
- very few of the firms in the Virginia supply chain are in Australia
- on current prices the Virginia would be almost 1/3 more expensive per sub.

So I am not suggesting the Virginias is not a capable SSN. My concern is we cannot realistically get them. So far two US Admirals and two Senators have said the same.[/QUOTE]
 
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Massive

Well-Known Member
I feel that effectively where this debate has ended up is that the required fleet is something along the lines of:

8 SSN

8 Air Warfare Destroyers (likely larger than the Hobarts
8 Large ASW Frigates

8 GP frigates (~5000t)

12 OPV

8 Mine warfare

2 LHD
2 JSS

2 Oiler

This leaves out:

LCH replacement
Any logistics support vessels (a la Point class)
Any discussion of aircraft carriers

Be interesting to see where the RAN ends up.

Regards,

Massive
 

swerve

Super Moderator
I am of the opinion that any RAN / RNZN vessel should have a range of >7,000nm. If you use Antarctica as an example, it's ~ 2,500nm from Christchurch to McMurdo Sound and probably 3,500+ nm from Hobart to the closest Australian Antarctic base. It's ~3,000 nm from Perth to Sydney and a probably a similar distance from Perth across the top end of WA to Darwin. What is it from Sydney to Darwin by sea? If you have a ship out of FBE sailing to the SCS it's a long way, especially in war time. A ship sailing from FBW it's even longer.

I would argue that the RAN requires DDG / FFG / AND corvettes and more DDG.

I am given to understand that the Navantia F100 series FFGs has reached the limit of their growth capability and any further DDG based on that design is a waste of money.

@ADMk2 has made very valid points in his post above that a worth considerable consideration:
The driving philosophy therefore behind the Corvette concept is ‘you fight with what you have’ and the Corvette idea centres on the belief that actual hulls fitted out with their combat systems could be delivered in as little as 3 years, with such a belief based on actual offers that have been made, ie: Navantia’s offer to the Hellenic navy and that such rapid delivery is necessary in our current strategic environment. ... “Perfect is the enemy of good enough“ as they say, perhaps our current strategic environment may force Government and RAN to learn that lesson…

That is why I am strong advocate for corvettes. It's the ability to build something quickly and have it operational quickly. Perfect is great if you have the time, but good enough is what is required to get hulls in the water quickly enough. People appear to be fixated on having all the bells and whistles that are the best in the world, but that doesn't get you enough ships for the price, or hulls in the water quickly enough.

Being a fan doesn't matter, what is required is expediency and practicality. The object of the exercise is to increase the shooty shooty bang bang side of the RAN quickly.

The Mogami Class hull would be a good choice for a corvette. As such it doesn't require the 5in / 127mm gun with a 57mm or 76mm being ideal. The sensors don't need to be the same as the Hunter Class sensors and 4 - 8 AShM. By automation and the weight reduction room can be made for extra bunkerage. Also a modular system such as the SH Defence's "The Cube" system can give greater versatility.
Mogami class hull, or hull & propulsion? Would a corvette-ised Mogami need the 30+ knots & MT30 GT? And if not, would the degree of redesign needed be too much?

Much as I like the Mogami, the description I read here of what's needed rather resembles Type 31 (not the up-armed Polish version of Arrowhead 140), though I can see the same problem with both: even corvette-ised, they're rather too big warship like, at 15-20 metres longer than the ANZACs. That could fall foul of politics.
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
I feel that effectively where this debate has ended up is that the required fleet is something along the lines of:

8 SSN

8 Air Warfare Destroyers (likely larger than the Hobarts
8 Large ASW Frigates

8 GP frigates (~5000t)

12 OPV

8 Mine warfare

2 LHD
2 JSS

2 Oiler

This leaves out:

LCH replacement
Any logistics support vessels (a la Point class)
Any discussion of aircraft carriers

Be interesting to see where the RAN ends up.

Regards,

Massive
Actually no mention of the JSS. Whether that would still fit in with the defence strategy remains to be seen.
 

ddxx

Well-Known Member
Much as I like the Mogami, the description I read here of what's needed rather resembles Type 31 (not the up-armed Polish version of Arrowhead 140), though I can see the same problem with both: even corvette-ised, they're rather too big warship like, at 15-20 metres longer than the ANZACs. That could fall foul of politics.
I don't believe size would be a political issue in any way, but cost and overall value for money certainly would be.

Like the original role of the Anzac Class, these ships would be Second Rate, or 'Mid-Tier' Combatants. We were very lucky that Anzac did have some level of margin for adapting to their current role, and even that was a difficult task due to their relatively compact hull - trade offs had to be made.

This wouldn't be an issue for a platform like the Arrowhead 140, which has the space, weight and power margins to be able to adapt to meet changes in the strategic environment throughout life of type.

Space also has another often overlooked benefit: liveability. Plenty of space makes for a better working environment, which is crucial for retention.

Actually no mention of the JSS. Whether that would still fit in with the defence strategy remains to be seen.
I think there's still a valid question around whether it would be better to order another AOR and allow the planned JSS's to focus on the Sealift and Amphibious roles (alongside solid replenishment & HADR).

Trying to also cram in the fuel replenishment function means you're going to have less capacity for everything else, along with less fuel capacity than a AOR. This means you may often require a dedicated AOR and a JSS, removing the efficiencies of having everything in one hull.

BMT's Ellida looks like it would be a great fit - I do question whether we'd be better of having them built in South Korea for a faster (and potentially cheaper) delivery, with fitting out in Australia. The new Henderson dry dock isn't even due for completion until the end of the decade, and will still have a critical function for sustainment.
 

Massive

Well-Known Member
Actually no mention of the JSS. Whether that would still fit in with the defence strategy remains to be seen.
That's fair.

If you have 24 destroyers/frigates you likely need more than 2 oilers.

And 2 LHD does not give you a heap of lift, so you likely need an additional 1/2 LSDor similar.

Which makes the JSS concept attractive.

Not advocating to be honest, just recording the scale of the ambition.

Regards,

Massive

***Posted before ddxx's reply above - leaving here but acknowledge ddxx's points***
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
We won't know until next month what exactly will happen but at the moment the only thing we can be reasonly confident about is that the navy will be getting SSNs and the Hunter program looks reasonably safe. As far as I am concerned everything else is up in the air.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Something I would urge members to consider before posting suggestions or beliefs on what the RAN could get in terms of new/additional vessels from various sources, is just how long it would actually take for said new/additional vessels to be brought into RAN service.

There does seem to be a recurring theme where people look at various offers or announcements from different nations or manufacturers and then interpret that to mean that XX vessels could be built for the RAN and be in service by NN date. This is particularly relevant for those concerned about a potential need for the RAN to have more warships in service before the Hunter-class FFG enters service, i.e. between now and ~2030/2032.

As little as I like it, the timelines for just about everything which would get more warships in the fleet just do not add up, and that is something which seems to be glossed over or ignored. Repeatedly.

Consider too that if additional warships were built for the RAN, then builders or acceptance trials would need to be conducted, prior to the warships actually being available for service. There could also be a need for tests of various ship systems. Looking at HMAS Hobart, trials were in 2016, handover to the RAN by mid-2017, and then several months of testing in US waters during 2018, all before the first operational deployment.

Also, if any such hypothetical build were to be done, and done using existing or available kit vs. what is normally used by and already in RAN service, then additional time would be needed to train RAN personnel on the operation and maintenance/support of the new kit, as well as to establish any needed stock of parts and/or ordnance.
 

Takao

The Bunker Group
Perhaps this post should be on the A.D.F ,but getting more bang for the buck and quickly as well, why not an aviation solution ,this would not have high levels of trained manning as per on ships ,aviation assets can be dispatched to the area of contention quickly , The R.A.A.F has indicated a preference for a fifth generation fleet but there could be fourth ++ aircraft that may provide additional capabilities and procured quicker than building and manning ships and perhaps the "Drumbeat" of Hunter class could be assessed for increasing
Because aviation isn't persistent. Especially at range. They are also intensive in needs for supporting elements - a DDG can be self-sufficient (yes, yes, RAS is a thing, I know), but a F/A-18E is going to need KC-30 support at a minimum. Also, if the weather comes up, you don't fly. And even if it's clear over the battlefield, if its storming on RAAF Townsville (for instance), you aren't launching.

Even during peacetime, the diplomatic work the RAN does in the region could not be replicated. When our ships deploy to support a JSDF exercise for instance, they stop off at a dozen nations as they travel up and back. Now, when you talk about wartime missions like escorts, the RAN ships can actually stick with the convoys.

Like ground forces, the RAAF provides outstanding support to the RAN. But the missions/roles/tasks of the RAN cannot be replicated by air power.
 
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