The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

Ananda

The Bunker Group

This article today from Washington Post. Clearly western media that far from pro Russia and use to give more on Ukraine media possition. Even them talk about how Ukranian soldiers in hospital shown Russia has better ammo supplies and somewhat resulted in better casualties counts.

The Article is behind pay wall, but it provide option for you to have 4 weeks trials. The way I read this, shown that Ukranian soldiers that being send on the offensive is not all in similar standard. Thus Russia is not the only sides that have unequel standard on their soldiers and reserve in that fronts (combination of DPR reservists and Russian regulars).

All this in my opinion shown the calculation in the fronts is still fluids. However still far from Pro Ukraine twitters that shown Russian line is collapsing.
 
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STURM

Well-Known Member

An interview on the TB2 with a Turkish expert [prior to the Ukrainian invasion he was hired by the British army to look at ways in how TB2s could benefit the Ukrainians]. Instead of posting it in the UAS thread I posted it here because he goes into detail on the performance of the TB2 in the Ukraine; including some of the challenges Russian AD systems and EW faced in countering UASs. He naturally also touches on the Armenia/Azerbaijan conflict; including the differences between the Azeris and Ukrainians in how they respectively handled their UAS operations.

Very interestingly he mentions a HALE platform which can be equipped with a AESA and carry a 200km cruise missile being sold to the Ukraine; the first export sale. Turkey has certainly come a very long way from the 1990's when it was totally dependent on American and Israeli short range platforms [the Turks were unhappy with both] but in the coming years as countries acquire the capability to counter UASs with dedicated systems [Libya, Syria, Nargano Karabakh and the Ukraine has been a major wake up call]; really remains to be seen how survivable UASs will be in future conflicts.
 
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Aerojoe

Member

An interview on the TB2 with a Turkish expert [prior to the Ukrainian invasion he was hired by the British army to look at ways in how TB2s could benefit the Ukrainians]. Instead of posting it in the UAS thread I posted it here because he goes into detail on the performance of the TB2 in the Ukraine; including some of the challenges Russian AD systems and EW faced in countering UASs. He naturally also touches on the Armenia/Azerbaijan conflict; including the differences between the Azeris and Ukrainians in how they respectively handled their UAS operations.

Very interestingly he mentions a HALE platform which can be equipped with a AESA and carry a 200km cruise missile being sold to the Ukraine; the first export sale. Turkey has certainly come a very long way from the 1990's when it was totally dependent on American and Israeli short range platforms [the Turks were unhappy with both] but in the coming years as countries acquire the capability to counter UASs with dedicated systems [Libya, Syria, Nargano Karabakh and the Ukraine has been a major wake up call]; really remains to be seen how survivable UASs will be in future conflicts.
Have they supplied Ukraine a TB2 with 200km cruise missile capability or is that version still to be produced?
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Post 3 of 3: Updates on action in Kherson & Kharkiv

10. The Russians deployed in Kherson & Kharkiv are on the defensive. The 6 Sept 2022 Ukrainian North Eastern attack in Kharkiv was likely an opportunistic effort enabled by the redeployment of Russian forces to reinforce Russian positions against the Ukrainian Southern offensive in Kherson Oblast, that started 6 days ago. At some cost to themselves, the Ukrainian Army (UA) are seizing defended territory from the Russian Army whilst whittling down their combat power in these sectors.
(a) It’s almost like symphony of patience and strategy realized. The whole country kept silent watching the ABGs and infantry battalions of this offence form. They saw it being build over months and kept silent. An account from a Russian Channel says that Ukraine massed a “powerful tank fist” with 15 tanks at Balakliya, which led to the breakthrough. They say Russian aviation couldn’t help in time because Ukraine saturated the area with air defenses.​
(b) Any smart military plan gives your enemy multiple options on how they want to die for their country. Ukraine’s Army seems to have applied that concept against Russian forces. It is likely that Ukraine can't sustain this level of ops for a longer than 4 more weeks, as it is burning its theatre reserves of manpower, ammo stockpiles, and hardware.​
(c) The Ukrainian move to draw Russian forces into Kherson is clearly one of the great strategic moves of the war. It brought some of the best Russian units into Kherson. And made the Russians thin the line in Kharkiv. For the moment, the UA are pushing back what was probably the 5th most powerful army on earth (behind China, US, India and Korea). Like the Russian Army, these 4 armies are huge standing armies that are designed to fight at Corps level & above.​

11. The UA attacking across a broad front while retaining their own defensive positions. This is not a "all or nothing" attack. In the video above, the Russians are dying from a precision attack at a ferry crossing. The ferry was attacked in the few moments it was docked at the pier. This could only have been achieved with a Ukrainian drone circling above the ferry and if it was a TB2 strike, then that TB2 was circling above the ferry too. This means Ukraine can now fly drones all over Kherson.

12. Russian lines of communication are under active attack — below dead Russians from a destroyed MLRS, and destroyed by small arms fire — this was close and personal.

13. Ukrainian forces in Kharkiv are conducting a significant ground maneuver spanning over 20 km deep and capturing about 400 square kilometers so far. The UA has captured many settlements north of Balakliya. The current offensive is the result of months of studious planning, and strategic patience.

14. One of the Russian military's biggest weaknesses is that its motorized rifle troops cannot do their job. Instead VDV, naval infantry, Wagner, scouts, and spetsnaz are doing it. Russian sources stated on 7 Sept 2022 that the UA has taken Semenivka and that battles are ongoing near Shevchenkove. NASA FIRMS data shows heat anomalies inside Shevchenkove. Russian sources stated on 7 Sept 2022 that the Ukrainian Army has taken Semenivka and that battles are ongoing near Shevchenkove. NASA FIRMS data shows heat anomalies inside Shevchenkove.

15. The UA leadership have demonstrated a deep understating of both the art and science of war. It also shows a shrewd appreciation of the information environment. The articulation of probable enemy objectives, using ‘centre of gravity analysis’ is an important statement of the threat capabilities. It also includes worst case planning. It is difficult not to see the past 6 days, as transformational in morale — they are fighting and gaining territory in a head on fight with defended Russian positions. But I suspect that Ukraine will likely have to pause offensive ops in 3 to 4 weeks.
 
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vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
UKR territory gains are looking more appreciable, from liveuamap.com and Deep State Map live. At the same time the FIRMS mapping for the Kherson region show little activity.
 

vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
As of 2 hours ago on liveuamaps.com it was reported (allegedly) the Ukrainian forces have penetrated upwards of 50km East pf Kharkiv which if the location shown on liveuamaps is accurate puts them just outside of Kupiansk on the Oskil river.

ВЕХА Харьков

On the assumption that this is accurate I would imagine that they have rushed smaller more mobile forces as far forward as they can as quickly as they can to limit or prevent RU forces setting up effective defences too soon making use of gaps in the lines that they have been able to open due to lower troop numbers apperantly present at the moment.

This combined with villagers secured across the Siverkyi Donets river has the very real possibility of making RU presence in Izyum untenable going forward if the can advance on this gains they have made in the last week.

IMO if this current news is accurate and so far the gains they have made in the last week in the east points that way then Russian decision to hold the Kherson bridgehead at all costs could very well be its downfall. Stripping the front of the bulk of its reserves and even some front lines troops to hold a very risky position seems to be opening up a number of opportunities the UKR forces are exploiting to their best of their ability. At this stage with the way its going even if RU forces manage to mantain the bridge head longer then UKR forces can sustain the counter offensive it could very well be a UKR victory in the end with the gains (allegendly) being made in the east.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Have they supplied Ukraine a TB2with 200km cruise missile capability or is that version still to be produced?
I'd have to listen to the discussion again but if I'm not mistaken he merely mentions a new HALE able to be fitted with a AESA and armed with a 200km range cruise missile.

Interestingly he mentions the same European countries which were vocal in criticising Turkey's sale of TB2s to Azerbaijan being all gung go about them being sold to the Ukraine. In addition to the sale of TB2s [the Ukraine will also locally produce it]; Turkey has other areas of defence cooperation; including naval; with the Ukrainians.

It's well know that Turkey has strict controls of what goes in and out the Black Sea via the
Dardanelles but it has also banned any Russian military flights with troops onboard to head to Syria via Turkish airspace. If Russia had invaded the Ukraine and threatened Poland in 2021; Turkey would have played a vital and prominent role because it headed the NATO Deployable Corps

On another note the speaker was very against the S-400 deal and cautioned against it. He also points out that not only was the deal flawed but the sanctions imposed on Turkey was also flawed given the important role Turkey plays within NATO.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Ukrainian troops are inside Balakleya, so far on the western side of town. Encirclement moves around it have so far failed to link up, but attacks are continuing. There are some indications that Russia may be withdrawing from the town.


To me this is a much more dangeours and much more successful offensive by Ukraine. Instead of multi-pronged headbutting with massive casualties, info about which is leaking out into the media, and many incidents were captured on camera, resulting in an eventual capture of a handful of villages and hamlets, here we have a dangerous maneuver that credibly threatens Russian forces with encirclement, while applying front pressure, and appears to be pushing Russian forces out of the objective, namely the town of Balakleya. It remains to be seen how this resolves, and Russian artillery and air is repotedly working to infilct maximum damage, but at this point Russia needs reserves to counter-attack and correct the situation. Alternatively the position will be untenable and Balakleya will have to be surrendered.

EDIT: More footage out of Balakleya. Information is coming in that Russian troops of interior were holding the city, which explains the difficulties they're facing.

 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
10. The Russians deployed in Kherson & Kharkiv are on the defensive. The 6 Sept 2022 Ukrainian North Eastern attack in Kharkiv was likely an opportunistic effort enabled by the redeployment of Russian forces to reinforce Russian positions against the Ukrainian Southern offensive in Kherson Oblast, that started 6 days ago. At some cost to themselves, the Ukrainian Army (UA) are seizing defended territory from the Russian Army whilst whittling down their combat power in these sectors.
(a) It’s almost like symphony of patience and strategy realized. The whole country kept silent watching the ABGs and infantry battalions of this offence form. They saw it being build over months and kept silent. An account from a Russian Channel says that Ukraine massed a “powerful tank fist” with 15 tanks at Balakliya, which led to the breakthrough. They say Russian aviation couldn’t help in time because Ukraine saturated the area with air defenses.​
(b) Any smart military plan gives your enemy multiple options on how they want to die for their country. Ukraine’s Army seems to have applied that concept against Russian forces. It is likely that Ukraine can't sustain this level of ops for a longer than 4 more weeks, as it is burning its theatre reserves of manpower, ammo stockpiles, and hardware.​
(c) The Ukrainian move to draw Russian forces into Kherson is clearly one of the great strategic moves of the war. It brought some of the best Russian units into Kherson. And made the Russians thin the line in Kharkiv. For the moment, the UA are pushing back what was probably the 5th most powerful army on earth (behind China, US, India and Korea). Like the Russian Army, these 4 armies are huge standing armies that are designed to fight at Corps level & above.​
Is it opportunistic? It looks well planned and well executed, much more so then the Kherson offensive, at least to me. I don't think Ukraine drew Russian forces into Kherson necessarily either. I suspect Russia has a hard time moving reserves around, and thus has multiple limited reserve groupings on different fronts. I.e. an attack on Kherson doesn't necessarily involve tapping reserves that are supporting the Kharkov front. However this is just my impression.

13. Ukrainian forces in Kharkiv are conducting a significant ground maneuver spanning over 20 km deep and capturing about 400 square kilometers so far. The UA has captured many settlements north of Balakliya. The current offensive is the result of months of studious planning, and strategic patience.
And south too. There's a second prong of the offensive trying to cut Balakleya off from the south.

14. One of the Russian military's biggest weaknesses is that its motorized rifle troops cannot do their job. Instead VDV, naval infantry, Wagner, scouts, and spetsnaz are doing it. Russian sources stated on 7 Sept 2022 that the UA has taken Semenivka and that battles are ongoing near Shevchenkove. NASA FIRMS data shows heat anomalies inside Shevchenkove. Russian sources stated on 7 Sept 2022 that the Ukrainian Army has taken Semenivka and that battles are ongoing near Shevchenkove. NASA FIRMS data shows heat anomalies inside Shevchenkove.
Even VDV has issues. For motor-rifles the issue is both training and squad size. For the VDV it's mainly squad size.

15. The UA leadership have demonstrated a deep understating of both the art and science of war. It also shows a shrewd appreciation of the information environment. The articulation of probable enemy objectives, using ‘centre of gravity analysis’ is an important statement of the threat capabilities. It also includes worst case planning. It is difficult not to see the past 6 days, as transformational in morale — they are fighting and gaining territory in a head on fight with defended Russian positions. But I suspect that Ukraine will likely have to pause offensive ops in 3 to 4 weeks.
I would say "Ukrainian". Consider how Ukraine has fought up until now, and how they fought in the past. The signature of the same intelligence that planned strikes against Zmeiniy, Moskva criuser, etc. all over this offensive in Kharkov. In my opinion someone far more experienced and skilled is at work here.
 
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Delta204

Active Member
I would say "Ukrainian". Consider how Ukraine has fought up until now, and how they fought in the past. The signature of the same intelligence that planned strikes against Zmeiniy, Moskva criuser, etc. all over this offensive in Kharkov. In my opinion someone far more experienced and skilled is at work here.
We may never know the degree of ISR or likely C4ISR provided by NATO members (primarily from US & UK I would imagine) but it has turned into a massive force multiplier - one that the Russians did not properly account for before the invasion.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
We may never know the degree of ISR or likely C4ISR provided by NATO members (primarily from US & UK I would imagine) but it has turned into a massive force multiplier - one that the Russians did not properly account for before the invasion.
I've come across articles about the US being involved in the planning of operations in Ukraine. Remember Ukraine's attempts to counter-attack at Gulyaypole? They ended disasterously. In Kherson they cost casualties but made some gains, though in my opinion definitely not worth the cost. At Balakleya, they're fight very effectively, have not only gained ground, but have also credibly threatened Russian forces on the operational level. All this without any sign of the massive casualties footage of which came out of the Kherson offensive immediately. In my opinion there is a difference of kind between these offensives.
 

vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
As of abut 8 hours ago form the time of this post, this facebook page claims the commanding general of forces "West" (Lieutenant General Andrei Sychevy) has been captured:


Looking for more official confirmation.
 

vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
Apperantly Balakleya has been liberated Zelenskiy / Official Considering the speed that everything else in thi war has been going at the rate of advance here is I would say top notch.

Russian forces are now starting to defend Kupiansk with reinforcements being rushed in from Russia its self. Раньше всех. Ну почти. Being a key railway hub Even if it doesnt fall if they can prevent its use then Russian units south of it all the way to Lyman will find their logistics impacted.

Starting to wonder if RU forces can even hold now with the forces they have and they speed of UKR advance. They need a large influx of personnel and equipment to stabalize the line but would appear nothing nearby is large enough meaning they would need elements of their new 3rd corps (which would just be throwing untrained units into the fire or units in Kherson that even if they could be spared would not only take time to arrive but would likely have to abandone their equipment in Kherson as no efficient way to get it across the river in short time.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Apperantly Balakleya has been liberated Zelenskiy / Official Considering the speed that everything else in thi war has been going at the rate of advance here is I would say top notch.

Russian forces are now starting to defend Kupiansk with reinforcements being rushed in from Russia its self. Раньше всех. Ну почти. Being a key railway hub Even if it doesnt fall if they can prevent its use then Russian units south of it all the way to Lyman will find their logistics impacted.

Starting to wonder if RU forces can even hold now with the forces they have and they speed of UKR advance. They need a large influx of personnel and equipment to stabalize the line but would appear nothing nearby is large enough meaning they would need elements of their new 3rd corps (which would just be throwing untrained units into the fire or units in Kherson that even if they could be spared would not only take time to arrive but would likely have to abandone their equipment in Kherson as no efficient way to get it across the river in short time.
Exactly. This is a credible threat to the entire Izyum Salient. Whatever reserves Russia was preparing for other things will now have to be committed here to try and salvage the situation, and save the Kupyansk-Izyum line. This is not to say Russia doesn't have reserves, but how ready they are, and how quickly they can be brought to bear is an open question.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Post 1 of 5: Yes we can

Is it opportunistic? It looks well planned and well executed, much more so then the Kherson offensive, at least to me. I don't think Ukraine drew Russian forces into Kherson necessarily either. I suspect Russia has a hard time moving reserves around, and thus has multiple limited reserve groupings on different fronts. I.e. an attack on Kherson doesn't necessarily involve tapping reserves that are supporting the Kharkov front. However this is just my impression.



And south too. There's a second prong of the offensive trying to cut Balakleya off from the south.
1. I have said that at a small unit level (platoon, and company), Ukrainian Army (UA) junior officer leadership is way superior to Russian leadership on the ground.

2. But that is not all there is to success in the battlefield — part of the reason for this success we see in the last 24 hours is also the quality of intelligence. Ukraine has better intelligence on disposition of Russian forces and their sectors — they attacked at the gaps at Balakliya.

3. And Balakliya is an important road & railroad junction connecting key cities (see boxes on satellite map). It has a population of about 28,000. With the amount of Russian forces deployed, it should not be falling or under threat from falling, when under attack by such a small Ukrainian force. There are Russian ammo dumps there, as this city has been using the railroads and roads to ship logistics forward. Russian high command thought their defences there was strong but they are not.

4. What we are seeing at in the fighting at & around Ukrainian city of Balakliya over the last 24 hours, is success of small unit tactics and failure of the Russian company commanders in these defended zones to act as intended. Those "defenses" around Balakliya were actually mixed Russian units, with little coordination between commands. The lack of Russian willingness to fight is a sign of poor morale and more importantly, it shows a lack of communication between adjacent sectors.

5. The Ukrainian force that attacked Balakliya is smaller than even I expected, which means it’s not just the quality of Ukraine’s planning; rather it is the degree of incompetence demonstrated by the Russian Army in deliberate defence — this is incompetence at multiple levels.

6. In the last 24 hours, we see the result of good tactical planning, accurate intelligence of Russian defence sectors, and excellent execution of a deliberate attack by a relatively small Ukrainian armored force that advanced on Balakliya. If you think about this battle in the way I described — Ukraine pushing forward with a small force (when compared to the number of Russian defenders in the immediate area) — it would be accurate to describe this as opportunistic exploit of Russian failure to fight as intended.

7. By May 2022, Ukraine aptly demonstrated to all that Ukraine can do well on the defence. The next question (from then till 9 Sept 2022) was about the ability to conduct an offence:
Q from May: “But what about offence?"​
Ans on 9 Sept 2022: "Yes we can."​
It would appear then that this is an attritional approach.
8. This latest advance on Balakliya addresses this concern of not getting into a stupid battle of attrition and the UA conducting successful manoeuvre warfare quite clearly. A few posts back, someone was trying to argue that it is a battle of attrition — but he has been proven wrong. As I see it there are 2 parts of strategic communications at war:
One, communicating actual success in achieving military objectives — such as the liberation of Balakliya from Russian occupation.​
Two, demonstrating the ability not only to communicate success, but also to address misinformation pumped out by the Russians and successfully troll the enemy (as demonstrated by the issue of the stamp).​
 
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vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
8. This latest advance on Balakliya addresses this concern of not getting into a stupid battle of attrition and the UA conducting successful manoeuvre warfare quite clearly. A few posts back, someone was trying to argue that it is a battle of attrition — but he has been proven wrong. As I see it there are 2 parts of strategic communications at war:
I was arguing that the Kherson front implied an attritional strategy based upon low advance rates. That remains to be seen, but now may be totally overshadowed by the eastern UKR advances.

The whole Bala. situation seemed to develop out of nowhere - and yes, the UKR advances show manoeuvre capability, no argument. Was this part of the grand plan ? It will be interesting to read the post-war accounts on this.
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Post 2 of 5: Yes we can

9. Random video of the effect of machine gun fire on an Ukrainian Land Cruiser after the fight in the Kherson direction. This is why the delivery of the 50 Kirpi vehicles, 20 Bushmasters and other British protected mobility vehicles, like the Wolfhound and Mastiff, will save lives.

10. For those wondering where the next fight will occur, look to Michael Kofman’s posts. Professional. Detailed. Credible.

The whole Bala. situation seemed to develop out of nowhere - and yes, the UKR advances show manoeuvre capability, no argument. Was this part of the grand plan ? It will be interesting to read the post-war accounts on this.
11. The Ukrainians of course planned for the advance to Balakliya — they had accurate intelligence on Russian defensive disposition; but the degree of success (with such limited causalities on own forces), I would think is not predicted. For those who don't know, the 92nd brigade of the UA plays a critical role in the liberation of the Kharkiv region. This is a Kharkiv indigenous brigade fighting for their homes, to drive out the Russian invaders.
(a) After defeat at Kyiv, Putin, Lavrov and their military chiefs cobbled together an alternative theory of victory for Ukraine. They better prioritised their military operations, and eschewed concurrent, multi-front offensives. Despite the courage of Ukraine’s defenders, the Russian Army had until June 2022, the ability to conduct offensive thrusts at a time and place of their choosing. In July 2022, with the introduction of HIMARS, Russian losses in the east, and tactical realignments of Ukraine’s defensive scheme, allowed Ukraine to extract itself from the attrition battle in the east. Concurrently, the Ukrainians began to move forces into Kherson.​
(b) Even Russian Telegram channel echo chambers like Dva Maiora’s says that on 7 Sept 2022 Ukrainian forces took control of Savyntsi on 6 Sept 2022 and Sosnivka and Dementiivka on 7 Sept 2022. Many (though not all) Russian sources concede that Ukrainian forces captured Balakliya, Kharkiv Oblast, on 8 Sept 2022. Geolocated footage posted on 8 Sept 2022 that shows Ukrainian forces posing in front of the entrance sign to Shevchenkove.​
(c) The UA have to guard against a possible Russian counter attack from Izyum; but they were already under constant pressure. The next fight is for Kupyansk; and this is a very important location for both Russians and Ukrainians. Kupyansk is a major railway junction feeding the whole North East direction of the frontline. Looks like the UA intended to envelop Izyum, to trap Russian forces there. The Oskil river east of Izyum makes the pocket vulnerable for Russian forces.​
(d) Just think about the stunning fact that Ukraine’s SAMs have made Russian tactical aviation irrelevant during their attack on Russian defensive lines — the Ukrainians are shooting down Kamov Ka-50s & Sukhoi Su-25s in the fight for Kherson & Kharkiv.​

12. The initiative has shifted from the Russians to the Ukrainians. Savyntsi, Sosnivka, Dementiivka, and Balakliya are deliberate attacks — which means they are planned. And all war planners know that the enemy gets a vote — which means not every UA attack will go to plan or succeed.
 
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Larry_L

Active Member
An interesting article by Ukraine speculating on events in 2023 in which they, for the first time directly state that that the attack on the Crimean air bases was a missile strike. Quote "This was done by a series of successful missile strikes on the enemy's Crimea-based air bases,"

 
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Larry_L

Active Member
With most of the attention on Kherson, Ukraine forces are also allegedly striking deep in other areas. I like to visit this site since the characters on the map are easy to read for an English speaker, and the maps are quite detailed. They also claim to confirm their information. Supposedly Ukraine is moving fast toward the rail junction at Kupyansk.



I now see that this thrust by Ukraine has already been addressed. I guess that confirms the push is real.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
With most of the attention on Kherson, Ukraine forces are also allegedly striking deep in other areas. I like to visit this site since the characters on the map are easy to read for an English speaker, and the maps are quite detailed. They also claim to confirm their information. Supposedly Ukraine is moving fast toward the rail junction at Kupyansk.


I believe this is accurate. Kupyansk it threatened, with Russian forces likely pulling back from Balakleya area, though confirmation is lagging. Russia badly needs reserves here, it appears too many Russian units in the area are essentially police SWAT teams (SOBR), LDNR reservists, National Guard, etc. They have a very hard time standing up to enemy mechanized forces, and cooperate poorly for larger battles. A SOBR can hold a platoon or even a company position, and be quite effective, but two SOBRs, a National Guard unit, some VDV recon, and a motor-rifles unit don't make for good bedfellows.
 
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