Indonesian Aero News

[Sandhi Yudha]

A couple of weeks ago i saw a C-130 landing on CGK and after that taxiing towards GMF. Big chance its this one.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1487557321798856704

Reading this it seems to be heavy maintenance with some elements of modernisation and life extension. Good to know that this work is done on the workhorses of TNI-AU.

 

[Ananda]

GMF AeroAsia on Instagram: "Kunjungan Menteri Pertahanan Republik Indonesia, Prabowo Subianto pada Rabu (26/01) guna meninjau project modernisasi pesawat C130H milik TNI AU di GMF menjadi sorotan kegiatan pekan ini. Industri pertahanan menjadi lini bisnis paling anyar yang tengah digarap oleh GMF dengan membawa misi guna mengembangkan kapabilitas sekaligus menjadi bentuk bakti pada Negeri. Hal ini sejalan dengan cita-cita pemerintah guna mewujudkan kemandirian dalam pemeliharaan dan perawatan alutsista. Semoga ke depannya, GMF akan mampu memberikan kontribusi optimal untuk mendukung industri pertahanan tanah air."

2,696 likes, 35 comments - gmfaeroasia on January 28, 2022: "Kunjungan Menteri Pertahanan Republik Indonesia, Prabowo Subianto pada Rabu (26/01) guna meninjau project modernisasi pesawat C130H milik TNI AU di GMF menjadi sorotan kegiatan pekan ini. Industri pertahanan menjadi lini bisnis...

www.instagram.com

Just add the Instagram for GMF Aeroasia on that matter. Basically not much different from what you already put.

What's the significance in here is the license that LM provide to GMF to do heavy work for C-130. Something that in region already been have by other MRO in Malaysia, Singapore and Australia.

GMF already have capabilities to do that, since they already done it with Boeing and Airbus Airliners. However seems before TNI-AU interaction with domestic MRO not that big, making as business GMF did not want to pursue the licensing work for non civilian airplane. That's seems the present MinDef try to rectify.

 

[ChestnutTree]

GMF already have capabilities to do that, since they already done it with Boeing and Airbus Airliners. However seems before TNI-AU interaction with domestic MRO not that big, making as business GMF did not want to pursue the licensing work for non civilian airplane. That's seems the present MinDef try to rectify.

Well those tiny contracts are still worth millions, with how the TNI works I'm not surprised that they try to shy away from local projects.

On a separate note, a minor tidbit but I do find the TNI-AU's variation of aircraft livery to be a slight eyesore. There's never any consensus on a standard livery with the C-130 fleet.

 

[Ananda]

minor tidbit but I do find the TNI-AU's variation of aircraft livery to be a slight eyesore.

Yes, the irony is when ex RAAF C-130 come they are actually have better livery then TNI-AU ones. Those are painted in Australia. However then TNI-AU repainted again to that awful glossy green livery.

Yes, GMF doesn't want to touch TNI jobs before on the matter of contract payment practice before (talking to some GMF executives before). Seems now they want to involved due better contract arrangements.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

View attachment 48854


Yes, the irony is when ex RAAF C-130 come they are actually have better livery then TNI-AU ones. Those are painted in Australia. However then TNI-AU repainted again to that awful glossy green livery.

Yes, GMF doesn't want to touch TNI jobs before on the matter of contract payment practice before (talking to some GMF executives before). Seems now they want to involved due better contract arrangements.

View attachment 48854


Yes, the irony is when ex RAAF C-130 come they are actually have better livery then TNI-AU ones. Those are painted in Australia. However then TNI-AU repainted again to that awful glossy green livery.

Yes, GMF doesn't want to touch TNI jobs before on the matter of contract payment practice before (talking to some GMF executives before). Seems now they want to involved due better contract arrangements.

There are also a lot of different 'exclusively designed' camouflagepatern uniforms besides the official TNI-ones

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1487934684399120389

Some concept designs from at least 15 years ago or something.
The LS-X looks interesting, probably designed as a Hawk Mk.53/109/209 replacement.
The modified NBell 412 looks more like a child from a AH-1 and AH-64.
But i am happy the genetically manipulated NBO-105 never became reality....its as ugly as an Atlas XH-1.

 

[Ananda]

Prabowo witness co-op between DI and Jet Investment SARL group for marketing and financing CN-235 (and potentially N-219).

Jet Investment Group Sàrl à Genève | Moneyhouse

Jet Investment Group Sàrl à Genève ✓ actif ✓ Fondée 2019 ✓ Direction: Norbert-Max Bläuenstein ✓ Dernière modification: 22.01.2024 ✓

www.moneyhouse.ch

This is a Swiss Investment company, which basically (just like most Investment company in Switzerland) find investment fund to provide financing on certain products worldwide.

This is always a problem with Indonesian strategic Industry like DI/IPTN since Habibie's time. How to provide financing for their products. For certain this can answer some local fanboys that off handedly comment that local Financial need to be push to finance DI. I laughed on that kind of comments for their naive thinking. To Finance a product like aeroplane, you need a financing/investment company that have network on that area. Local Financial Institutions simply do not have that kind of capabilities nor do they have appetite to do that. It's a niche market financing game.

I do believe an European financing company willing to do this, because Airbus Military already give DI acknowledgement to do global marketing for CN-235. Also they want to do it because CN-235 basically still part of Airbus Military portfolio.

This also means DI has to provide more professional time management for CN-235 line. Without that, then no future development for their other products to be finance by those investment companies.

Prabowo's in the interview also talking on supporting DI on current multipurpose airplanes is the priority for Government. Any off set they got when procuring military airplanes, aim to help DI further proficiency on their current line.

This's what I have talk long time ago, any off set doesn't mean has to be related to the items that being procured. However most likely toward developing current line of domestic industry.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Prabowo witness co-op between DI and Jet Investment SARL group for marketing and financing CN-235 (and potentially N-219).

Jet Investment Group Sàrl à Genève | Moneyhouse

Jet Investment Group Sàrl à Genève ✓ actif ✓ Fondée 2019 ✓ Direction: Norbert-Max Bläuenstein ✓ Dernière modification: 22.01.2024 ✓

www.moneyhouse.ch

This is a Swiss Investment company, which basically (just like most Investment company in Switzerland) find investment fund to provide financing on certain products worldwide.

This is always a problem with Indonesian strategic Industry like DI/IPTN since Habibie's time. How to provide financing for their products. For certain this can answer some local fanboys that off handedly comment that local Financial need to be push to finance DI. I laughed on that kind of comments for their naive thinking. To Finance a product like aeroplane, you need a financing/investment company that have network on that area. Local Financial Institutions simply do not have that kind of capabilities nor do they have appetite to do that. It's a niche market financing game.

I do believe an European financing company willing to do this, because Airbus Military already give DI acknowledgement to do global marketing for CN-235. Also they want to do it because CN-235 basically still part of Airbus Military portfolio.

This also means DI has to provide more professional time management for CN-235 line. Without that, then no future development for their other products to be finance by those investment companies.

Prabowo's in the interview also talking on supporting DI on current multipurpose airplanes is the priority for Government. Any off set they got when procuring military airplanes, aim to help DI further proficiency on their current line.

This's what I have talk long time ago, any off set doesn't mean has to be related to the items that being procured. However most likely toward developing current line of domestic industry.

- Its great if 10 CN235 aircrafts will be ordered for the armed forces, so the production line can stay open and TNI will get more transport aircrafts
i wonder if they are for TNI-AL or TNI-AU,
- "CN235-NextG". How "Next-generation" will this new version become? Will it be like the NC212i, which has only some new cockpit instruments and a new autopilot compared to the NC212-400, or is the difference/improvement big enough as a CN235-330/-440?
- "Diperintah Jokowi "..... no comment.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1488784772084088833

 

[Ananda]

Pasarkan CN235 ke Pasar Global, PTDI Gandeng Jet Investment Group

PTDI dan Jet Investment Group SÀRL menyepakati kerja sama bisnis terkait penjualan dan pengembangan pesawat CN235.

www.idxchannel.com

This's more on the market analysis on what the agreement between DI and Jet Investment SARL actually cover on. Thus on the assessment it's clear that what the agreement covering is for DI to develop further the multirole function of CN-235. Make CN-235 more attractive functional packages, thus Jet Investment SARL can also provide better marketing and financing packages. Thus that's the CN-235 NG aim for. Making CN-235 have more flexibility packages.

For me, this is reasonate with snippets that I heard from Finance people in MoF and SOE ministries. No more Investment to any SOE (that's include DI), unless the project provide better return on their existing line.

So existing line of NC-212i, CN-235 and N-219 are the ones that have to be shown capable to return the existing investment already put in them, before anymore other projects investment line can be provided.

In short, make money first, shown profitable line first, before even dream another project. DI has to shown they are profitable aerospace company and not aerospace sink hole as present situation are.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Hopefully he will not demand cooperation/joint production with chinese companies and free Transfer of Technology and IP to them.

But there are no indications that serial production of the N219 has been start.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491059672920752136

Just a 2 day visit....we will see if there will be any contract signed....or not.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490998467585769472

Hopefully all these 7 KT-1B will return undamaged. I often become nervous if TNI-AU uses new aircrafts for stunts and joyflights. We lost three out of four crashed aircrafts because of it.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490948598758277122

 

[Ananda]

Le Rafale de Dassault Aviation atterrit en Indonésie

L'Indonésie a acheté six Rafale. En attendant mieux. La visite mercredi et jeudi de Florence Parly pourrait être l'occasion de compléter la future flotte de Rafale de l'armée de l'air indonésienne.

www.latribune.fr

La Tribune already put article that the first batch of 6 Rafale already been sign on the agreement. Parly schedulle visit tomorrow seems to officialy commence the agreement and potential follow up on other batch or accompanied deals.

Prabowo's already talk in media that MinDef always ask for offset deals on any procurement. Perhaps Parly visit will also officialise what the off set will be.

As expected, the first batch of the Rafale deals using the money that already allocated before for Su-35. So that's it, it's offcial as Indonesia want to avoid problem on CAATSA, the Russian procurement been relocated to French.

Seems the twitter guy got his bonus afterall.

Add:
This's in condition nothing change on Parly visit tomorrow. However seems asside that La Tribune article, Prabowo's also already talk in media that Rafale only need deals related to payment terms. F-15 that still need more negotiations. So the momentum is on Rafale.

If this commencing as planned, then three times really lucky charm for Dasault in Indonesia, After Mirage III/V lost to F-5E, and Mirage 2000 to F-16.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Le Rafale de Dassault Aviation atterrit en Indonésie

L'Indonésie a acheté six Rafale. En attendant mieux. La visite mercredi et jeudi de Florence Parly pourrait être l'occasion de compléter la future flotte de Rafale de l'armée de l'air indonésienne.

www.latribune.fr

La Tribune already put article that the first batch of 6 Rafale already been sign on the agreement. Parly schedulle visit tomorrow seems to officialy commence the agreement and potential follow up on other batch or accompanied deals.

Prabowo's already talk in media that MinDef always ask for offset deals on any procurement. Perhaps Parly visit will also officialise what the off set will be.

As expected, the first batch of the Rafale deals using the money that already allocated before for Su-35. So that's it, it's offcial as Indonesia want to avoid problem on CAATSA, the Russian procurement been relocated to French.

Seems the twitter guy got his bonus afterall.

Add:
This's in condition nothing change on Parly visit tomorrow. However seems asside that La Tribune article, Prabowo's also already talk in media that Rafale only need deals related to payment terms. F-15 that still need more negotiations. So the momentum is on Rafale.

If this commencing as planned, then three times really lucky charm for Dasault in Indonesia, After Mirage III/V lost to F-5E, and Mirage 2000 to F-16.

After all those years of doing nothing (waiting with getting a replacement for the retired F-5s), we are only able to order 6 Rafales, even with the budget for the 11 Su-35 ready to be used. So sad and typical Indonesia, always tiny batches of small amounts, thats why we never can get good deals. And this is also one of the many reasons why Indonesia should leave the idea to buy the F-15, its better to spend the limited funds to order more Rafales (or F-16s).

Well, at least something happen.

 

[Ananda]

Let's see what happens during Parly visit. So far the officials indication from MinDef shown #36 is the total order they are still talking. That's why I speculate the order will be on batches based on availability of financing schedule.

The question remains if after taking on this expensive Frenchie stuff, are MinDef and MoF still can agree on other expensive procurement packages like F-15EX, AEW/ISTAR, etc for TNI-AU. How far allocation that TNI-AU that still can get after Rafale packages on this term?

For me, that's what I'm still doubt that they can go with F-15EX or even F-16V after Rafale. Perhaps 32 refurbished F-16 more in budget, and this on the condition that USD 8bio+ allocation for TNI-AU from original plan of USD 20bio+ total TNI foreign procurement plan for this term, still can be afforded.

Just don't see enough money trails left for F-15EX or even F-16V if they still go with 36 Rafale.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Egypt signed a €5,2 billion contract and Qatar signed a € 6,3 billion ($7,02 billion) contract for 24 Rafales in 2015.

In 2016 India signed a €7,8 billion contract for 36 Rafales.

So yes, i think you are right, the whole $8M budget will be used if Indonesia order directly 36 Rafales. Maybe its better to order 12-16 pieces first, so there will be some billions left over for other acquisitions, like the A330 MRTT, CN235, ground radars and other stuff.

 

[Ananda]

Maybe its better to order 12-16 pieces first, so there will be some billions left over for other acquisitions,

One of the options that I heard from finance people is to divide into 3 batches of 6, 12 and 18. The first batch using Su-35 fund (which actualy come from last term allocation), the second batch using part of 2021-24 (this term allocation), and the third one going to used next term administration allocation.

If they are going to go with this options, then they have to lock the contract and financing term. Just like SBY done is his last term, thus Jokowi's has no option but to finish the payment. However if they don't lock it, then next term administrations can decide to renegotiate, just like Jokowi's done with a few of SBY's defense commitment that has not been lock yet.

So there's a way to do it for long term financing budget. However even with that, it will be hard to lock other contract during this term (for Fighters procurement program) with that allocated ceiling amount from Bapenas. To lock the contract, then you have to prepared all down payment of each batch. If not, the batch that has not been put DP will be treat as an option. Thus has not been lock, and can be subject to renegotiation or cancelation by next administration.

That's why whatever the budget that can be allocated for this term for TNI-AU matter on finding money trails that can be used to lock the contract. Even the overall payment will not come from this term financing budget. USD 8bio+ will be hard pressed to finance all DP/Initial payment for all TNI-AU wish list on this term. Again this's on the condition that the Bapenas ceiling can be accepted by MoF that's going to provide financing.

 

[Ananda]

Kemenhan Teken Kontrak, Indonesia Sah Akuisisi 6 Jet Dassault Rafale

Secara keseluruhan, Indonesia berencana memboyong 42 jet Rafale. Sisa 36 unit Rafale sisanya akan segera menyusul dalam waktu dekat.

nasional.kompas.com

The package is for 42 Rafale. Thus the six actually on top of 36 that's being talk in Paris before. If this's what going to commence, I only think two possibilities:
1. Jokowi's told his CFO to give Prabowo's more money (I don't know if this means some other defense projects being cut),
2. MinDef give up on F-15EX or even F-16V and used all Fighters allocation toward Frenchie.

There's still possibilities for US Fighters tough, if actually Jokowi's agree on more budget on defense allocation. However something must be give. That's the thing that going to be interesting to follow.

Top Prabowo! RI Resmi Borong 6 Jet Tempur Rafale Prancis

Kesepakatan itu merupakan satu dari empat kesepakatan yang diteken dalam pertemuan antara Prabowo Subianto dan Florence Parly di kantor pusat Kemhan RI.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

Just looking on other media on #42 whether this is reporter mistakes.

So the snippets that I got at least right on one thing, this's going to be done in batches. The 36 next batches seems still being negotiate on financing term.

Frenchie win big afterall. Congrats for the Twitter guy on his bonus.

 

[Arji]

Kemenhan Teken Kontrak, Indonesia Sah Akuisisi 6 Jet Dassault Rafale

Secara keseluruhan, Indonesia berencana memboyong 42 jet Rafale. Sisa 36 unit Rafale sisanya akan segera menyusul dalam waktu dekat.

nasional.kompas.com

The package is for 42 Rafale. Thus the six actually on top of 36 that's being talk in Paris before. If this's what going to commence, I only think two possibilities:
1. Jokowi's told his CFO to give Prabowo's more money (I don't know if this means some other defense projects being cut),
2. MinDef give up on F-15EX or even F-16V and used all Fighters allocation toward Frenchie.

There's still possibilities for US Fighters tough, if actually Jokowi's agree on more budget on defense allocation. However something must be give. That's the thing that going to be interesting to follow.

Top Prabowo! RI Resmi Borong 6 Jet Tempur Rafale Prancis

Kesepakatan itu merupakan satu dari empat kesepakatan yang diteken dalam pertemuan antara Prabowo Subianto dan Florence Parly di kantor pusat Kemhan RI.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

Just looking on other media on #42 whether this is reporter mistakes.

So the snippets that I got at least right on one thing, this's going to be done in batches. The 36 next batches seems still being negotiate on financing term.

Frenchie win big afterall. Congrats for the Twitter guy on his bonus.

Florence own tweet said it was 42

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Antara is quite late compared to Kompas and CNBC, but also they say 42 in total.

|"Tentunya akan mengarah pada pembelian dua kapal selam kelas Scorpene dengan AIP beserta persenjataan dan suku cadang yang dibutuhkan termasuk latihan," kata Prabowo.

Selain itu, kerja sama antara Dassault dan PT DI untuk "maintenance", "repair", dan "overhaul" pesawat-pesawat Prancis di Indonesia, seperti Rafale, Helikopter Caracal, dan lainnya, termasuk MoU kerja sama di bidang telekomunikasi antara PT LEN dan Thales Group serta kerja sama pembuatan amunisi kaliber besar antara PT Pindad dan Nexter Munition.

"Kerja sama PT Pindad untuk 'manufacturing' amunisi guna keperluan persenjataan darat dan amunisi kaliber besar," kata Prabowo."|

https://m.antaranews.com/berita/2695809/kemhan-lakukan-kontrak-pembelian-enam-pesawat-dassault-rafale?utm_source=antaranews&utm_medium=mobile&utm_campaign=berita_pilihan

But confusion about the amount is understandable, even Scramble thought it was 6+30.

Indonesia orders first six Rafales

Indonesia orders first six Rafales In February and June 2021, Scramble Magazine has been reporting on the new fighter acquisition of the Tentara Nasional Indonesia - Angkatan Udara...

www.scramble.nl

1. So besides this Rafale contract, many other programs between Dassault, DCNS, Eurocopter, GIAT with Indonesian companies are coupled with it.

2. Its quite certain now that Indonesia will get the Scorpène with AIP variant, so the 70 meter long, 1870 ton AM-2000. And not the larger S-BR variant without AIP.

3. @Ananda, you talk too much about that idiot on Twitter.
3A. These contracts are not signed thanks to him (you really overestimate his influence).
3B. It would be stupid to not order French products, only in order to punish him for his nonsense.

 

[Ananda]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491665111676772354

Yes just like Arji, just check Parly Tweet. #42 is confirmed by Frenchie. Parly put a lot off tweet on similar times. This's big win for Frenchie after all on overall packages. Rafale, Scorpene, Nexter, and Thales satellites.

 

[Ananda]

you talk too much about that idiot on Twitter.
3A. These contracts are not signed thanks to him (you really overestimate his influence).

My reference to him actually aim toward the Sales Lobby in Political circles. The Twitter guy just one of the public face from that Lobby.

I don't have problem if we go with Frenchie. Just remind that Frenchie stuff is more expensive both to procure and maintain against US stuff. Are we prepared for operating that? Just hoping that all the calculation on maintaining them already been calculated.

#42 can provide 3 sq (16+16+10) the last squadron perhaps can be consist more on double seaters as Conversion Squadron. The last time we bought 40 fighters was for Hawk 200/100. So as strategy, this could be shown a shift on operating environment.

Few years back I also talk in one of Indonesian threads that going to French can be middle ground from pro US and pro Russia/China factions. French also is the one of Western supplier that return to TNI relative faster then other Western suppliers, after East Timor mess up.

I'm just cynical toward French Sales lobby that trashing their competitors in media, but avoiding the issue on how more expensive Frenchie stuff to maintain relative to others (except Russian perhaps). Frenchie active global sales also related toward their strategy to provide Economics of scale of their defense assets.

So, just prepared with more expensive budget to maintain them.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia purchases the Rafale - Press kits

In the presence of the French Minister of the Armed Forces and the Indonesian Minister of Defence, the Chairman and CEO of Dassault Aviation, Eric Trappier, and the Air Vice Marshal Yusuf Jauhari, Head of Defence Facilities Agency of the Indonesian Ministry of Defence, signed the contract for...

www.dassault-aviation.com

Dasault talk that the 42 order is for latest variance. Thus it is F4. This can cost at least USD 10 bio overall. Even with financing strecth toward 2 administrations (this term and next one), I just don't see even next administration can afford other MRCA project.

This what we in Indonesia call 'sudah tanggung basah' or already drawn anyway. Thus better go all out to build Industrial Infrastructure to support them. The resources will not be enough to support two kind of MRCA at least for a decade. So better prepared DI to build infrastructure for heavy MRO, provide fast moving parts, and involve in further upgrade projects only for Rafale.

Even French can not afford to support two kind of MRCA at one time effectively.