Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
As far as I know Canada only had the contract to do the upgrades not general maintenance...
Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
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Considering the cost and time issues .... I agree .... this seems odd. Easy to say that without access to the reasons for cost overruns or what was agreed in the contract in respect of who does what. Good to see her close to being back in service.
post script ... thanks Nighthawk. I do have some reservations on why someone would choose this path given the scope f the work.. but local content is a real political issue
And being fully operational may have to have slipped into later in 2022 rather than late 2021 unless this reporter is drawing a long bow:
From the bottom of this article about crew in Canada contracting COVID
Stuff
i.stuff.co.nz
Wouldn't really consider painting a refit though tbh and to be fair I think we've given the Canucks quite enough taxpayer coin all things considered. If any work can be done in country to the required standard then it should be done in country, that's true VFM.
I agree entirely but I understood there was further work completed in addition to the painting.
It’s unusual to dock a ship just for painting the ship side, the underwater paint job surely was completed in Canada given the scope of work.
Really 'War making" - can't the press get their terminology right. Ships don't make war on their own - it takes a politician to reach that level. On the bright side given the comments by the Minister of Finance it would appear some things in Defence won't make the suggested cuts. At an operational level sending Te Kaha to Exercise Starfish will be an excellent opportunity to shake the some of cobwebs out due to lack of operational sea time over the last few years, and train new personnel up on frigate operations. It will be interesting to see if the CIWS is reinstalled or fitted to HMNZS Aotearoa for the deployment.
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
hahah you funny... Oh wait you being serious... LOL
I very much doubt it... But would like to be proved wrong
According to Defense News, the NZ MoD have issued an Request for Information (RFI) to industry on the Southern Ocean Patrol Vessel (SOPV). Link here. Some details have emerged:
The VARD 9-203 design, 13000t, currently being built in Chile as 'Antarctica-1', would seem to be pretty close to those specifications. The VARD 7-100 ICE, 5800t, (currently being built in Canada as the Harry deWolf class) might be struggling to meet the aforementioned crew complement & range requirements. I hope that we get ourselves sufficiently organized to join a warm production line - otherwise it will cost more than it needs to. Interesting that one of the roles highlighted is resupply to the sub-Antarctic islands (eg. the Auckland Islands & presumably Campbell Island). How does HMNZS 'Perseverance' sound (named after the inlet at Campbell Island)?
From the SOPV document the MoD released in late 2019, the detailed business case is supposedly going before Cabinet for approval some time this year.
The VARD 9-203 design, 13000t, currently being built in Chile as 'Antarctica-1', would seem to be pretty close to those specifications. The VARD 7-100 ICE, 5800t, (currently being built in Canada as the Harry deWolf class) might be struggling to meet the aforementioned crew complement & range requirements. I hope that we get ourselves sufficiently organized to join a warm production line - otherwise it will cost more than it needs to. Interesting that one of the roles highlighted is resupply to the sub-Antarctic islands (eg. the Auckland Islands & presumably Campbell Island). How does HMNZS 'Perseverance' sound (named after the inlet at Campbell Island)?
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
I guess warm production line is dependent on when NZ will actually orders a vessel. I assume Chile is only building one ship so the Irving production line will be in operation longer. If the government procrastinates, Irving might be be in a more favourable position. However, if the extra size and additional 6,000 ton displacement is necessary then tendering to various yards seems likely.
Yes, a version of the Chilean vessel looks like a perfect fit. What's the budget? The Chilean vessel costs US $217m.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Maybe to big, the RFI anticipates the ship will be 295-373ft(89-113m) at 410ft(124m) it is well outside that. The De Wolfe class at 339ft(103m) sits smack bang in the middle. Cost wise, will probably come down to how much Militarisation will go into it, will it get a decent CMS? A main Gun in the 25-40mm class?Yes, a version of the Chilean vessel looks like a perfect fit. What's the budget? The Chilean vessel costs US $217m.
Vessel PDF
Just to dispel any confusion, here are the specifications for the Chilean vessel from Vard themselves:
MAIN PARTICULARS
Length overall 111.0 m 364’-2”
Length waterline 102.4 m 335’-11”
Breadth moulded 21.0 m 68’-11”
Depth main deck 10.6 m 34’-9”
Design draft 7.2 m 23’-7”
PERFORMANCE
Propulsion power 2 x 4,500 kW 2 x 6,034 hp
Max Speed 3.0 knots, 1.0m ice, 16.0 knots, Open Water
Range 14,000 nm
Endurance 60 days
Vessel PDF
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John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Actually the article first mentions a length of 125 meters with a 13,000 ton displacement then further along provides specifications of 111 meters for the length with a 21 meter beam and 7 meter draft. Assuming the 111 meter is correct, can an extra 7 meters along with an extra 2 meters in the beam account for an additional 7,000 tons in displacement compared to the Dewolf?
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Here's your answer to the degree of straight from the DCP: "...Towards these ends this Defence Capability Plan 2019 includes the delivery of a dedicated Southern Ocean Patrol Vessel. The capabilities of this vessel will be primarily for use towards supporting other agencies in the Southern Ocean and around New Zealand. Built to commercial specifications, the vessel will have minimal specialist military capabilities."
The other thing I've mentioned on these pages a few times before... nowhere does the requirements suggest an ice-breaker is required... if it were I'm sure there would've been specific mention of that in the DCP... it only talks about patrol & civil-agency support.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Thanks for clearing that up
Actually, both are powered by twin 6000HP electric engines. A friend of mine who was involved in the design of Harry Dewolf with the RCN believes the Chilean propulsion system and "some elements" of the hull are identical to the AOPS. Same design house, so that makes sense.
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Perhaps the version being built for the Canadian Coast Guard? It is a "decontented" version, and will supposedly have more accommodation for scientific staff, and be considerably less expensive. There is no degradation of capabilities in either hull design or propulsion systems, however. All the cost savings are coming from deleting the military kit (CMS, guns, radar, IFF, etc...). With the assembly line at Irving running "too efficiently" (ahead of schedule), it's possible that a third ship could be slotted in after the first two Coast Guard versions are built. Irving is reputedly looking for a way to fill a potential 9-12 month gap between the last of the AOPS hulls and the start of the CSC, so they might be incentivized to offer a "good deal". I don't know about the range, however, but CCG ships typically have ranges in the 5 digits, so there may be some accommodation on board for additional bunkerage. They are being quite extensively modified "to meet CCG's operational requirements": Arctic and offshore patrol ships—Canadian Coast Guard - Large vessel shipbuilding projects – Shipbuilding projects to equip the Royal Canadian Navy and the Canadian Coast Guard – National Shipbuilding Strategy – Sea – Defence and marine procurement – Buying and Selling – PSPC. They also have the advantage of incorporating fin stabilizers for rough weather, which is an RFI requirement, and these are in the water and proving themselves to be quite capable in trials: HMCS Harry DeWolf: exceeding expectations in first encounter with sea ice in Canada's North
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