New Coronavirus threat

[Ananda]

The Pfizer vaccine also doesn't lend itself to use in 3rd world or hot climate countries or long travels, as it must remain at -70 degrees C while being stored. This is going to be tricky to roll out even in 1st world countries

I got information from Indonesian new health Minister. He's an ex Banker, thus he's still talking to our group from time to time. Pfizer is the preferred vaccine by Indonesian government for people above 60 or people with accompany condition like diabetic, heart or lung problems. However since it need to be stores in deep freezers, then they (the health ministry) still try to solve the problem to distribute them to area outside provincial cities or cities at same class. So far the hospitals up to C class has facilities to handle the storage of Pfizer or other RNA type vaccine. However it will create problem if the vaccine has to send to rural areas.

That's why for wide distribution to rural and outlying area, they're still relying to non RNA type vaccine like Sinovac and Astra Zeneca.

Moderna CEO says the world will have to live with Covid 'forever'

"We are going to live with this virus, we think, forever," he said during a panel discussion at the JPMorgan Healthcare Conference.

www.cnbc.com

This is what people must understand, this type of corona virus like influenza will not disappeared. How the vaccination do is to prevent as much as possible the severe hospitalisation cases.

I remembered few years ago, I went to US during flu season. My doctor already warned me to get flu shot before going, as that period (in winter), is during flu season. I don't take it, as I said to my self, is only flu no worries. Turn out I got problematic flu strains in New York. Need hospitalisation for three days.
The doctor there reinstated what my doctor in Jakarta told me. Since I come from outside US better prepared with Flu shots, as the Influenza strains in US bit different with Influenza strains in tropics that my body already used to.

So in future, there will be COVID shoot that we will needed to take for traveling toward some area, just like Flu shoot needed now. Influenza kill tens of thousands people each year in North America alone. This COVID will stay, and I suspect some fatalities will still happen from COVID in future, just like Influenza did. What the vaccine needed is to give our bodies immune system help to prevent severe cases. Just like Influenza, it will never disappeared. Our bodies with the help of vaccine, hopefully will learn to adapt.

 

[swerve]

....
To be fair, I don't think China stuffed up the CoronaVac. Traditional vaccine methods like CoronaVac and the Oxford-Astrazeneca vax are just less effective with this particular virus. ...

I don't think you can call a vaccine made by modifying an existing virus from another species to make it harmless & then adding new DNA to it to stimulate the immune system to recognise another virus "traditional". That's what the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is.

 

[StingrayOZ]

The mRNA vaccines needs -70C storage, so a two stage freezer operating in an airconditioned room. In transport, normal refrigerated transport isn't enough and should be packed with dry ice. This basically requires any distribution point to have dry ice facilities. Can work in the US or Europe, but beyond that is going to be challenging.

The COVID vaccine needs to be kept at Antarctic temperatures, and transported all over the world

After the elation of the first approval of a COVID-19 vaccine comes the realisation that making and testing the vaccine is only the beginning. The next job is figuring out how to distribute hundreds of millions of doses across the world.

www.abc.net.au

Why Does Pfizer's COVID-19 Vaccine Need To Be Kept Colder Than Antarctica?

One of the two leading vaccine candidates requires deep, deep freezing. Here's how communities are working to solve for this and how the new Moderna vaccine could help.

www.npr.org

The pfizer vaccine has come under criticism due to its instability.

The monderna vaccine only requires -20c, its based around a more stable molecule even though its also a mRNA vaccine. -20 is far more doable, and single stage freezers will generally handle that, as will portable cold boxes. It shows that not all mRNA are so delicate.

How mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna work, why they’re a breakthrough and why they need to be kept so cold

There are two new COVID-19 vaccines that appear to be more than 90% effective. But what are these vaccines, and how are they different from those used previously?

theconversation.com

I don't think you can call a vaccine made by modifying an existing virus from another species to make it harmless & then adding new DNA to it to stimulate the immune system to recognise another virus "traditional". That's what the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is.

Traditional in the sense of growing vaccines in eggs. mRNA developed from cellular synthesis is a whole different ball game. I don't want to understate what Oxford-AstraZeneca did, what they did is amazing, particularly in the time they had. But its like Michael Angelo doing art with Crayola crayons.

Accelerating flu protection

Can the latest techniques speed up the dangerously slow production of flu vaccines?

www.nature.com

mRNA is just more nimble, you will develop a vaccine faster because you don't have to optimize the egg growing virus production and you will have greater flexibility and not be bottlenecked by egg production. (also think about the vulnerability with bird flu - kill chickens - chickens lay eggs - no eggs - no vaccine).

Rather than stock piling pre made egg based vaccines, cellular can respond and produce to threats much faster.
The US had this problem with their Swine flu vaccine, which was soon out of date and provided no protection against later variants, so they had to start stockpiling for the new variant as well as the old one. This soon becomes unmanageable, because viruses keep changing.

Which is why the Australian government has just announced a $1.2B CSL facility near the airport in Melbourne. We need this capability, the game has moved on and we need to keep up with it.

UK has just stopped travel from South America, due to concerns about a new strain coming from there.

Air travel from South American countries banned amid fears of new Brazil coronavirus variant

Scientists fear mutations are triggering rapid increase in cases where infections were already very high

www.independent.co.uk

 

[John Fedup]

Probably should have stopped international long ago. There are now so many large pools of infection that increased occurrences of mutations will be unavoidable now. Hopefully more deadly strains don’t emerge. Only a massive worldwide vaccination effort will reduce the number of new strains.

 

[Maximuswarrior]

As predicted earlier. 2021 is another lost year with a lot of trial and error of vaccines produced in a hurry. It remains to be seen how effective these vaccines really are. How long they can protect and against which variants etc. Nothing is certain at the moment.

 

[StingrayOZ]

It seems unlikely that these vaccines will offer permanent immunity.

Moderna's 3-month data raise hopes for COVID-19 vaccine durability

Antibody levels stayed elevated in the 90 days after people received the second dose of Moderna’s COVID-19 vaccine, raising hopes that the prophylactic can provide protection for one year. | Antibody levels stayed elevated in the 90 days after people received the second dose of Moderna’s...

www.fiercebiotech.com

Pfizer vaccine final results: it’s highly protective – but how long for?

We still need to know exactly what part of the immune response offers protection – and how strong it needs to be to remain protective.

theconversation.com

The rate of mutation is also key, with 100 million with the virus, it seems highly likely that new strains will develop, and vaccines are unlikely to remain effective for long periods. Also the deaths in Norway have governments looking at the vaccine and its roll out.

 

[John Fedup]

This link suggests a rather grim picture about COVID recovery. Almost 1/3 of recovered patients end up back in hospital within 140 days. Of this returning number, 1 in 8 die. The median age is 65.

Study: Third of Coronavirus Patients Readmitted to Hospitals in Five Months

The research, which was published on a pre-print server but has yet to be peer-reviewed, discovered that out of 47,780 people discharged from the hospital, 29.4 percent were readmitted within a span of 140 days. Of the total, 12.3 percent of the patients ended up losing their lives.

nationalinterest.org

 

[John Fedup]

Sometimes you have to wonder. Earlier there was a report about two people who tested positive for the UK variant of COVID. They falsely claimed they had not been in contact with any foreign travellers. Now it is reported one person is a doctor and the other may be a paramedic. It will interesting to see if the doctor’s license is revoked.

Ontario doctor and her husband contracted new COVID-19 variant. Now they’re charged

The couple in December told public health they had no contact with travellers but that turned out to be false

ottawacitizen.com

 

[kato]

Sometimes you have to wonder. Earlier there was a report about two people who tested positive for the UK variant of COVID. They falsely claimed they had not been in contact with any foreign travellers. Now it is reported one person is a doctor and the other may be a paramedic. It will interesting to see if the doctor’s license is revoked.

Par for the course.

The last outbreak of smallpox in my city in 1958 was brought in by a doctor who despite multiple recommendations from colleagues had not gotten vaccinated before his trip to India due to being afraid of possible complications. After his trip, besides infecting his maid he also continued working, claiming he didn't have smallpox even when he was showing symptoms. The hospital he worked at finally had to be quarantined with a police cordon - with 500 people inside. 27,000 not-yet-vaccinated people in the city got vaccinations within two weeks. He was later convicted for two counts of involuntary manslaughter and fifteen counts of involuntary battery.

 

[John Fedup]

This is a very long article discussing the debate over COVID’s origins. Considering the vested interest of various parties, it is not surprising that groups of well funded researchers benefiting from research into emerging viral threats and the Chinese government would shoot down theories about a lab accident. Recombinant genetic manipulation of viruses for gain of function studies...WTF could possibly go wrong?

I read enough of this article to give me serious doubts about the natural origin of COVID-19 and grave concerns about some of the research going on in level 3 and 4 containment labs.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html

 

[RoyZZConnor]

This is a very long article discussing the debate over COVID’s origins. Considering the vested interest of various parties, it is not surprising that groups of well funded researchers benefiting from research into emerging viral threats and the Chinese government would shoot down theories about a lab accident. Recombinant genetic manipulation of viruses for gain of function studies...WTF could possibly go wrong?

I read enough of this article to give me serious doubts about the natural origin of COVID-19 and grave concerns about some of the research going on in level 3 and 4 containment labs.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html

Western people are obsessed with the single origin theory. Such as. Single origin of mankind in Africa. Single origin of universe with a big bang. Single origin of COVID-19 in China. Single origin of this. Single origin of that. We Chinese people do not believe in single origin. It is highly likely COVID-19 originated in many countries over a number of years considering how many variants it has.

 

[John Fedup]

Western people are obsessed with the single origin theory. Such as. Single origin of mankind in Africa. Single origin of universe with a big bang. Single origin of COVID-19 in China. Single origin of this. Single origin of that. We Chinese people do not believe in single origin. It is highly likely COVID-19 originated in many countries over a number of years considering how many variants it has.

I suggest you go troll on your favourite CCP sites. Clearly the article is beyond you.

 

[ngatimozart]

Western people are obsessed with the single origin theory. Such as. Single origin of mankind in Africa. Single origin of universe with a big bang. Single origin of COVID-19 in China. Single origin of this. Single origin of that. We Chinese people do not believe in single origin. It is highly likely COVID-19 originated in many countries over a number of years considering how many variants it has.

Then you don't understand science and are just showing your ignorance. AFAIK the CCP line on science is very strong. I believe it is also a part of Xi Jinping thought which you should be conversant on by now.

 

[John Fedup]

Well it appears vaccine nationalism is further along, Moderna is reducing supply to Canada with no explanation provided. An explanation isn’t really required, you look after your own first. Canada, as one of the few countries seriously affected by SARS almost 20 years ago had a red fag to address vaccine production in Canada. SFA was done, our pollies probably thought it was an option DND expense.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-19-vaccine-deliveries-1.5900853

 

[ngatimozart]

An interesting article from Foreign Policy discussing the idea that paranoid island nations have done well coping with the COVID-19 pandemic. It seems that my own country, NZ along with Australia & Singapore are paranoid. Not sure how to take that

Islands of Immunity

Why paranoid island states have done the best when it comes to fighting COVID-19.

foreignpolicy.com

 

[Ananda]

Paranoid is good thing during this pandemic, this will trigger early on sense of crisis. Islands will not help that situation if sense of crisis did not trigger early on. Don't have to see UK and Ireland, that sprawling Archipelago north of Australia is the proof of inept reaction from combination lack of crisis and simply denial for the first three months of 2020. It's also combine with Population that half of them still think COVID 19 is part of Business conspiracies.

Jokowi's claim already secured 420 million vaccine doses. However he admitted that the time table when the most of the vaccines come, still need to be fight on. However if I talk with Health Professional from Doctors to Hospital administrator, how we're going to vaccinate population outside Big Metropolitan areas. They simply said, we'll see that after the Vaccines available.

420 Mio doses in paper will be enough to vaccinate 190 - 200 Mio population as targeted. How to do it, seems still many officials avoid talking it in public.

 

[aviation_enthus]

An interesting article from Foreign Policy discussing the idea that paranoid island nations have done well coping with the COVID-19 pandemic. It seems that my own country, NZ along with Australia & Singapore are paranoid. Not sure how to take that

A good article. At least providing a good round up of the various island nation’s fairing reasonably well during COVID.

However this article highlights one of the huge issues I have with Australian media/government in particular, the obsessive comparisons with “UK and USA”.

“The alternative to the rules for your benefit is..... USA/UK”

Reality is, the ONLY countries that Australia should be comparing itself to is all the ones listed in that article. Especially when it comes to the international border and allowing citizens access to their own country, Australia doesn’t have to look far to find better options (NZ for starters).

 

[spoz]

Why? Australia’s response has been a pretty good one so far. 1.15% of the population have have caught it, and of those that have 3% have died. Too many of course but far better than it could have been. Take out Victoria, and it has been shading on excellent; and even the Vics are doing better than most of the rest of the world.

 

[Todjaeger]

Why? Australia’s response has been a pretty good one so far. 1.15% of the population have have caught it, and of those that have 3% have died. Too many of course but far better than it could have been. Take out Victoria, and it has been shading on excellent; and even the Vics are doing better than most of the rest of the world.

I agree. Here is an "interesting" set of statistics for people to consider, and then compare responses to. I currently reside in a US state with a population of ~5.1 mil. people. Per data from the state department responsible for public health, as of 23:59 20 Feb. 2021 there have been 437,018 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the state, another 68,571 probable cases, with 7,417 confirmed deaths and 915 probable deaths.

Now for some comparison. Australia is ~5x the population of the state I live in, yet the much smaller population of the state has/had 15x the number of cases. That suggests, strongly, that steps take in Australia to contain or mitigate risk of viral spread has been more effective, to the tune of an order of magnitude, than steps taken in the US.

Side note: My info suggests that ~29k Australians have or have had COVID-19, which would be more like 0.115% of the population.

 

[ngatimozart]

I agree. Here is an "interesting" set of statistics for people to consider, and then compare responses to. I currently reside in a US state with a population of ~5.1 mil. people. Per data from the state department responsible for public health, as of 23:59 20 Feb. 2021 there have been 437,018 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the state, another 68,571 probable cases, with 7,417 confirmed deaths and 915 probable deaths.

Now for some comparison. Australia is ~5x the population of the state I live in, yet the much smaller population of the state has/had 15x the number of cases. That suggests, strongly, that steps take in Australia to contain or mitigate risk of viral spread has been more effective, to the tune of an order of magnitude, than steps taken in the US.

Side note: My info suggests that ~29k Australians have or have had COVID-19, which would be more like 0.115% of the population.

The population of NZ is 5 million. We have had 2331 confirmed cases and 26 deaths. There is 1 new community case today, however that person was already in self isolation at home and is part of the recent cluster.

COVID-19: Current cases – Health New Zealand | Te Whatu Ora

Read the latest information about confirmed and probable cases of COVID-19 in New Zealand.

www.health.govt.nz