PRC Peoples Liberation Army Navy

[ngatimozart]

Read up on this thread, just wanted to warn people to take anything that Minnie Chan writes with a massive grain of salt... She has nebulous "sources" and constantly makes outlandish and inconsistent claims, see this post:

China steps up shipbuilding with two more aircraft carriers under way

As China aims to equal US naval strength in the Pacific, its first domestically developed carrier begins final assembly process.

www.scmp.com

Where 1 year after PLAN cuts carrier building to 4 they suddenly decide to build 6...

Welcome to the forum @rr9797 We'll take note of your comments regarding Minnie Chan. However it's unlikely she would name her sources because it probably would be a death sentence for them at worst or a long time in a re-education camp at best. Regarding the claims made in the article, they are not outlandish and are in line with what is already known of suspected about PLAN carrier plans.

I will however make one comment on the reliability of the SCMP as a source. Up until the illegal imposition of the new security law on Hong Kong by the PRC, the SCMP had been regarded as a reliable source. However now that the security law has been imposed, it can no longer be regarded as a reliable source because it is now subject to censorship and sanctions from Beijing and will be required to toe the party line. It has lost its editorial independence and is now shackled by the CCP and the state.

 

[ngatimozart]

The PLAN's first Type 075 LHD has started its sea trials today. Apparently it is larger than the RAN Canberra class LHD with rumours having it at about 36,000 tonnes. Not good seamanship to be dragging your anchors through the water.

China’s First Type 075 Landing Helicopter Dock Started Sea Trials - Naval News

At last! Photos and videos by Chinese ships potters show that China's first amphibious assault ship, a Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) known as Type 075 has finally started sea trials. The vessel set sails today at around 1:30PM local time departing its dock at the Hudong Zhonghua Shipyard in...

www.navalnews.com

 

[John Fedup]

This article describes the possible take aways by the PLAN from the Crozier/USS TR/COVID affair. As per other USN “issues”, one can not help but think China may well feel emboldened to pursue more ambitious desires.

The Crozier Affair through Chinese Eyes

The outbreak of COVID-19 on board the USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71) is behind the Navy now, but the Chinese will continue to analyze what it means.

www.usni.org

 

[ASSAIL]

The PLAN's first Type 075 LHD has started its sea trials today. Apparently it is larger than the RAN Canberra class LHD with rumours having it at about 36,000 tonnes. Not good seamanship to be dragging your anchors through the water.

China’s First Type 075 Landing Helicopter Dock Started Sea Trials - Naval News

At last! Photos and videos by Chinese ships potters show that China's first amphibious assault ship, a Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) known as Type 075 has finally started sea trials. The vessel set sails today at around 1:30PM local time departing its dock at the Hudong Zhonghua Shipyard in...

www.navalnews.com

View attachment 47555

Having your anchors “a cock bill” or easing the anchors down the hawse pipe and hanging on the Blake slip is a commendable precaution at the beginning of a Sea Trial.
Both anchors are ready for “letting go” should propulsion machinery or steering fail, both because if one anchor fails to run the other can be let go in an instant.

 

[ngatimozart]

Having your anchors “a cock bill” or easing the anchors down the hawse pipe and hanging on the Blake slip is a commendable precaution at the beginning of a Sea Trial.
Both anchors are ready for “letting go” should propulsion machinery or steering fail, both because if one anchor fails to run the other can be let go in an instant.

Yep I know that. Been there done that and stood by ready to bang the Blake slip with a hammer. But having the anchors eased so far down?

 

[ASSAIL]

Yep I know that. Been there done that and stood by ready to bang the Blake slip with a hammer. But having the anchors eased so far down?

It would depend on the cable gear layout on the focsl.

 

[alexsa]

It would depend on the cable gear layout on the focsl.

It could just be optics but she does appear to be down by the head and deep. Interesting for a sea trial where you would not expect the vessel to be at full load.

Again looking at what appear to be ventilator openings and the quarter deck .... the freeboard deck appears relatively low for such a high sided vessel. Again this could simply be the perspective of the image.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Interesting ship.

I see the elevator lifts are in a similar configuration to the JC1/Canberra. While quoted as being much bigger than these ships, seems similar length and width but a bit more boxy dimensions and many protrusions.

It seems very front loaded in the above picture, previously pictures in construction showed more normal appearance, I wonder if they were just messing around with its ballasts systems.

 

[t68]

Looks like the PLA-N mistimed this sub entrance to it underground sub pen

Satellite photos appear to show Chinese submarine using underground base

www.9news.com.au

What you can do when you don’t have to justify the defence budget to parliamentary oversight

 

[Ananda]

What you can do when you don’t have to justify the defence budget to parliamentary oversight

I believe PLA still has budgetary oversight body that supervise their budget appropriation. It's just they have "no" opposition that's going to scrutinized them.

 

[John Fedup]

Some preliminary information about a future naval AEW plane for the PLAN. It appears to be similar to the USN Hawkeye. Probably an asset for China’s future CATOBAR carriers as opposed to their current ski ramp carriers.

First Image Of China’s New Carrier-Based AEW Plane

The prototype KJ-600 has been spotted in satellite imagery of an airfield in central China. It looks remarkably like the U.S. Navy’s E-2C Hawkeye. It is a major development and capability leap for the Chinese Navy.

www.forbes.com

 

[Ananda]

It'll be interesting to see how the Chinese will modified it to be compatible for Carrier even Catobar usages. That thing based on Y-7 which based to AN-24. That's heavier than CN-235, which it self won't be compatible for Carrier used.

The Chinese need to reduce much of airframe structural weight, while in same time has to strengthen undercarriage which will add weight. Not an easy thing to do.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

It'll be interesting to see how the Chinese will modified it to be compatible for Carrier even Catobar usages. That thing based on Y-7 which based to AN-24. That's heavier than CN-235, which it self won't be compatible for Carrier used.

The Chinese need to reduce much of airframe structural weight, while in same time has to strengthen undercarriage which will add weight. Not an easy thing to do.

Do you really think the Xian KJ-600 is based on the Y-7 (An-24 clone)? Looking to Wikipedia, the dimensions are completely different. I have the feeling it is just impossible to modify an aircraft like the Y-7 into a carrier capable AEW aircraft. The whole structure is not build for operations on sea.

The Grumman C-2 and E-2 are specially designed from the beginning for operation on aircraft carriers.

So i think they just start from scratch. (Indeed with maybe some An-24 DNA and 'inspired by' E-2 technology gathered by their intelligence services.)

 

[Ananda]

Well if we see the images online, I still see strong Y-7/AN-24 influence. I don't want to bring those images from Chinese forums or Weibo's..those are Fan Boys rendering. It's logical that the Chinese will based on a design they're allready mastered.

Off course the Chinese will continue to develop the design to make it more compact and weight acceptable for carrier operation. That's why I said it will be interesting how they are going to achieve that. I'm sure in the end it will turn out different aircraft than Y-7/AN-24 which are based. However so far Chinese has not provided detail picture of KJ-600, shown they're still working on that.

Just like DI/LAPAN build N-219 which is clearly shown based off NC-212. However the Chinese will have to go much farther to achieve carrier acceptable aircraft from Y-7 based.

 

[ngatimozart]

I wouldn't necessarily discount such an aircraft being carrier capable. It depends upon how capable their EMALS will be and if it's within the parameters of that it's not a problem. Of course the Chinese aren't very transparent about their military programs so we don't really know what they are doing and where they are at.

 

[Ananda]

I think they'll in the end come out with something that's going to be acceptable for Catobar operation. I suspect they're going to workout on wings design and lighter material on upper structural, in order to compensate increase weight on undercarriage due to strengthening for carrier operation.

They still have time, as their CATOBAR carrier it self is not ready yet. And you're right, depend on their EMALS capabilities, it will determine how big the Aircrafts in their CATOBAR carrier can support. If they're still using J-15 on their CATOBAR carriers, then they have to produce strong EMALS considering J-15 it self already big and heavy fighter to begin with.

 

[ngatimozart]

The other thing is that the article presumes that the radar dome is a rotating one because of the black segment. For all we know it could actually be three fixed AESA radar modules with 120° facings. One segment has been painted black for the benefit of overhead imagery. We don't actually know one way or the other.

 

[Ananda]

Pentagon Report: China Now Has World’s Largest Navy as Beijing Expands Military Influence - USNI News

China is bent on creating a world-class military that can conduct joint operations across the globe and already boasts the world’s largest navy, according to the Pentagon’s latest annual assessment of the Chinese military. A “permanent condition of military inferiority is anathema” to China’s...

news.usni.org

Well, as biggest fleet actually PLAN already achieve that for sometime. However the biggest fleet with increasingly blue water capabilities, that PLAN still struggling to achieve.
Thus with the latest strive at least in this decade, they're seems going to achieve that also.

Still this also run a question how they are going to achieve effective blue water operation. With increasingly aggressive behavior of PLAN and their quasi Navy the coast guards toward Chinese immediate neighbors, this will create increase spending for Navy in neighborhood.

If I see the Chinese Forums, those idiots ten cents seems only think the opposition for PLAN only come from USN. They're so sure without USN the rest of neighbors will meek down to mighty Chinese will and demand in the sea.
They're seems not graped the idea even without USN the neighbors will combine themselves toward China. The thinking of the more aggressive PLA/PLAF/PLAN will automatically delivered everyone to China demand.

This's kind of thinking that Third Reich hold. Those Chinese Nationalistics grass roots seems not conceiving the idea that combination of their neighbors Navy in the sea still have enough force to dettered PLAN access to Indies and Western Pacific. The idea of the rest of their Neighbors will submit to China whims without US support, seems ingrained in the head of those idiots.

How they're thinking that making adversarial reaction to China neighbors still ok, as long as they 'buy' friend in Africa, Iran, and South America. Those Chinese new friends can not be reach by China without access through their Neighbors.

Hope cooler heads still available in Chinese Administration, although with current administration in China, I have doubt on their continue prevailing.

 

[KiwiRob]

It wouldn't surprise me if the Chinese had bought the Yakovlev Yak-44 design from the Russians.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Well if we see the images online, I still see strong Y-7/AN-24 influence. I don't want to bring those images from Chinese forums or Weibo's..those are Fan Boys rendering. It's logical that the Chinese will based on a design they're allready mastered.

Off course the Chinese will continue to develop the design to make it more compact and weight acceptable for carrier operation. That's why I said it will be interesting how they are going to achieve that. I'm sure in the end it will turn out different aircraft than Y-7/AN-24 which are based. However so far Chinese has not provided detail picture of KJ-600, shown they're still working on that.

Just like DI/LAPAN build N-219 which is clearly shown based off NC-212. However the Chinese will have to go much farther to achieve carrier acceptable aircraft from Y-7 based.

Some new images of the KJ-600. And yes, as we can expect from the copy-paste worldchampion, its 'inspired by' the Grumman E-2.

Btw, although IPTN has learned from the production and development of the NC212, CN235 and N250, the N219 is not just "based on" or "a modified Aviocar" like some people claim on the internet.
New nose, fuselage, wings, empennage....designed from scratch.