Russian Air Force News & Discussion

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
An RVSN general recently dropped a bombshell, saying Russia is working on a hypersonic sub-orbital bomber, that will combine jet and rocket engines. It will be hypersonic when flying using the rocket engine, and be able to deliver long range weapons to anywhere on earth (if this is real, it might be the true carrier for the izd. 4202 hypersonic munition). First prototype is supposedly planned for 2020, but personally I find this a ridiculous timetable. Currently the RVSN academy has a working engine for it. Allegedly it will be a two-format engine which will be able to work without oxygen or with very little oxygen.

Звезда Ñмерти - Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½
ОхоÑÑподи - Берлога Бронемедведа
Such huge revolutionary projects will take at least twice the time originally planned and and costs triple the planned budget. As you said 2020 is an impossible timetable, at the earliest i expect around 2030, if it ever will become reality. I think it will end like that futuristic-plasma-stealth fantasy-project.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Such huge revolutionary projects will take at least twice the time originally planned and and costs triple the planned budget. As you said 2020 is an impossible timetable, at the earliest i expect around 2030, if it ever will become reality. I think it will end like that futuristic-plasma-stealth fantasy-project.
Maybe. I think it's linked with the testing of izd. 4202 on ICBM carriers. I think the project is more like a reusable ICBM then a true airplane.
 

Tsavo Lion

Banned Member
Third Tu-214R has been contracted. This likely means that reported issues with the first aircraft have finally been resolved. These are modern ELINT platforms for the Russian airforce, giving them significant new capabilities. And the first aircraft have been used to listen in on the Japanese in trials, and on the Ukrainians and over Syria for actual deployments.
This Google translated article confirms it:
New spy plane deserved recognition
Tu-214R showed high combat effectiveness in Syria
Vladimir Gundarov Deputy. managing editor of the "Independent Military Review"
During the operation in Syria reconnaissance aircraft Tu-214R, converted at the Kazan aircraft plant showed high combat effectiveness, informed "Tatar-Inform". Regnum news agency stressed that US officials admired Russian Tu-214R. They stated that the aircraft gives the "Russian more opportunities to track US aircraft in Syria." The scout converted a conventional medium-range narrow-body passenger Tu-214, which in April 2010 made ​​only spetskomplektatsii. Production of the commercial version, according to some sources, was terminated "due to unprofitability." The aircraft is multi-frequency radio engineering complex MRC-411, opto-electronics high-resolution "Faction" and other systems. The term of the Tu-214R VKS Russia postponed several times , in 2012 the Russian Defense Ministry even appealed to the Arbitration court with a claim to the Kazan aviation plant for the failure of the delivery of the aircraft for special purposes. From the decision of the Arbitration Court of the Republic of Tatarstan (dated 24 July 2012 the case A65-20621 / 2011) that the first production Tu-214R had to pass the military authorities not later than 30 December 2008 but because of difficulties with the organization of the flight test, and problems with avionics deadlines were thwarted. In its lawsuit against the Kazan plant and PSC "Tupolev" military unit 45807, speaking customer products, required to collect 1.2 billion rubles. But Perepetui creation of a new reconnaissance aircraft, which will replace the outdated Il-20 (for the codification of NATO - "Coot ") is now in the past. "Currently, the Russian Ministry of Defence has prepared a report on the results of the Tu-214R. The aircraft showed itself only with the best hand. All command set objectives have been met in full, but the equipment worked without serious failures. At the end of the operation the machine is recognized as fully combat-ready ", - he told the media representative of the military. The interviewee also said that the first time the scout did not operate from the airfield of Kazan aviation plant, where the aircraft is based and operated continuously by specialists and flew to the airbase Hmeymim. "On-board equipment and the reconnaissance system of the Tu-214R require careful maintenance and specialized infrastructure. But if in Kazan, all you need is there, the plane was serviced Hmeymime own crew and specialists of enterprises. But no incidents were not "- she said the expert in electronic systems, participate in the work. After the operation in the Syrian leadership PSC "Tupolev" in late July sent an appeal to the leadership of a number of companies with a request to encourage employees to ensure the Tu-214R work in Syria. Recently the Russian Defense Ministry has signed a contract to build a third reconnaissance aircraft Tu-214R. This was announced in early July, the head of the United Aircraft Corporation Yuri Slusar. According to him, the second plane optoelectronic and electronic reconnaissance Tu-214R had a good performance, so decided to order a third one.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Further confirmation that the Su-34 will be replacing the Su-25. It looks like the future dive bomber program will get cancelled. It's a little fuzzy what exactly this will look like. They're saying they will create a dive-bomber based on the Su-34 but that's nonsense, and they contradict it in the next paragraph, saying that the Su-34 will be a universal strike platform for the VVS (which sounds accurate). I suspect that use of the Su-34 in Syria revealed its advantage over the Su-25s, which have been pulled out for a reason. Personally I think they Su-34M upgrade will include further precision strike capability, and the Su-34 will take over most if not all the missions of the Su-25. It will be important to see whether it can take over the anti-tank mission because that will likely involve integrating ATGMs of some sort on it.

Су-25 -> Су-34 - Берлога Бронемедведа
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
They should look at developing the conventional PGM capabilities of the Yak-130 further as the Su-34 is a lot of bird for many missions (ok, not for the high altitude iron bombing the Russisns seems so fond of even in Syria...;)).

Otherwise they face the same problem like the West which uses expensive birds to operate in permissive environments where a cleverly armed trainer with a fraction of the procurement and operating costs should suffice.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
They should look at developing the conventional PGM capabilities of the Yak-130 further as the Su-34 is a lot of bird for many missions (ok, not for the high altitude iron bombing the Russisns seems so fond of even in Syria...;)).

Otherwise they face the same problem like the West which uses expensive birds to operate in permissive environments where a cleverly armed trainer with a fraction of the procurement and operating costs should suffice.
There's a Yak-152 propeller trainer being worked on right now that would probably be cheaper and simpler then the very expensive Yak-130. Honestly I'm not sure where this sudden turnaround on the dive bomber concept is coming from. Syria is not a normal war for Russia, and the Su-25 works best in close coordination with your own ground forces. So naturally it wouldn't shine in Syria, but it did quite well in every other war over the past 35 years, basically since its creation. And the Iraqis are getting work out of their Su-25s. I think a Super Frogfoot would be an excellent tool for Russia, especially given that PGMs are still not that common, not to mention that the Su-25 can do things that even PGMs struggle with (note the footage out of Grozny where Su-25s literally flew down streets, between buildings, to hit targets).
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
A propeller craft like the Super Tucano would also be usefull but I doubt Russias willingness to nake any major procurements which are not usefull in the case of the Great Patriotic War 2.0.

A weaponized Yak-130 would at least offer some service on such a case.

I am also surprised that the Su-25 hasn't seen more use in Syria as it seems tailormade for such a conflict. One reason could be that their targeting data is still shitty and so they rely mostly on unloading huge loads over proposed positions or just generally over rebel held territory. In such a case the bigger and faster birds shine.

It doesn't speak well for their air/land coordination if they can't get alot of usefull CAS out of the birds with all the embedded troops on the ground nor for their ISR assets to get usefull interdiction missions out of them.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
A propeller craft like the Super Tucano would also be usefull but I doubt Russias willingness to nake any major procurements which are not usefull in the case of the Great Patriotic War 2.0.

A weaponized Yak-130 would at least offer some service on such a case.
The Yak-152 is getting bought either way as a beginner trainer.

I am also surprised that the Su-25 hasn't seen more use in Syria as it seems tailormade for such a conflict. One reason could be that their targeting data is still shitty and so they rely mostly on unloading huge loads over proposed positions or just generally over rebel held territory. In such a case the bigger and faster birds shine.
Reportedly they don't want to fly that low. They actually did use Su-25s quite a bit but typically Su-25s pair well with an FAC on the ground. But as far as loads go, they've been flying with small loads this entire conflict. Even the Tu-22M3s are carrying a fraction of what they could.

It doesn't speak well for their air/land coordination if they can't get alot of usefull CAS out of the birds with all the embedded troops on the ground nor for their ISR assets to get usefull interdiction missions out of them.
They don't seem to have that many embedded. And they have been doing quite a lot of interdiction and long range strike but for that Su-34s and even Tu-22M3s are just better.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I thought the Tu-22s reduced their load due to weight restrictions. It's a long way from their Russian bases without air refueling.

The Yak-152 would need additional weapons integrations and additional numbers to be used on the light CAS/interdiction role and that's were Ivam sceptical that funds would be made available.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I thought the Tu-22s reduced their load due to weight restrictions. It's a long way from their Russian bases without air refueling.
From what I understand, they were still seriously under-loaded.

The Yak-152 would need additional weapons integrations and additional numbers to be used on the light CAS/interdiction role and that's were Ivam sceptical that funds would be made available.
I see. Yes this makes sense. Algeria is currently paying for Yak-130 dive bomber work, so Russia would get it basically free.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
At the closed portion of the Army-2016 forum, the Buk-M3 was displayed. The first such system is due for delivery to the armed forces this year. A single btln will now have one main radar, two TELARs presumably with just FCS radars and 6 missiles, a command post, one or two TELs with 12 missiles, and a transporter-loader vehicle.

It's claimed to have range from 2 to 70 kms, at altitudes from 15ms to 35 kms, with 36 target channels. The first Russian air defense brigade is due to receive the Buk-M3 this year.

Зенитный ракетный ÐºÐ¾Ð¼Ð¿Ð»ÐµÐºÑ "Бук-Ðœ3" - bmpd
 

Haavarla

Active Member
At the closed portion of the Army-2016 forum, the Buk-M3 was displayed. The first such system is due for delivery to the armed forces this year. A single btln will now have one main radar, two TELARs presumably with just FCS radars and 6 missiles, a command post, one or two TELs with 12 missiles, and a transporter-loader vehicle.

It's claimed to have range from 2 to 70 kms, at altitudes from 15ms to 35 kms, with 36 target channels. The first Russian air defense brigade is due to receive the Buk-M3 this year.

Зенитный ракетный ÐºÐ¾Ð¼Ð¿Ð»ÐµÐºÑ "Бук-Ðœ3" - bmpd

The new BUK M3 looks intimitating enough with its new missiles that can reach up to 70km out.
Another element in Russia capabilities.
 

Haavarla

Active Member
The BUK M3 field a new improved missile(RuNavy operate it from 2014) along other things. So yes its an improvement. And this New BUK now cover perfectly inbetween systems like Tor M2U and S-350 for the Russian army.

Edit:
Point in Interest. Even the Russian army branch now has far more capable anti-air systems, than every other nation bar US.. Or perhaps it even surpases US army capability.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Looks may deceive, other than shooting down Civilian Aircraft, limited real track record.
The same is true of many current Russian SAMs. There hasn't been a major war that would put these systems to the test, and hopefully it stays that way.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The BUK M3 field a new improved missile(RuNavy operate it from 2014) along other things. So yes its an improvement. And this New BUK now cover perfectly inbetween systems like Tor M2U and S-350 for the Russian army.

Edit:
Point in Interest. Even the Russian army branch now has far more capable anti-air systems, than every other nation bar US.. Or perhaps it even surpases US army capability.
Personally I think the project is unnecessary. It duplicates functionality of S-300V4 systems, as Land Forces Air Defense Brigades. They should have picked one or the other. Realistically the Land Forces need one independent air defense system at the army level. If they're filling that with the S-300V4, then the Buk needs to be retired. Below that level they have air defense btlns in each brigade. I guess if you really wanted to, you could stick Buks in there, but it just seems like its too much.
 

Haavarla

Active Member
Personally I think the project is unnecessary. It duplicates functionality of S-300V4 systems, as Land Forces Air Defense Brigades. They should have picked one or the other. Realistically the Land Forces need one independent air defense system at the army level. If they're filling that with the S-300V4, then the Buk needs to be retired. Below that level they have air defense btlns in each brigade. I guess if you really wanted to, you could stick Buks in there, but it just seems like its too much.
That is up for debate i guess. Russia has always believed in stronk anti-air capabilities. Across the different branches. The fact their Navy uses a lot of BUK(and S-300'ish) missiles, makes it far easier and cheaper to "adopt" it on other platforms.
And it remain to be seen exactly what type of missiles the high tier S-350 system will get.
It says it can use older S-300 missile as well.
The S-350 will most likely be able to use more types and size of new missile. Think of it as highly modular SAM system. Might even use BUK missiles.
But BUK SAM still has a market, some countries might not afford a S-300 system.., but order BUK M3


http://www.army-technology.com/projects/s-350e-vityaz-50r6-surface-to-air-defence-missile-system/
 
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