gazzzwp
Member
The US taking a lead role in a new military offensive rather than let Turkey blunder in and get themselves into trouble.
War Against ISIS
- Thread starter spikehades
- Start date
How would that be a clever solution? Turkey is hostile to Assad, and has serious problems with Russia. They had a diplomatic spat with Baghdad over their presence in Iraqi Kurdistan, and they've been accused of buying oil from questionable sources and supplying weapons to radical groups inside Syria. This is like putting the mafia in charge of the organized crime task force.
And you don't really think the Syrian Kurds will work with the Turkish military? Syrian Kurds are closely tied to the PKK. Not to mention the risk of Turkish jets being shot down by Syrian or "Syrian" air defense for violating Syrian airspace.
Update.
The SAA has taken ar-Rabia in nothern Latakia. The SAA effort in Latakia province involves large numbers of Russian advisers, and the Russian military even escorted international journalists into Salma, shortly after it was taken by the SAA. Russian observers believe that the goal is to close Latakia to the rebels, and then attack in central Idlib at the same time from the east and west.
СирийÑкие правительÑтвенные войÑка отбили у боевиков ÑтратегичеÑкий город ÐÑ€-Ð*абиа | Военный информатор
Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Âîåííûå ÐÔ íàáëþäàëè çà øòóðìîì ãîðîäà íà ñåâåðå Ñèðèè
Вчера в Сирии... - Вахтенный журнал Ñтареющего пирата
ГоворÑÑ‚ - вчера в Латакии... - Вахтенный журнал Ñтареющего пирата
In Latakia province, the SAA continues to take villages and hills as the push north of Salma, and simultaneously push along the Turkish border. In Damascus the SAA is pushing to cut the road between Darayya and Moadamiya. Russian airstrikes there have intensified to support the offensive. In Sheikh Miskin the SAA continues to push, but very slowly. The rebels there have released a video complaining that they lack tanks to stop the SAA offensive. It looks like the city will be in SAA hands, eventually. In Deyr-ez-Zor an SAA counter-offensive has retaken Tel-Baruk. Around Kuweiris, Tiger force has taken the villages of Qatar and Tel al-Hattabat, and repelled an ISIS counter-attack on Aisha (likely attacking out of al-Bab). This push westward seems an abandonment of earlier attempts to push against ISIS strong-holds in al-Bab and Deyr Hafer. Around Damascus, also, the 416th Regiment has taken two rebel leaders prisoner, a Jordanian Abu Al-Aman Al-Urundi, and a Saudi Abu al-Dusiri.
At Kalamun, ISIS has launched a decisive counter-offensive, pushing back the SAA. They're presently trying to approach the town of Saddad, and it looks like the attack came from Lebannon.
Сводка военных дейÑтвий в Сирии 22-23 ÑÐ½Ð²Ð°Ñ€Ñ 2016 года (Туфелька)
СириÑ, военные дейÑÑ‚Ð²Ð¸Ñ 24 ÑÐ½Ð²Ð°Ñ€Ñ 2016 года, оÑвобождена Ð*Ð°Ð±Ð¸Ñ (Туфелька)
Turkey is concerned with potential Russian weapon transfers to the Kurds.
Ð¢ÑƒÑ€ÐµÑ†ÐºÐ°Ñ Ñ€Ð°Ð·Ð²ÐµÐ´ÐºÐ° опаÑаетÑÑ Ð¿ÐµÑ€ÐµÐ´Ð°Ñ‡Ð¸ роÑÑийÑкого Ð²Ð¾Ð¾Ñ€ÑƒÐ¶ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐºÑƒÑ€Ð´Ð°Ð¼ - bmpd
An interesting shot of a fully functioning BMP-1 turret on a pickup truck. Note, this is not the first time this sort of conversion has been done.
"Штурмгешютц" ÑирийÑкой оппозиции - bmpd
An effective looking photo of two BDKs headed to Syria with cargo. One almost wants to caption it "The Empire Strikes Back".
"СирийÑкий ÑкÑпреÑÑ" в дейÑтвии - bmpd
Information keeps circulating about a Russian base being prepared at Qashimli airport. It is known that Russian specialists have visited the site, and are allegedly participating in repairing the airfield. Similar work was done at Sha'aryat and there were similar speculations then, but so far it has only been used to support helo ops. If the rumors of a US base near that area prove to be correct, they may end up neighbors.
Ð*оÑÑÐ¸Ñ Ñоздает новую военную базу в Сирии - у границы Ñ Ð¢ÑƒÑ€Ñ†Ð¸ÐµÐ¹ и Ираком? - bmpd
Análisis Militares: Base estadounidense en territorio sirio
Syria allegedly received a second, larger, batch of T-90s, and has been using them in their recent offensive.
Gur Khan attacks!: Ð*ебÑта продвигаютÑÑ!
Confirmation, the Iranian contingent is alive and kicking near Aleppo. Note the characteristic Iranian jeeps in a couple of the photos. Also note the Iranians posing with the T-90s. There's information that the Iranians are at least some of the actual operators of the T-90s in Syria.
http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/415020.html
The SAA has taken ar-Rabia in nothern Latakia. The SAA effort in Latakia province involves large numbers of Russian advisers, and the Russian military even escorted international journalists into Salma, shortly after it was taken by the SAA. Russian observers believe that the goal is to close Latakia to the rebels, and then attack in central Idlib at the same time from the east and west.
СирийÑкие правительÑтвенные войÑка отбили у боевиков ÑтратегичеÑкий город ÐÑ€-Ð*абиа | Военный информатор
Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Âîåííûå ÐÔ íàáëþäàëè çà øòóðìîì ãîðîäà íà ñåâåðå Ñèðèè
Вчера в Сирии... - Вахтенный журнал Ñтареющего пирата
ГоворÑÑ‚ - вчера в Латакии... - Вахтенный журнал Ñтареющего пирата
In Latakia province, the SAA continues to take villages and hills as the push north of Salma, and simultaneously push along the Turkish border. In Damascus the SAA is pushing to cut the road between Darayya and Moadamiya. Russian airstrikes there have intensified to support the offensive. In Sheikh Miskin the SAA continues to push, but very slowly. The rebels there have released a video complaining that they lack tanks to stop the SAA offensive. It looks like the city will be in SAA hands, eventually. In Deyr-ez-Zor an SAA counter-offensive has retaken Tel-Baruk. Around Kuweiris, Tiger force has taken the villages of Qatar and Tel al-Hattabat, and repelled an ISIS counter-attack on Aisha (likely attacking out of al-Bab). This push westward seems an abandonment of earlier attempts to push against ISIS strong-holds in al-Bab and Deyr Hafer. Around Damascus, also, the 416th Regiment has taken two rebel leaders prisoner, a Jordanian Abu Al-Aman Al-Urundi, and a Saudi Abu al-Dusiri.
At Kalamun, ISIS has launched a decisive counter-offensive, pushing back the SAA. They're presently trying to approach the town of Saddad, and it looks like the attack came from Lebannon.
Сводка военных дейÑтвий в Сирии 22-23 ÑÐ½Ð²Ð°Ñ€Ñ 2016 года (Туфелька)
СириÑ, военные дейÑÑ‚Ð²Ð¸Ñ 24 ÑÐ½Ð²Ð°Ñ€Ñ 2016 года, оÑвобождена Ð*Ð°Ð±Ð¸Ñ (Туфелька)
Turkey is concerned with potential Russian weapon transfers to the Kurds.
Ð¢ÑƒÑ€ÐµÑ†ÐºÐ°Ñ Ñ€Ð°Ð·Ð²ÐµÐ´ÐºÐ° опаÑаетÑÑ Ð¿ÐµÑ€ÐµÐ´Ð°Ñ‡Ð¸ роÑÑийÑкого Ð²Ð¾Ð¾Ñ€ÑƒÐ¶ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐºÑƒÑ€Ð´Ð°Ð¼ - bmpd
An interesting shot of a fully functioning BMP-1 turret on a pickup truck. Note, this is not the first time this sort of conversion has been done.
"Штурмгешютц" ÑирийÑкой оппозиции - bmpd
An effective looking photo of two BDKs headed to Syria with cargo. One almost wants to caption it "The Empire Strikes Back".
"СирийÑкий ÑкÑпреÑÑ" в дейÑтвии - bmpd
Information keeps circulating about a Russian base being prepared at Qashimli airport. It is known that Russian specialists have visited the site, and are allegedly participating in repairing the airfield. Similar work was done at Sha'aryat and there were similar speculations then, but so far it has only been used to support helo ops. If the rumors of a US base near that area prove to be correct, they may end up neighbors.
Ð*оÑÑÐ¸Ñ Ñоздает новую военную базу в Сирии - у границы Ñ Ð¢ÑƒÑ€Ñ†Ð¸ÐµÐ¹ и Ираком? - bmpd
Análisis Militares: Base estadounidense en territorio sirio
Syria allegedly received a second, larger, batch of T-90s, and has been using them in their recent offensive.
Gur Khan attacks!: Ð*ебÑта продвигаютÑÑ!
Confirmation, the Iranian contingent is alive and kicking near Aleppo. Note the characteristic Iranian jeeps in a couple of the photos. Also note the Iranians posing with the T-90s. There's information that the Iranians are at least some of the actual operators of the T-90s in Syria.
http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/415020.html
Last edited:
I hope that"beloved by his people" was sarcastic because the simple fact that there were Arab Spring protests against him, which he viciously put down, leading to civil war indicates that he was far from"beloved". The presence of so many non Syrians in the conflict now doesn't change the historical truth that it all started as an internal Syrian matter, triggered by Assads unpopularity among many Syrians.
Not sarcastic at all, been proven numerous of times. Most of the people who are fighting against him are no native Syrians, the initial protests were peaceful until proven provocateurs entered Syria. Did Assad crack down hard though? Yes he did, and he is at fault for that. Though, he is certainly the far lesser evil than any other party in Syria. Plus, he still held a approval majority before the protests. The Arab Spring is a failure of monumental proportions.
Don't be silly. Assad has a core of dedicated supporters, especially among the Alawis, but at this point he's little more then a less awful option. ISIS has lots of foreign fighters, but many of the other groups are so heavily rooted in their communities, that they're unwilling to fight away from their home towns and villages.
2007yellow430
Active Member
The interesting aspect of this is who funded those "
rotesters". That money came from outside of Syria. Saudi and Turks, I suspect. Since Russia have almost closed the Turkish Syria border to weapons, etc., the "rebels" have had a very difficult time of it. If we eliminate that outside money, I suspect Syria will end this conflict quite quickly.The politics of this conflict are pretty clear: Saudi, Turkish, etc. funding to overthrow Assad. It's a political problem, not a military one. Cut off the money, and it ends quickly.
Art
gazzzwp
Member
You forgot to mention the shooting of innocent protesters 5 years ago; the barrel bombing and the gassing of innocent people. None of which the Assad regime has been cleared of and in fact most believe they were directly responsible for.The interesting aspect of this is who funded those "
The politics of this conflict are pretty clear: Saudi, Turkish, etc. funding to overthrow Assad. It's a political problem, not a military one. Cut off the money, and it ends quickly.
Art
The extent to which other nations became involved afterward (including Iran etc) can be debated but the above issues will always represent the elephant in the room.
2007yellow430
Active Member
There is an argument that it wasn't innocents. From Wikipedia:
he unrest began on 15 March in Damascus and Aleppo, yet in the southern city of Daraa, sometimes called the "Cradle of the Revolution",[20] protests had been triggered on 6 March by the incarceration and torture of 15 young students, who were arrested for writing anti-government graffiti in the city,[21][22] "The people want the fall of the regime".[23] Demonstrators clashed with local police, and confrontations escalated on 18 March after Friday prayers. With thousands protesting, the clashes resulted in several civilian deaths. On 20 March, a mob burned down the Ba'ath Party headquarters and other public buildings. Security forces quickly responded, firing live ammunition at crowds, and attacking the focal points of the demonstrations. The two-day assault resulted in the deaths of fifteen protesters.[24]
Art
Yeah, hundreds of videos on youtube of peaceful protests and no shots. This is an obvious foreign funded, and supplied movement. That's why the SAA is winning, and why the population is happy. Remember most of the Syrian population, majority Sunni fled to Government controlled lands.
2007yellow430
Active Member
Problem is we will never know. There is an argument that the protesters got violent, and Assad over reacted, and here we are, but we'll never know if the protesters were incited.
I've seen this argument against Saddam, and that really turned out to be a smart decision, right? As I see it, that area is populated with folks that don't like each other, and they have little restraint in their dealings with each other. Left to their own devices, they wouldn't have to deal with a population problem.
It'as a mess and those of us in the West have little or no understanding of the consequences of intervention. Best we leave them alone to figure it out themselves.
Art
I essentially agree, let them figure it out without taking them in. Or we will just bring those problems into our own society, as we're seeing now.
You have made some claims that could be somewhat spurious or misleading. So how about backing those claims with some evidence from verifiable reliable sources please. There are those of us who are doubtful of your claims and think that they are misinformation and contain untruths.
ISIS child training camps in Turkey
ISIS training camp for children in Istanbul - Business Insider
FSA training in Turkey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN8EA4AXSgk
Russia bombing ISIS oil trucks going to and from Turkey(Been had, been Known fact recently, even in Feanor's links).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWh5sBzNlUU
An example of a mass peaceful protest, no firing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofmZYdmO2ZI
A massive pro assad rally in Hama(Sunni dominated)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMPwsNtrPWs
Out of the horses mouth.
Who's Funding ISIS? Wealthy Gulf 'Angel Investors,' Officials Say - NBC News
Out of the horses mouth two.
Exclusive: Secret Turkish nerve center leads aid to Syria rebels | Reuters
Joe Biden: "Our friend Turkey support ISIS"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHUlU9P18a4
Not sure why I needed to link anything? Seems obvious enough, and most of these links are actually re-links essentially.
Oh and a few more final nails in the coffin.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-syrians-support-bashar-al-assad/5405208
http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/05/31/nato-data-assad-winning-the-war-for-syrians-hearts-and-minds/
ISIS training camp for children in Istanbul - Business Insider
FSA training in Turkey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN8EA4AXSgk
Russia bombing ISIS oil trucks going to and from Turkey(Been had, been Known fact recently, even in Feanor's links).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWh5sBzNlUU
An example of a mass peaceful protest, no firing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofmZYdmO2ZI
A massive pro assad rally in Hama(Sunni dominated)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMPwsNtrPWs
Out of the horses mouth.
Who's Funding ISIS? Wealthy Gulf 'Angel Investors,' Officials Say - NBC News
Out of the horses mouth two.
Exclusive: Secret Turkish nerve center leads aid to Syria rebels | Reuters
Joe Biden: "Our friend Turkey support ISIS"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHUlU9P18a4
Not sure why I needed to link anything? Seems obvious enough, and most of these links are actually re-links essentially.
Oh and a few more final nails in the coffin.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-syrians-support-bashar-al-assad/5405208
http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/05/31/nato-data-assad-winning-the-war-for-syrians-hearts-and-minds/
Protip: you vaporize any credibility you may have had when you quote Global Research and the World Tribune.
His credibility was vapourware to me as soon as he quoted & used youtube as a reliable source of information.
Second that. Let's start with this particularly illuminating example.
At no point did Biden say what was in the title of the video. (Unlikely, given the bad grammar anyway.)
Sure, the complaint was that Turkey and the Gulf States were a little over-eager to support anyone who is anti-Assad i.e. Al-Nusra, but it does not support the claim that "Our friend Turkey support ISIS". It doesn't mean the same thing. A is a friend of B, and B is a friend of C. Can you conclusively say therefore that A is a friend of C? Maybe, maybe not. Without hard evidence, it's anybody's guess.
That video, regrettably, is not the hard evidence or smoking gun that will help you with your claim that 'Turkey is supporting ISIS'. A better claim would be 'Turkey supports anti-Assad groups, of which some use resources given by Turkey to support ISIS'. Nuance is annoying, but nuance matters.
ZeonChar, you've gotta work harder to check the quality of your sources before making such a bold assertion.
A bunch of Youtube videos of no evidential value except the Joe Biden one, which doesn't say what you claim.
One story which says that some rich private individuals in Qatar, etc., support Daesh which you present as if it is proof of government support (not in the real world!).
A respectable story about something which has pretty well always been known, i.e. that Turkey supports some rebel groups (the Syrian AD really, really, shouldn't have shot down that Turkish RF-4 in 2012: Erdogan seems to have taken it personally).
A story of police raiding & closing down a clandestine Daesh training ring in flats in Istanbul (calling them 'training camps' is false & very stupid). Don't you understand that this story is evidence of exactly the opposite of what you claim? Think!
One broken link (the last) to WorldTribune.com, which is not exactly credible, being an agenda-driven semi-hobby site known for publishing garbage. Nowhere near as bad as what comes next, though.
And then, to cap it all, a link to globalresearch.ca. Doh! One of the prime rules of the internet is that you never, ever cite Global Research as evidence. It's one of the biggest & best-known mad conspiracy theorist sites in existence. If it ever posts the truth, it's by accident.
All you've succeeded in doing is demonstrating that you have no credibility.
If you want to be taken seriously, there are a few simple rules:
- Make sure that your sources say what you claim they say
- Make sure that what you post is not obviously false (occasional mistakes are acceptable - nobody is perfect)
- Examine your sources & do your best to assess their credibility, so you don't find yourself citing crazy sites from the bottom of the internet (e.g. globalresearch.ca) as if they're believable.
I'm afraid you've broken all those rules. You'll have to work very hard now if you want to be taken seriously in the future, & it'll take time.
2007yellow430
Active Member
I think that the allegation that turkey supports the ISIS has been made by some respectable folks. CNN reported that the Russian accused Turkey of purchasing oil from the ISIS.
Here is the CNN article:
Russia, Turkey trade charges: Who bought oil from ISIS? - CNN.com
Art
Different allegation.
Why can't you (& many others) get the distinctions through your heads? Individuals, however high placed, corruptly engaging in profitable trading with a horrible entity such as Daesh is NOT state support. You seem to believe that nobody does anything, anywhere, without government backing. That's not exactly a realistic world view.
The allegations of Erdogan's personal involvement come from Russia, which unfortunately is not credible. See its numerous lies about, for example, its actions in Crimea & Ukraine, some of which Putin has even boasted about since. How do you trust the word of someone who boasts about past lies?
Even if Russia's telling the truth, anything it says needs independent verification. The oil trafficking it's shown evidence of is credible, but it's not shown any evidence that it's carried out by the Turkish state or Erdogan.
Why can't you (& many others) get the distinctions through your heads? Individuals, however high placed, corruptly engaging in profitable trading with a horrible entity such as Daesh is NOT state support. You seem to believe that nobody does anything, anywhere, without government backing. That's not exactly a realistic world view.
The allegations of Erdogan's personal involvement come from Russia, which unfortunately is not credible. See its numerous lies about, for example, its actions in Crimea & Ukraine, some of which Putin has even boasted about since. How do you trust the word of someone who boasts about past lies?
Even if Russia's telling the truth, anything it says needs independent verification. The oil trafficking it's shown evidence of is credible, but it's not shown any evidence that it's carried out by the Turkish state or Erdogan.