Indonesian Aero News

[Sandhi Yudha]

Photo credit to Yuhusa Setyo Instagram.

Photo of N219 prototype. This is the first DI/IAe aircraft that really build and design by Indonesian engineers without assistance from foreign consultants or Partners.

Despite Habibie negative comments on the aircraft, saying this is a set back for DI, but this actually a more solid ground based development for DI. This is the real step to build aircraft independently and based on more realistic calculation on business prospects and DI 's own resources.

Habibie Called N219 Aircraft 'A Toy' Â* | National | Tempo.Co :: Indonesian News Portal

Ofcourse, compared to the N250, the N219 is a couple of steps back, but as you said " this actually a more solid ground based development for DI. This is the real step to build aircraft independently and based on more realistic calculation on business prospects and DI 's own resources." Well i have nothing to add, everything you say is true.

I think this is a good strategy, to start with the N219, and after that to continue with modernizing the CN235 into the N245.

I really hope the further development and certification of the N219 will go smoothly, without people and organizations from inside Indonesia and abroad who want to try to stall this project.

 

[40 deg south]

Add on tonnyc comment:
Those 3 type turboprops are for different set of training curiculum (Grob and KT-1), and for COIN/CAS specifications (Super Tucano).
Can KT-1 being wired for COIN ? Perhaps with some adjustment it can, but it is not what their role in TNI-AU. So 3 types with different kind of roles, seems still in line.

For C-130, TNI-AU still in line for 3 sq: 2 existing, with one for C-130B in Malang AB(being upgraded to H specs), and another for C-130H in Jakarta AB. 1 new sq in Makasar AB for ex RAAF C-130H.

There are talked on larger class of Transport (Presumably replacing the C-130B), of possible C-130J, A-400M, even talked for IL-76. Then again is still talked..nothing definite yet.

Airbus Proves More A400M Capabilities, and Eyes Exports | Defense News: Aviation International News

Antonio Barberan, military aircraft sales head for Airbus D&S, said that the company has presented A400M sales proposals to nine countries. He would not confirm reports that Egypt is one of these, but did say that three were in Latin America, and also acknowledged discussions with Indonesia and New Zealand.

FYI, Airbus is still trying hard to make a sale to Indonesia and NZ (my country).

Regarding the N219, the designers may have recognised that there are a huge number of light twin-turboprops around the world that are very old, with few replacement aircraft in sight. GECI Aviation in France developed an aircraft targeting this niche, but went broke before reaching production. Evektor in the Czech Republic have got a 12-seater in the certification process, and are seeking funds to ramp up production. Viking Air in Canada have restarted production of the ancient DHC Twin Otter and are struggling to keep up with demand.

If Indonesia can produce a robust aircraft at a good price, there might be much wider demand for it than people realise. After all, the success of Brazil's Embraer was largely built on a very successful light twin turboprop, the Bandeirante.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_EMB_110_Bandeirante

 

[tonnyc]

FYI, Airbus is still trying hard to make a sale to Indonesia and NZ (my country).

Regarding the N219, the designers may have recognised that there are a huge number of light twin-turboprops around the world that are very old, with few replacement aircraft in sight. GECI Aviation in France developed an aircraft targeting this niche, but went broke before reaching production. Evektor in the Czech Republic have got a 12-seater in the certification process, and are seeking funds to ramp up production. Viking Air in Canada have restarted production of the ancient DHC Twin Otter and are struggling to keep up with demand.

If Indonesia can produce a robust aircraft at a good price, there might be much wider demand for it than people realise. After all, the success of Brazil's Embraer was largely built on a very successful light twin turboprop, the Bandeirante.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_EMB_110_Bandeirante

Yes, Airbus is still marketing the A400M to Indonesia too. And there is no reason to stop, really. Their close relationship with Indonesian Aerospace gives them a foot in the door already. Might still lose to C-130J, but it'll be a close competition.

And your observation regarding N-219 is correct too. IAe officials practically said the same thing, although they were careful to couch it as fulfilling domestic needs first.

The business case behind N-219 seems solid. The major competitors are the Twin Otter and Y-12, which are formidable, but IAe is confident that the market is big enough that they can snag a healthy profit regardless. They already secured some orders domestically and if they can fulfill it without technical hiccups and the plane flies as expected, then by 2020 they will be in a good position

 

[Ananda]

S. Korea, RI aerospace firms sign KFX cooperation deal | The Jakarta Post

Latest development on KFX/IFX..altough majority of tech will be same between the two variances..but some differences in IFX:

In range..where IFX will have greater range..speculation seems indicated where KFX will eventually developed underbelly weapon storage bay like F-35..but IFX probably will have smaller internal bay or omitted altogether for benefit of larger fuel tanks.

In air refueling..where KFX have boom system and IFX will have probe system..

In Data link..where KFX will used/developed US based link 16..IFX will be used/developed other data link system, which will enable IFX to link with both western and Russian fighters in Indonesian AF inventory.
On this last item, local forum speculated cooperation with SAAB which already offered developing its own data link system which will enable the need above.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

S. Korea, RI aerospace firms sign KFX cooperation deal | The Jakarta Post

Latest development on KFX/IFX..altough majority of tech will be same between the two variances..but some differences in IFX:

In range..where IFX will have greater range..speculation seems indicated where KFX will eventually developed underbelly weapon storage bay like F-35..but IFX probably will have smaller internal bay or omitted altogether for benefit of larger fuel tanks.

In air refueling..where KFX have boom system and IFX will have probe system..

In Data link..where KFX will used/developed US based link 16..IFX will be used/developed other data link system, which will enable IFX to link with both western and Russian fighters in Indonesian AF inventory.
On this last item, local forum speculated cooperation with SAAB which already offered developing its own data link system which will enable the need above.

Thank you for sharing Ananda!

 

[Ananda]

Seems the talk on getting ShinMaywa US-2 is gaining momentum.

Japan and Indonesia agree to start defence trade talks | IHS Jane's 360

Not much info yet outside US-2 on what kind of Japanese Defence Equipment that is in the talked. Altough some talked in here on Japan defense industry is also looking on potential defence co-op with local shipyard..just like the ROK defense industry did..

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Innalillahi wa inailaihi rojiun...
I just read this in the newspaper.
Yogyakarta airshow turns tragic as two pilots die | The Jakarta Post
I often think about our aerobatic stuntteams, we use for it our newest and most hightech aircrafts for it and our most expereinced pilots, while those stuntflights has much more risks involved in it compared to normal training flights...

 

[Toblerone]

I think these air shows should be more about showing off the aircraft with overflights and simple maneuvers, maybe flares etc (while basic information is given to the crowd) and less about "aerobatics" and "stunts".

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

I think these air shows should be more about showing off the aircraft with overflights and simple maneuvers, maybe flares etc (while basic information is given to the crowd) and less about "aerobatics" and "stunts".

Agree Toblerone, those things are impressive enough.

A news article of Indonesia's plan to be able to guard the Natuna area better:
Indonesia Will Defend South China Sea Territory With F-16 Fighter Jets - Bloomberg

One of the things in the plan is to station 5 F-16s on the island (unclear if these F-16s are from Iswahyudi AB's SkU3 or from the new SkU16 at Pekanbaru).

I think its even better to station there a fixed squadron permanently. The nearest fightersquadron is at Supadio AB at Pontianak, which is still more than 300 km to the southeast.

 

[40 deg south]

Indonesia to buy Airbus A400M military transport planes: minister | Reuters

An interesting development from Indonesia's Defense Minister.

I'd be interested in any comment from our Indonesian readers on whether there been any public hints on timing or numbers?

And, of course, whether this is just another politicians wish-list, or a commitment for which funding is available?

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Indonesia to buy Airbus A400M military transport planes: minister | Reuters

An interesting development from Indonesia's Defense Minister.

I'd be interested in any comment from our Indonesian readers on whether there been any public hints on timing or numbers?

And, of course, whether this is just another politicians wish-list, or a commitment for which funding is available?

For many months the minister of defence claims that Indonesia will order eight-ten Su-35, he even almost promised that the contract will be signed this month. But now the minister of foreign affairs tell the press that there was never a plan to buy the Su-35...... :eek

Here the defence minister claims that the president will witness the signing of the contract of 8 Su-35: Kunjungi Rusia, Jokowi akan Saksikan Pembelian Jet Tempur Sukhoi Su-35

But now we got this report.
Menlu: RI-Rusia Kerja Sama Pertahanan, Tak Ada Pembelian Sukhoi

In the era of Jokowi its better not to believe claims of his ministers until the first aircraft or other piece of weaponry is delivered.

 

[John Fedup]

Indonesia to buy Airbus A400M military transport planes: minister | Reuters

An interesting development from Indonesia's Defense Minister.

I'd be interested in any comment from our Indonesian readers on whether there been any public hints on timing or numbers?

And, of course, whether this is just another politicians wish-list, or a commitment for which funding is available?

Given the on-going problems with the A400M, Indonesia may be able to get early delivery with Germany threatning to cancel some units. On the other hand C-130Js might be a safer and less expensive bet.

A400M Risk Grows As No End In Sight for Troubles

 

[Ananda]

Jokowi administration full of 'image building' exercise. Ironically when they are in opposition they always say previous admin of sby is the image building admin. Turn out what Jokowi done so far is just finishing all contracts frm sby time..and this is not just limited on defense issue..but in all aspects of administration.

Thus like Sandhi Yudha said..or what I'm doing so far...I' try to restrain post anything unless it already 'inked' the contract or the equipment already come..

Just like what heavy transport the af will ended up with..it can turn out on anything..since nothing can be hold frm Jokowi administration unless there are cleared payment being made..since if only MoU it can be annulled by this Admin..

However on issue on A400M..with strong collaboration between Airbus Military and PT DI..it can be said that Airbus Military is in better position. Still anything can happen with this Administration.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Im agree with Ananda, until now the only thing Jokowi has done until now is receiving defencematerial ordered in the SBY era.

Most Confusing are all those articles/newsreports about the plan to order the 8/10/12 aircrafts of the Su-35. The amount of aircrafts change all the time, but also if the plan still exist or already cancelled or never existed at all.....
I just believe it when the first Su-35 is delivered. Now i found this article, weeks after the report of the minister of foreign affairs that there was never a plan to buy the Su-35...
Indonesia to Buy 8 Russian Su-35 Fighter Jets, Talks Near Completion

 

[Ananda]

Now, the defence minister talk in tempo newspaper article that the price difference between what the Russian asking and what Indonesian offer is clossing..he also talked that the US won't give permission on using US$ as currency for the transaction due to US saction to Russia..and other thing like ToT term..

Honestly I see just more excuses on deflecting what is the real problem..Some parlement members now talking about how expensive the operating cost of Flankers family compared to Western Fighters.

This is just showing in my opinion the potential other fighter candidates still have chances to win the deal..it also shown this administration have difficult decision making process..

 

[Ananda]

Indonesian MEF Budget 2015-2019

ARCinc.ID - Mengintip Budget MEF Tahap 2

Above is the link frm ARC website on the budget for military procurement period 2015-2019. In sense budget for procurement during present administration (Jokowi Administration). As I mentioned before, so far Jokowi only finishing contract and payment for defense procurement frm previous administration (SBY administration) called MEF-1.

This budget called MEF-2, arc put it on 27th of June, but I have to recheck reliabilities before post it here. Frm what I gather all the budget in here is new one and not related with budget and payment for MEF-1. Thus all this for new procurement.

Related to Indonesian AF Fighter procurement, the budget put USD 1.2 bio for Fighter. This seems indicating for F-5 replacement, since that has not been allocated in MEF-1 as far as I can confirmed. Thus for all talking on additional fighter procurement outside F-5 replacement, Jokowi's admin has not factored in that during his administration reign until 2019.

The budget like MEF-1 divided into Foreign Financing (using USD), and Domestic Financing (using IDR). Domestic financing related on using fund inshore like frm Local banks. It's related mostly with domestic vendor/industry or foreign equipment with local vendor cooperation. Foreign Financing mostly talked with International vendor.

Total procurement budgeted USD 7.7 Bio and IDR 15.0 Trillion (roughly USD 11.5 Bio). This USD 19.0 bio over 4 years is not same with defense budget, but portion of defense budget being used for procurement of new equipment and system.

Interestingly
http://m.antaranews.com/berita/570205/saab-swedia-resmi-tawarkan-jas39-gripen-kepada-indonesia

Saab in relatively same time the budget comes to public..officially offered 1 sq of Grippen with USD 1.14 bio budget or around the budget being prepared. SAAB offered 10 Grippen prepared in Sweden while the rest 6 being prepared in Indonesia as part of tech transfer..

Just like I posted before the talk on which one going to be the F-5 replacement is still not over, despite talk on SU-35 iminent procurement. The field still open.

 

[Ahmad]

Indonesia's PTDI to expand in new facility

Jon Grevatt, Bangkok - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
19 August 2016

Indonesia's state-owned aerospace manufacturer PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) plans to move its production facilities in order to position itself for an anticipated expansion in orders, the company's president, Budi Santoso, announced on 18 August.

According to Santoso, a new facility, measuring up to 300 hectares, will be built on land surrounding Indonesia's new international airport, which is currently under construction in Kertajati, West Java, and is scheduled to open in 2017.

Santoso said that the capacity of PTDI's existing 50-hectare facility in Bandung, West Java, is "already too full". He added that the company's expansion in Kertajati has already received government approval, and that the new facility is expected to be operational by 2019.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what I know from local news:

As said by PT Dirgantara Director, the new facility is intended to civilian aircraft production. As I know there are several programs that hasnt yet reached production stage like: N 219 (prototype and certification process), N245 (under development), and potential PT DI and PT RAI collaboration on R 80 passenger aircraft. The new facility will give more possibility on PT DI and PT RAI collaboration that seems impossible to materialize under existing facility.

And the existing facility in Bandung will be used primarily for military products production like military transport aircraft (CN 235, C 212, C 295), Helicopters, fighter jet (KFX/IFX program), UAV (Wulung) and UCAV program (under development), missile, and torpedo production.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia's PTDI to expand in new facility

Jon Grevatt, Bangkok - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
19 August 2016

Indonesia's state-owned aerospace manufacturer PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) plans to move its production facilities in order to position itself for an anticipated expansion in orders, the company's president, Budi Santoso, announced on 18 August.

According to Santoso, a new facility, measuring up to 300 hectares, will be built on land surrounding Indonesia's new international airport, which is currently under construction in Kertajati, West Java, and is scheduled to open in 2017.

Santoso said that the capacity of PTDI's existing 50-hectare facility in Bandung, West Java, is "already too full". He added that the company's expansion in Kertajati has already received government approval, and that the new facility is expected to be operational by 2019.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what I know from local news:

As said by PT Dirgantara Director, the new facility is intended to civilian aircraft production. As I know there are several programs that hasnt yet reached production stage like: N 219 (prototype and certification process), N245 (under development), and potential PT DI and PT RAI collaboration on R 80 passenger aircraft. The new facility will give more possibility on PT DI and PT RAI collaboration that seems impossible to materialize under existing facility.

And the existing facility in Bandung will be used primarily for military products production like military transport aircraft (CN 235, C 212, C 295), Helicopters, fighter jet (KFX/IFX program), UAV (Wulung) and UCAV program (under development), missile, and torpedo production.

Ahmaf this is good news, if this Administrations can back it up with real Investment for this. So far the Government additional capital injection to DI/IAe only can provide additional operating cost and some new facilities in present DI site..

The new facilities projected to be at least 'twice' larger than present one..Where the money coming from ? DI has enough trouble to cover their own operating expense..and how they are going to finance it ? What is the plan by Jokowi's administration to raise the fund to do it..even with huge investment under Soeharto's era..we can only afford to build DI within present site and capacity..

Soeharto is a dictactor (like Soekarno before him)..thus can push all the buttons in Indonesia as he want..but present Administration is far from that capabilities..thus they have to show real blue print and concept on how to finance building much bigger second facilities for DI..

Now DI's present CEO talk about the second larger sites is for civilian products and projects..while present site is for Defence related products/projects..are the present administration willling to invite strategic foreign investor to DI's civilian 'division' and divided the company to civilian and defence ones. ?? So they can sell the civilian part to foreign investors..

Cause I don't see at present conditions we can justified building much larger 'civilian' facilities for DI, unless some foreign 'mature' aerospace can be a partner and bank rolled it..Yes DI already have long term relationship with Airbus Group..and it is logical if plan to build larger site being offered to Airbus..thus make it DI's new civilian sites is in actual Airbus subsidiary...
Are we politically and commercially willing to do it? More importantly..is Airbus willing to invest on that..?

Basically DI's don't have financial and commercial track record to justified Investment for larger sites..at least perhaps for another decade of healthy and commercially viable track record..

This news in my opinion until now is just another Jokowi's talk..and until he can provide something tangible and solid plan to accomplished the plan..I don't think under present budget stucture we can justified it..
Thus why I don't want to put it in this thread before...but off course you are welcome to put it..

 

[Ananda]

Talking about Indonesian Defense Budget, this article frm today's Jakarta Post seems good enough to highlight what's logically should be prioritise on defense budget under current budget situation.

COMMENTARY: Budget cuts and the TNI’s modernization program - The Jakarta Post

What is I see that need to be think..with 40% of Budget goes to regular day to day operational, and only 20% goes to procurement..the comentator think that the cut should goes to 40% of Opex is make sense logically.
Since this Opex mostly constitute on housing and wellfare but also add program that not directly goes to operation..or in the US often called 'pork belly' budget (correct me if I'm wrong ).

This kind of budget that related to some politically motivated program..like the current mindef darling project called 'bela negara' of 'Nation Defense Motivation'..In sense this program aimed to build 'reserve capabilities' frm non-combatan civilian in the case of emergency national defense situation..something that should not be prioritise under present conditions..

National reserve should be build after the present level of regular combatan building already 'well in placed' on the capabilities sides.
This present defense minister should focus on that, and not talkin on something that not real priority under present TNI development condition. Hope Jokowi can push his ministers on focusing what's the most important..and not some wishy-wishy projects.

 

[Ananda]

https://m.merdeka.com/peristiwa/5-jet-tempur-f-16-hibah-dari-as-untuk-tni-au-tiba-di-indonesia.html

Sorry in Indonesian. Additional 5 F-16 52id (Indonesian designation for F-16 block 25 upgraded with blok 52 standard avionics), landed on last Wednesday 21st September at Iswahyudi AB.

Thus already 14 of 24 (the papers says 30, but actually the contract is for 24 F-16 with additional 6 as spares), enter TNI-AU service. If nothing changes 16 of 24 will be stationed in Pekanbaru AB skd 16, while the other 8 will complements existing 10 F-16 blik 15 OCU in skd 3 in Iswahyudi AB.

No info on planned upgraded project for existing F-16 blk 15 OCU that planned to be upgraded on same standard with those 24 F-16 52id.