I'm guessing someone did a reality check on the PAK-FA program, and took a closer look at the delivery rates for the Su-35S, and realized they needed to keep more older aircraft in service to meet the requirements that the VVS is facing.
Russian Air Force News & Discussion
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Haavarla
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I wouldn't commet on that. I do not know which capability and doctrines the Russian air force and air defence allocate and prioritize.
Perhaps keeping the Foxhound fleet vital and operational in the future, is viewed as 100% neccessary for projecting their goals and force.
Just think about the Russian Air Defence. If the Foxhound get better datalinks, this alone would mean a significant force mulitplier. Cause as a platform, the Foxhound can really travel fast from one position to another.
Personaly i think this is vital for Russia, and with newer A100, better senors like AESA and satelites, it kind of makes sense to keep them alongside the Flankers and T-50.
Perhaps keeping the Foxhound fleet vital and operational in the future, is viewed as 100% neccessary for projecting their goals and force.
Just think about the Russian Air Defence. If the Foxhound get better datalinks, this alone would mean a significant force mulitplier. Cause as a platform, the Foxhound can really travel fast from one position to another.
Personaly i think this is vital for Russia, and with newer A100, better senors like AESA and satelites, it kind of makes sense to keep them alongside the Flankers and T-50.
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Air Force Brat
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Am I the only poster here, who finds this rather astounding, I mean given a choice of Flanker or Foxhound, I have a very difficult time picturing the Foxhound as winning any air engagement with potential adversaries,,,, yes it will fly high and fast, and yes that gives your AAM a real kinematic advantage, but it looks like the Foxhound would be an easy kill? I guess I'm stuck in that grey area between what is and what should be???? On the other hand the Flanker seems like a real airplane, with outstanding speed, range, and kinematic agility???
So its just the old pocketbook???? and I don't have any delusions about PAK-FA, but really wouldn't it make more sense to build a few more Flankers????
Kasatka
Member
you should read thea above posts. the mig-31BM datalink + future A-100 might be a great combination for C3 and battlefield/contested airspace management.
i personally think it's an interesting move.
btw, there is another comment from Feanor in which he suggests that maybe the delivery rates of Su-35/PAKFA are leaving holes in the Russian air strategy.
finally, idk why you would be interested in a maneuverability in the MiG-31 when it's got mach 2.5+ capability and an extremely long ferry range. those 2 things should also be taken into account when analyzing this move.
btw, an aircraft such as this has a very interesting capability for modern war theaters: look down shoot down radars are today more important than ever, as they allow your air assets to shoot down hoards of drones and cruise missiles. i'ts a bit far fetched i know, but i believe saturation attacks are going to be a very important part of next generation conflicts, as are electronic/cyber warfare. thus, having more platforms with command and control capability via secure datalink, and a powerful radar adds to the strategy.
alexkvaskov
New Member
Current RuAF practice seems to be Foxhounds and Flankers working together. Feanor mentioned earlier in the thread how the VVS has Flankers go in cold, with illumination and targeting provided from behind by the Foxhounds. Similar to the Backfire, the Foxhound is meant to reach out into the AO with its long range, high speed missiles and quickly move out at a rapid pace.
Haavarla
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There are some rumor from Mordor, that the Foxhound will get a new missile as well. In any case will only make the Flanker/Mig combo even more lethal.
That has been the case since the breakup of SU. The Mig-31 got transferred from POV into RuAF and the new Flankers and Migs supplement each other quite nicely.
We did see a pair of Foxhound outside Alaska this year, so it seems VVS are rewriting the utility and tactics for them as we speak. Imo a much more offensive asset now.
That has been the case since the breakup of SU. The Mig-31 got transferred from POV into RuAF and the new Flankers and Migs supplement each other quite nicely.
We did see a pair of Foxhound outside Alaska this year, so it seems VVS are rewriting the utility and tactics for them as we speak. Imo a much more offensive asset now.
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Kasatka
Member
Are you referring to the R-37 (izdeliye 610)?
Btw, the best example of the importance of the Foxhound's in current RuAF doctrine can be found in the last 19th of november relocation of Foxhounds and (EW/GAI?) radars near the Ukranian border. Two days ago they proceeded to move Flankers to Crimea. I don't believe this is just coincidence.
Also if i'm not mistaken the A-50, at least the old, not (A-50U) modernized versions, of which there are still plenty in the RuAF inventory, can direct a maximum of 10 aircraft to targets; although I'm not sure as how that works (radio direction or data link?). If this is so, then it would be great to have more airborne radars/dlinks (Foxhounds).
Klaus
New Member
As my Russian is far from being perfect I might have missed something in the article about the MiG-31 upgrade, but are the aircraft to be upgraded the ones which are currently in service, or will they pull other MiGs out of storage? There should be plenty of them left in reserve.
If the VVS wants to keep the MiG-31 in service until 2031, what was anounced last year, upgrading the currently active units would seem to be quite optimistic.
If the VVS wants to keep the MiG-31 in service until 2031, what was anounced last year, upgrading the currently active units would seem to be quite optimistic.
Haavarla
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Let me quote something here:
"Currently i have counted 66 of them, including MiG frames and atleast one that was lost in September. Will be interesting how the modernization will go on, the current 66 are all based on either B or BS frames. B's were exhausted a while ago, and although i have never seen a firm number for how many BS' there ever were, the number is believed to be around a dozen. And around a dozen of BS' are already updated to BSM standard.
So future updated frames will be based on vanilla and DZ sort. Will be interesting if they are somewhat updated to BS standard first, and then to BSM or if there is a more direct work around. Or a new modernization for that matter. Interviews with NIIP has suggest there is a second stage modernization for Zaslon. Also, R-37M needs to becomes operational already dammit."
"Currently i have counted 66 of them, including MiG frames and atleast one that was lost in September. Will be interesting how the modernization will go on, the current 66 are all based on either B or BS frames. B's were exhausted a while ago, and although i have never seen a firm number for how many BS' there ever were, the number is believed to be around a dozen. And around a dozen of BS' are already updated to BSM standard.
So future updated frames will be based on vanilla and DZ sort. Will be interesting if they are somewhat updated to BS standard first, and then to BSM or if there is a more direct work around. Or a new modernization for that matter. Interviews with NIIP has suggest there is a second stage modernization for Zaslon. Also, R-37M needs to becomes operational already dammit."
Haavarla
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Yes, perhaps R-37M or something else.
The vanila A-50 is pretty outdated when it comes to prossessing power and datalink capability.
The VVS will get a updated A-50U every 18th month or so. at least until the first A-100 are operational. Probably we will see 5-6 A-50U by then, the rest will get mothballed.
Haavarla
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I did mention that the VVS Mig-31 has adopted a more offensive role. Well it doesn't get more offensive than seen here:
Unik video: Så nær er russiske og norske jagerfly langs norskekysten - Forsvaret - VG
When a Russian Foxhound cuts in front of the F-16 within a distance of 20m between them.
The Norwegian F-16 pilot calls out: -WTF! And throws in a sharp left bank, to get away of harms way.
Unik video: Så nær er russiske og norske jagerfly langs norskekysten - Forsvaret - VG
When a Russian Foxhound cuts in front of the F-16 within a distance of 20m between them.
The Norwegian F-16 pilot calls out: -WTF! And throws in a sharp left bank, to get away of harms way.
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Kasatka
Member
Very nice find (video)! That sure is an interesting way to make a routine interception stand out.
It looks as if lately (this year) this "aggressive" behavior has become some sort of doctrine during RuAF training exercises in "international" airspace.
By the way, I couldn't gather any concrete/convincing data about this: Will the Zaslon-M for the Mig-31BM be a PESA or AESA model? For once it's pretty clear that the radar was first designed during the late 80's. Has it been further modified up until now? Or will they use another completely different radar?
Thank's again for everyone's input.
That's getting very cheeky indeed to cut so closely in front of another fighter aircraft like that... interesting to see that Fullback footage towards the end of the video too, I didn't know the Russians had them out and flying patrols around Norway. The SU-34 fleet is still very small so far, correct?
Haavarla
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The latest numbers of Su-34 delivered to VVS is up to 57 according to my book. It looks like they are rotating the Hellducks up north in Russia whenever they go on exercises. Cause the Airbases of Su-34 are located far south-east in Russia.
Very small compared to what? They're far over 30 aircraft. Two line air regiments have taken deliveries (at least one is completely re-armed). Certainly enough to sortie a couple around Norway. Also they've made a practice of using their newest gear to show off. Like the Tu-214R doing patrols near Japan with two new Su-30M2s accompanying it.
There is a powerful inertia at work, with some high level officers in the VVS backing the MiG-31 upgrade and MiG-31 replacement project (allegedly MiG-41). I'm not sure why, but there seems to be an active desire to retain the capabilities of the MiG-31. Given what it is, I don't see very many likely threats it will counter, save maybe future Chinese bombers. But they may be thinking that they intend to use it as a platform for ASAT munitions (the Soviet-era project on the subject has been resumed and it used the MiG-31D), or a platform for very long range missiles intended to strike ELINT, AEW, or tankers.
Mind you, this is just my speculation. I don't know much for sure.
What's strange about the benefit of having 360-deg. spherical awareness surrounding one's aircraft?
Ka-27PL upgrades are finally starting. Glass cockpit, new radar, new ASW systems, etc.
bmpd -
There's a mixed air regiment formed in Crimea, using Su-30s and Su-27SM3s. In other words, it's all new aircraft, though not the most capable bunch.
bmpd -
Also, finally, a guided missile is being developed that can be launched from the standard S-8 rocket pod. Honestly it's about time. So much of Russia's CAS comes in those rocket pods.
bmpd -
And while we're on the subject of intercepts, the VVS intercepted a Swedish ELINT jet near Kaliningrad. A Gulfstream, IVSP.
http://www.military-informant.com/n...j-samolet-vblizi-kaliningradskoj-oblasti.html
There is also unconfirmed info about a new trainer jet for the VVS, the SR-10. It originally lost to the Yak-130 offering, but maybe making a comeback as an inbetween trainer, between the simple Yak-18 and the complex Yak-130.
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1071514.html
http://www.military-informant.com/n...ye-uchebno-trenirovochnye-samolety-sr-10.html
And of course tentative images of the Pantsyr-SM. Not sure about accuracy.
http://www.military-informant.com/n...ektivnogo-zenitnogo-kompleksa-pantsir-sm.html
bmpd -
There's a mixed air regiment formed in Crimea, using Su-30s and Su-27SM3s. In other words, it's all new aircraft, though not the most capable bunch.
bmpd -
Also, finally, a guided missile is being developed that can be launched from the standard S-8 rocket pod. Honestly it's about time. So much of Russia's CAS comes in those rocket pods.
bmpd -
And while we're on the subject of intercepts, the VVS intercepted a Swedish ELINT jet near Kaliningrad. A Gulfstream, IVSP.
http://www.military-informant.com/n...j-samolet-vblizi-kaliningradskoj-oblasti.html
There is also unconfirmed info about a new trainer jet for the VVS, the SR-10. It originally lost to the Yak-130 offering, but maybe making a comeback as an inbetween trainer, between the simple Yak-18 and the complex Yak-130.
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1071514.html
http://www.military-informant.com/n...ye-uchebno-trenirovochnye-samolety-sr-10.html
And of course tentative images of the Pantsyr-SM. Not sure about accuracy.
http://www.military-informant.com/n...ektivnogo-zenitnogo-kompleksa-pantsir-sm.html
Compared to their sister airframes in the Flanker series, I suppose. Or if we're going by role, then the Fencer. I didn't realise they were up past thirty, from the information I had there were some issues with slow production lines. Of course if you have better information and can share I'd be very grateful.
Haavarla, thanks for your information too, and I agree, these encounters will not end with the advent of Norwegian F-35s. I'm a firm believer in the aircraft but it doesn't mean certain entities are immediately going to stop poking around your airspace...