Russian Air Force News & Discussion

[Feanor]

Compared to their sister airframes in the Flanker series, I suppose. Or if we're going by role, then the Fencer. I didn't realise they were up past thirty, from the information I had there were some issues with slow production lines. Of course if you have better information and can share I'd be very grateful.

Haavarla, thanks for your information too, and I agree, these encounters will not end with the advent of Norwegian F-35s. I'm a firm believer in the aircraft but it doesn't mean certain entities are immediately going to stop poking around your airspace...

They have aircraft at Lipetsk, and aircraft at GLITs, a full regiment at Voronezh (24 serial Fullbacks, with one perserial being used for training) and a second regiment being re-armed right now. I'm not sure how far along they are, but Havaarlas number of 57 doesn't sound wrong.

According to MilitaryRussia, they're at 42 aircraft (33 serial ones) through the middle of 2013. If you add the rest of 2013, and 2014, we could easily have over 50 serial airframes. I don't recall seeing anything about a third regiment entering re-armament, but still. Depending on how many airframes they keep at GLITs and Lipetsk, they could start the 3rd regiment at 58 airframes.

NAPO had production problems in the 2006-2009 time frame. After that things changed rather drastically. The Russian government used the traditional method of throwing money at the problem to fix it. In this case it worked. NAPO management poached workers from elsewhere, including Ukrainian workers from Aviant in Kiev, and imported foreign machinery to modernize the production line. Consequently they can now spit out over a dozen aircraft a year without a hitch. As long as the money is there, that is. So we can expect more and more Fullbacks in coming years. Also there is some discrepancy. The newer ones carry Sorbtsiya pods in the wingtips, but the older ones don't. It's not clear whether all new-builds will have them.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Demonstrates the paramount importance of situational awareness. No way they pull that stunt when Norway fields it's F-35s.

That is correct, Norway is getting the A model and that GAU-22A would cut that poor booger in half! LOL Come on, the A model has been to 9.9 Gs positive, long past where it would have put you to sleep Barn, and has been flown to a 73 degree angle of attack, and recovered, without help from OVT, its a very good flying airplane, and at least as maneuverable as an F-18 or F-16, the pilots who have flown all three have very high praise for the F-35.

But we are off topic, and yes that is the new norm when conducting combat air patrols, that isn't anything we haven't seen before, and that kind of reckless throwing your aircraft in front of anothers combat air patrol, is kind of an act of desperation. Very sad that things have come to this again, but so be it?

 

[Air Force Brat]

Very small compared to what? They're far over 30 aircraft. Two line air regiments have taken deliveries (at least one is completely re-armed). Certainly enough to sortie a couple around Norway. Also they've made a practice of using their newest gear to show off. Like the Tu-214R doing patrols near Japan with two new Su-30M2s accompanying it.



There is a powerful inertia at work, with some high level officers in the VVS backing the MiG-31 upgrade and MiG-31 replacement project (allegedly MiG-41). I'm not sure why, but there seems to be an active desire to retain the capabilities of the MiG-31. Given what it is, I don't see very many likely threats it will counter, save maybe future Chinese bombers. But they may be thinking that they intend to use it as a platform for ASAT munitions (the Soviet-era project on the subject has been resumed and it used the MiG-31D), or a platform for very long range missiles intended to strike ELINT, AEW, or tankers.

Mind you, this is just my speculation. I don't know much for sure.

Thank you Feanor, I'll put my money on your speculation any day, and I very much appreciate the insight,,,I have wondered about that for some time, no doubt the ability to be very high and very fast make a great run and gun platform, and honestly, those same characteristics that give the Mig-31 munitions a performance increase, also make it very hard to defend against.

 

[KiwiRob]

Demonstrates the paramount importance of situational awareness. No way they pull that stunt when Norway fields it's F-35s.

Which are many many years away.

 

[Bonza]

That is correct, Norway is getting the A model and that GAU-22A would cut that poor booger in half! LOL Come on, the A model has been to 9.9 Gs positive, long past where it would have put you to sleep Barn, and has been flown to a 73 degree angle of attack, and recovered, without help from OVT, its a very good flying airplane, and at least as maneuverable as an F-18 or F-16, the pilots who have flown all three have very high praise for the F-35.

But we are off topic, and yes that is the new norm when conducting combat air patrols, that isn't anything we haven't seen before, and that kind of reckless throwing your aircraft in front of anothers combat air patrol, is kind of an act of desperation. Very sad that things have come to this again, but so be it?

None of those features are important to the situation portrayed in the video. The Russians will act however they wish to act regardless of what aircraft Norway is flying - it has nothing to do with the aircraft's capabilities, rather it is a show of force and political will, nothing more, nothing less. Perhaps the MiG-31 will have a harder time finding an F-35 to buzz in the first place but the aircraft's combat capabilities will have little effect on Russian air patrols in the region.

Feanor, thank you for the information on the SU-34, it seems I was far behind the times. If they can push out twelve airframes a year that's a great improvement on where they were previously. It's quite an impressive aircraft, imo.

 

[barney41]

My only intent was to highlight the importance of SA to the pilot. What he does with that knowledge is up to him on how to deal with the guy in the other cockpit.

 

[Air Force Brat]

My only intent was to highlight the importance of SA to the pilot. What he does with that knowledge is up to him on how to deal with the guy in the other cockpit.

I would say the Norwegian F-16 likely had very outstanding situational awareness, on a combat air patrol, you normally maintain your airspeed, heading, and altitude, just the way its done. Obviously the objective of the opposing team is to disrupt, interfere, and in extremis, they have flown vertical stabs through propellors, etc... both the Russians and Chinese have "upped the ante" in the last several years, of course protests are filed??? but at least in the F-16, you have a means of egress from the aircraft if some goofball does hit you, not so if its a commercial aircraft or P-8 for example??

Like everyone else, we fly intercepts and will continue to do so, but there is a very definitive protocol for a standard intercept, lots of pictures, possibly radio communications, sometimes even instructions. We usually fly a two ship, with one aircraft standing off, the other doing the actual intercept??

 

[Feanor]

None of those features are important to the situation portrayed in the video. The Russians will act however they wish to act regardless of what aircraft Norway is flying - it has nothing to do with the aircraft's capabilities, rather it is a show of force and political will, nothing more, nothing less. Perhaps the MiG-31 will have a harder time finding an F-35 to buzz in the first place but the aircraft's combat capabilities will have little effect on Russian air patrols in the region.

Exactly.

Feanor, thank you for the information on the SU-34, it seems I was far behind the times. If they can push out twelve airframes a year that's a great improvement on where they were previously. It's quite an impressive aircraft, imo.

The plan for this year is 14 aircraft. It remains to be seen if they meet it, but it's not unlikely. That having been said, the aircraft seem to have had some problems with their radar. Details are absent. The Su-34 has been used in combat, probably twice (once during the Georgian War, once against insurgents in the North Caucus), but there may have been other incidents. So... yeah. They can produce them in significant numbers.

 

[Haavarla]

Looks like those NK-32 engines will get a facelift soon.

http://military-industry.ru/aviation/3586

 

[Klaus]

As for the Su-34 there should be 57 series production aircraft and one pre-series machine in service by year end. According to an article written by Alexander Mladenov there are also 132 Su-24M/M2/MR left in VVS service. If production of new Su-34s continues at this rate it's going to take another 8 years or so to replace the remaining Fencers. Does Sukhoi have any plans for an updated Su-34 version? The current Su-34 is in fact already several years old and the basic model more than 20.

 

[alexkvaskov]

As for the Su-34 there should be 57 series production aircraft and one pre-series machine in service by year end. According to an article written by Alexander Mladenov there are also 132 Su-24M/M2/MR left in VVS service. If production of new Su-34s continues at this rate it's going to take another 8 years or so to replace the remaining Fencers. Does Sukhoi have any plans for an updated Su-34 version? The current Su-34 is in fact already several years old and the basic model more than 20.

I don't think the VVS is replacing the Fencers on a one-to-one basis with the Fullbacks. The original 2008 contract for 32 airframes was completed recently and OAK's now working on the 92 unit contract which, given enough cash, they should be able to pull off by the early 2020s. And yes, there was an upgrade mooted a while back - the Su-34M. I haven't come across any details however.

 

[Feanor]

I don't think the VVS is replacing the Fencers on a one-to-one basis with the Fullbacks. The original 2008 contract for 32 airframes was completed recently and OAK's now working on the 92 unit contract which, given enough cash, they should be able to pull off by the early 2020s. And yes, there was an upgrade mooted a while back - the Su-34M. I haven't come across any details however.

So far they're replacing VVS Su-24s one for one with Su-34s. The AVMF is replacing their Fencers with Su-30SMs. They may cut some Su-24 squadrons entirely, but so far they haven't done that. Now the Su-24MR is another story. I don't know what they intend to do there (the solution may be unmanned).

EDIT: So it should be 52 serial aircraft, if this info is correct. Also this means that they have 2 full regiments. One at Voronezh, one at Morozovsk. Two squadrons of 12 planes each. It's interesting that the two regiments, are right next to Ukraine. If you look at Morozovsk and Voronezh on GoogleMaps it literally looks like they're pointed at Ukraine. And while both Voronezh and Morozovsk are certainly near enough to be used in operations in the North Caucus (especially Voronezh) the placing looks interesting to say the least.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1089442.html

 

[Akula540]

The plan for this year is 14 aircraft. It remains to be seen if they meet it, but it's not unlikely.

According to the info I have, 14 was delivered 2013, the plan was 16 for this year and 20 for 2015. But there was some news that the plan for this year has been upgraded to 18. With the delivery yesterday, the current count for this year is already at 15 so it is either 1 or 3 to go. And from 2015 on it should be 20 machines per year.

 

[Haavarla]

Just to respond to the post above.
No i do not think the Su-34 will replace the Su-24M/M2 on a 1/1 level.

But it matters not, cause the Hellduck is much more capable vs the older Su-24M.

And now. Moar Su-34 deployd the Hq south district Russia.
This will put the current figure close to 70 units.
Not bad at all.

Sukhoi Company (JSC) - News - News

 

[Feanor]

Just to respond to the post above.
No i do not think the Su-34 will replace the Su-24M/M2 on a 1/1 level.

But it matters not, cause the Hellduck is much more capable vs the older Su-24M.

And now. Moar Su-34 deployd the Hq south district Russia.
This will put the current figure close to 70 units.
Not bad at all.

Sukhoi Company (JSC) - News - News

It wouldn't surprise me at all. The Su-34 is in production, and the rate of production is quite high. It's also not that expensive. There's a good chance they will keep buying it because they can.

 

[alexkvaskov]

RT reports that 53 Su-30 and 35 have been delivered this year.

http://youtu.be/c5QLd16X1Zg?t=5m20s

Seems very off to me. Isn't it more like 28-36? 12-16 Su-35 and 16-20 Su-30?

 

[Feanor]

RT reports that 53 Su-30 and 35 have been delivered this year.

http://youtu.be/c5QLd16X1Zg?t=5m20s

Seems very off to me. Isn't it more like 28-36? 12-16 Su-35 and 16-20 Su-30?

Two models of Su-30s are being bought. Su-30SM and Su-30M2. So while these numbers look a little higher, it's just that: a little. Also factories working on multi-year contracts have the ability to deliver contracted equipment early. For example UVZ has completed this years T-72B3 plan, and has already made deliveries on the tanks scheduled for next year (some of them anyways). So yeah... I've seen that number too by the way, and it did look a little odd.

 

[alexkvaskov]

Oh right, I forgot about the M2. But I think around six or so were delivered this year?.. That still doesn't take the total to anywhere near 53.

 

[Klaus]

As far as I know, the VVS and VMF received 8 Su-30M2, 18 Su-30SM and 12 Su-35 this year. More SU-30SM might have been delivered the last weeks, but I've read nothing about it. Next year they expect 30 Su-30SM and 14 Su-35.

 

[wsb05]

As far as I know, the VVS and VMF received 8 Su-30M2, 18 Su-30SM and 12 Su-35 this year. More SU-30SM might have been delivered the last weeks, but I've read nothing about it. Next year they expect 30 Su-30SM and 14 Su-35.

Very slow induction rate of Su-35. How big of an advantage is Su-35 vs. Su-30 SM