Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[meatshield]

I haven't seen this on any other media site so not sure how true it is. 4 P-8's for the RAAF.

Boeing wins $296 million initial deal for 12 more P-8 spy planes | Reuters

 

[t68]

I haven't seen this on any other media site so not sure how true it is. 4 P-8's for the RAAF.

Boeing wins $296 million initial deal for 12 more P-8 spy planes | Reuters

It might be the have taken up the option from when the deal was originally released, but not 100% sure

 

[John Newman]

I haven't seen this on any other media site so not sure how true it is. 4 P-8's for the RAAF.

Boeing wins $296 million initial deal for 12 more P-8 spy planes | Reuters

I believe it's actually an order by the US Government for the 'long lead' items for 12 more P-8A's, 8 for the USN and 4 for the RAAF (via FMS).

As far as I can remember the Government only announced back in April or May that there would be a commitment for 8 and an option for another 4, but I suspect we won't hear anything about the 4 options for probably at least until the new DWP or even later.

I would suggest these long lead items would be for the first 4 (of 8) to be ordered by the RAAF.

 

[Magoo]

Be interesting to see, if this does proceed, if the replacements for the BBJ's are standard A330's or fully fitted KC-30A's, I'd imagine that they wouldn't necessarily have to have the pods and boom fitted (bolt on, bolt off?), but as long as all the plumbing and other modifications are included, it would be a good way of having surge capacity to the KC-30A fleet available when required.

If one or both are configured for VIP duties the boom and pods would likely be retained, as they are not easy to "bolt on, bolt off" and they add little in the way of drag penalty.

If I remember right when the original purchased was announced, way back when, there was an option for another three airframes, so two extra will go most of the way to fulfilling that.

The options lapsed long ago. Airbus did offer an airframe a couple of years ago as part of a package with the C-295 for AIR 8000/2, but it wasn't enough to sway that competition.

 

[John Newman]

If one or both are configured for VIP duties the boom and pods would likely be retained, as they are not easy to "bolt on, bolt off" and they add little in the way of drag penalty.



The options lapsed long ago. Airbus did offer an airframe a couple of years ago as part of a package with the C-295 for AIR 8000/2, but it wasn't enough to sway that competition.

When I said 'bolt on, bolt' off I assumed that the fitment of the pods and boom would be a relatively straight forward procedure (of course assuming all the plumbing, wiring and attachment points were all installed on the airframes), I would have thought that during the regular operation and servicing of the aircraft that the pods and booms could be changed over for maintenance or if there is a problem with one of them, but as you are suggesting, it is a bit more complicated than that.

And yes I was aware that the option had lapsed long ago, and also the offer of a 'one off' a while back too.

What I was meaning was, that back in the beginning there was the option for an additional three airframes, which if exercised, would have bought the fleet size to eight.

So yes it good news that another two are likely to be purchased, but it is still one short of what I assume was the original requirement for eight.

 

[t68]

It seems the goverment is only waiting on a formal request from the Iraq goverment to get involved in the air campaign, according to this article basing would be from Turkey or Kuwait, I would imagine up to three MRTT would be involved as well a timely reminder that the AAR fleet needs to bolstered to Squadron level (12 aircraft) to keep a continuity of assets available overseas and continental Australia


Hornets first choice for Iraq

 

[weegee]

P-8A News

Hey guys,

I came across this the other day:
Defence Ministers » Minister for Defence – Australian P-8A Advanced Aircraft Contract executed by the United States Navy

Am i reading this correctly or reading too much into it by saying that we are jumping the queue again and getting some US productions slots? If we are that's great that we will probably be getting our planes earlier.
I always wonder why do the US branches seem so happy to do this for the RAAF? It happened with the C-17's the super hornets did it happen with any Herc's over the years? It just seems that they go above and beyond for the RAAF and the ADF as a whole.

 

[phreeky]

Probably because we commit those resources where the US would otherwise have to supply them anyway. Weren't we using US C-17s to transport a lot of stuff around before getting our own? And the gov seem willing to consider using the Super Hornets in Iraq if called upon. The P-8s is not the same in that us having them doesn't take the load off the US at all.

 

[Oberon]

Could also be because the US govt is trying to push expenditure to the right due to their budget and sovereign debt problems.

 

[Nick underscore]

RAAF C-130 currently operating aid drops for Amirli. Also C-17 being used for arms drop in Erbil, along with a few ADG's and SAS troopers.ISIS rebels shoot at RAAF C-130 Hercules with Australians on board

I know the USAAF are using 2 x C-17 and 2 x C-130 for similar roles to town of Amirli. Britian is using a C-130 from Cyprus. Are the French using A-400's or their C-130's, I cannot find anything specific on this detail, apart from participation in the activity itself?

I wonder whether one MRRT will go, if it's not already there?

 

[Magoo]

The reports by News Corpse of the RAAF C-130 being shot at was quickly dismissed by CDF and the PM this morning...

Apart from the Al Minhad milk-run, there are no KC-30s in theatre yet.

 

[Nick underscore]

The reports by News Corpse of the RAAF C-130 being shot at was quickly dismissed by CDF and the PM this morning...

Apart from the Al Minhad milk-run, there are no KC-30s in theatre yet.

Thanks Magoo. I like you CYA'd with 'yet'

May I ask, assuming the Shornets go (not saying they will), has any indication been made on numbers we are looking to deploy?

Further and not related to the above per se, but would an Orion add any value to capability matrix (ISTAR, if I have that correct), above an 'in-theatre' E-7A? Just curious and ignoring threat levels.

 

[ASSAIL]

Thanks Magoo. I like you CYA'd with 'yet'

May I ask, assuming the Shornets go (not saying they will), has any indication been made on numbers we are looking to deploy?

Further and not related to the above per se, but would an Orion add any value to capability matrix (ISTAR, if I have that correct), above an 'in-theatre' E-7A? Just curious and ignoring threat levels.

Question from someone with no experience in these matters - if combat aircraft are sent why risk our best to beat up ground forces, why not send legacy Hornets (still plenty in US service) and save our finest for a very long life?

 

[t68]

Question from someone with no experience in these matters - if combat aircraft are sent why risk our best to beat up ground forces, why not send legacy Hornets (still plenty in US service) and save our finest for a very long life?

Thought the same thing, as from what I can understand the legacy hornets are the same standard as USMC aircraft just with Australian standards comm sets?

 

[King Wally]

Question from someone with no experience in these matters - if combat aircraft are sent why risk our best to beat up ground forces, why not send legacy Hornets (still plenty in US service) and save our finest for a very long life?

I did read that the SH, if deployed, may likely be based out of Dubai, which when I look at a map looks like a hell of a long round trip to hit targets in Northern Iraq. The SH has longer range and extra underwing hardpoints compared to the Legacy so you can load it up with full drop tanks and still have room for plenty of munitions for such a long round trip. Maybe that is it?

Maybe the gov wants to keep justifying its recent big ticket F35A investment by indirectly implying the Legacy Hornets aren't up to the job anymore?

Maybe the gov is nervous about sending older 1980's era airframes into a harsh Iraqi environment where any bailout could see a RAAF Pilot paraded on the next IS execution upload?

I don't know really, but there's certainly a mixed range of things to consider particularly when you put your Government PR hat on.

 

[Magoo]

With its new comms, pod, EW, and new weapons, the classic Hornets probably could perform well in theatre. But why risk a 25-30 year old airframe which is going to struggle to get to its oft-revised LOT as it is, and which would probably be harder to support in-theatre.

The Supers with their longer endurance, greater payload, 100% US commonality, and with a WSO teeing up targets would add far more value, and with their better sensors and comms can also act as fast-FACs. If we send fast jets, I'd be looking to base them somewhere like Incirlik or Akrotiri... Al Minhad is 1500km from the southern end of the IS territory.

That said, personally I'd be surprised if we send any fast jets - more likely is one or two KC-30s, a couple of E-7s, maybe a Peacemate, maybe even some Herons.

 

[gf0012-aust]

If we send fast jets, I'd be looking to base them somewhere like Incirlik or Akrotiri... Al Minhad is 1500km from the southern end of the IS territory.

In bold.

will be dicey as the Turks have a threeway problem going on, I can't see them being keen for USAF/USN/NATO rotating out of there even if under a NATO umbrella

 

[Nick underscore]

If we send fast jets, I'd be looking to base them somewhere like Incirlik or Akrotiri... Al Minhad is 1500km from the southern end of the IS territory.

That said, personally I'd be surprised if we send any fast jets - more likely is one or two KC-30s, a couple of E-7s, maybe a Peacemate, maybe even some Herons.

Do RAAF still have a C-130H configured for peacemate or are these configured on a P-3C?

 

[t68]

Do RAAF still have a C-130H configured for peacemate or are these configured on a P-3C?

All H have been gifted to Indoneasia

 

[Nick underscore]

All H have been gifted to Indoneasia

Thanks. I knew officially Indonesia got the 4 + 5 and the was model stood down last year, but wasn't sure if RAAF still have the C-130 peacemate aircraft in use, considering it wasn't a transport and used as such. To my knowledge we only had 1 x C-130H and 1 x AP-3C. Hence my question, whether the Peacemate adds to the E-7A capability picture or is the tech duplicated?

EDIT; Not sure if this article/ author confused the C-130H as a 2nd EP-3C - http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/australian-orion-spy-exposed-65395/

Although a book by Andrew Tan - 'The Global Arms Trade' (2010) mentions that in 1994-98, the RAAF acquired two EP-3C Orion aircraft, specifically configured them for SIGINT and used them in Timor and the Gulf extensively. Reports that a C-130H was also configured.