Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[John Fedup]

Thanks Raven for the info. Hoping the next DWP accelerates a decision. 12 is enough.

I know Canadians regretted their decision (with hindsight) by offloading some of their D's to the Dutch, when they went F.

The six used Ds were acquired in 2008. One was lost and was replaced by a leased unit. I saw the reports of the impending sale in 2011 and many here thought they should have been kept but the DND said they were too worn out and expensive to maintain (likely feared a reduction in the number of new F versions). In any event, the last I heard the leased unit was returned to the USAF, one went to Canada and 4 were mothballed in Arizona. I am not aware of any Dutch sale of these D models. Perhaps you are referring to the C models Canada sold to the Netherlands in the early 1990s (which was a major mistake and why we had no helicopters for Afghanistan during the Kandahar mission in 2006.

 

[Nick underscore]

The six used Ds were acquired in 2008. One was lost and was replaced by a leased unit. I saw the reports of the impending sale in 2011 and many here thought they should have been kept but the DND said they were too worn out and expensive to maintain (likely feared a reduction in the number of new F versions). In any event, the last I heard the leased unit was returned to the USAF, one went to Canada and 4 were mothballed in Arizona. I am not aware of any Dutch sale of these D models. Perhaps you are referring to the C models Canada sold to the Netherlands in the early 1990s (which was a major mistake and why we had no helicopters for Afghanistan during the Kandahar mission in 2006.

I think you're right, but I thought Canada had converted seven C's to D's prior (94) to hand over to the Dutch AF in 96'. Is this correct?Canadian Forces Chinooks

"US serial 74-22061 assigned, never marked while with Canadian Forces. With No. 447 Squadron at CFB Namao, Alberta and No. 450 Squadron at CFB Uplands, Ontario...
.....Converted by Boeing to CH-47D from 1994, new US serial 93-0662, conversion number M.3662, new company number B726. Delivered to R. Netherlands Air Force, on 5 April 1996 their serial number NL002, later D-662. Named "Lady Liberty". Operated by 298 Squadron, in Afghanistan by 2006. Still active November 2008."

Too old as you say

 

[John Fedup]

I think you're right, but I thought Canada had converted seven C's to D's prior (94) to hand over to the Dutch AF in 96'. Is this correct?Canadian Forces Chinooks

"US serial 74-22061 assigned, never marked while with Canadian Forces. With No. 447 Squadron at CFB Namao, Alberta and No. 450 Squadron at CFB Uplands, Ontario...
.....Converted by Boeing to CH-47D from 1994, new US serial 93-0662, conversion number M.3662, new company number B726. Delivered to R. Netherlands Air Force, on 5 April 1996 their serial number NL002, later D-662. Named "Lady Liberty". Operated by 298 Squadron, in Afghanistan by 2006. Still active November 2008."

Too old as you say

It is unclear, to me at least, if these Cs were first converted to Ds by Boeing and then shipped to the Netherlands after conversion and which country actually paid for the conversions. It seems incredible that we would have converted them first and then sold them but then again we are talking about a government that cancelled a previous EH101 order in 1992 and paid a 500 million dollar fine so maybe we converted our CH-47Cs to CH47Ds so we could waste more money. As for being too old, the history of some of the serial numbers makes one wonder how many times these machines can be rebuilt and how long they can soldier on for.

 

[Trackmaster]

The 7 network has just run a story that talked about another two tankers, following the release of the White Paper.
The Minister was interviewed talking them up.
Are we talking tankers....or an interesting order to replace the 737 VIP jets with dual-tasked A330s?

 

[hauritz]

The 7 network has just run a story that talked about another two tankers, following the release of the White Paper.
The Minister was interviewed talking them up.
Are we talking tankers....or an interesting order to replace the 737 VIP jets with dual-tasked A330s?

Are your sure they weren't talking about new tankers for the navy?

 

[Trackmaster]

Are your sure they weren't talking about new tankers for the navy?

Interview was filmed in an A-330...The Minister was talking about the "success" of the program. There was vision from the aircraft of a Hornet tanking.
The pilot was also interviewed...naturally, he said he would like a lot more.

 

[StobieWan]

It is unclear, to me at least, if these Cs were first converted to Ds by Boeing and then shipped to the Netherlands after conversion and which country actually paid for the conversions. It seems incredible that we would have converted them first and then sold them but then again we are talking about a government that cancelled a previous EH101 order in 1992 and paid a 500 million dollar fine so maybe we converted our CH-47Cs to CH47Ds so we could waste more money. As for being too old, the history of some of the serial numbers makes one wonder how many times these machines can be rebuilt and how long they can soldier on for.

One of the UK's Chinooks was a brand new bird in the FI conflict, one of a few to come off Atlantic Conveyor if I recall, flew throughout Afghanistan and was then reworked again. Still going strong.

 

[MickB]

One of the UK's Chinooks was a brand new bird in the FI conflict, one of a few to come off Atlantic Conveyor if I recall, flew throughout Afghanistan and was then reworked again. Still going strong.

Bravo November, It was the subject of a recent documentry.

 

[StobieWan]

That's the one - Mike Brewer doing the chatting - and he had a particular affection for the beast as he'd been in it in 'Ghan when it acquired some more ventilation, courtesy of Terry Taliban.

 

[John Fedup]

One of the UK's Chinooks was a brand new bird in the FI conflict, one of a few to come off Atlantic Conveyor if I recall, flew throughout Afghanistan and was then reworked again. Still going strong.

The Chinook is indeed an impressive machine which likely is the reason no true replacement has been built. I believe I read somewhere that a enlarged version of the Chinook design was under consideration.

 

[uuname]

Are we talking tankers....or an interesting order to replace the 737 VIP jets with dual-tasked A330s?

I found a report of two tankers, one in VIP configuration. Also mentioned are one or two more C-17s.

HUNDREDS of millions of dollars will be spent bolstering the RAAF’s fleet — and the prime minister is in line for a new long-range jet, promising uninterrupted global travel.
The government plan — scheduled to be delivered as part of next year’s Defence White Paper — includes the purchase of up to four new aircraft: an additional two Airbus tanker-transport planes and one or two Boeing C-17 heavy lift aircraft.
One of the Airbus KC-30A multi-role tanker transports would be converted to a VIP configuration and would service the prime minister’s international travel needs.

http://www.news.com.au/national/pri...-on-airbus-kc30a/story-fncynjr2-1227023370734

No Cookies | Herald Sun

Given the other urgent needs in defense combined with the poor budget situation, a large spend like this does seem a little surprising.

I suppose that if the Prime Minister is terribly unhappy with his current transportation, the "VIP tanker" might be pushed through as an easy (less likely to get bad press) way to get a new plane.

As for another C-17... With the line closing, I guess is seen as the last chance to get another? I know they are getting quite a bit of use, but is it really a priority?

 

[Magoo]

The SPA fleet is due for renewal anyway, so saying that the PM is "terribly unhappy" is just silly.

The KC-30 and C-17 give Australia a non-kinetic strategic reach and global presence, the diplomatic weight of which cannot be underestimated. Just look at the images of the three C-17s and one KC-30 on the ramp at Eindhoven in recent weeks!

The old adage of "you can never have too much airlift" will always apply.

But yes, so much for Joe's "budget emergency"!

 

[the road runner]

The KC-30 and C-17 give Australia a non-kinetic strategic reach and global presence, the diplomatic weight of which cannot be underestimated. Just look at the images of the three C-17s and one KC-30 on the ramp at Eindhoven in recent weeks!

Was great to see the C-17 in Japan after the Tsunami flying the flag for Australia.
Look at how close our countries have become in the last year.
Joe would have a moth fly out of his wallet if he ever opened it!

 

[John Newman]

Well if we still had Bowen and 'the worlds best treasurer' Swan at the helm we probably would have a Budget emergency! Anyway......

Be interesting to see, if this does proceed, if the replacements for the BBJ's are standard A330's or fully fitted KC-30A's, I'd imagine that they wouldn't necessarily have to have the pods and boom fitted (bolt on, bolt off?), but as long as all the plumbing and other modifications are included, it would be a good way of having surge capacity to the KC-30A fleet available when required.

If I remember right when the original purchased was announced, way back when, there was an option for another three airframes, so two extra will go most of the way to fulfilling that.

As for the C-17A's, I remember seeing something the other week that the last C-17A has come off the production line at Boeing (assume it would be one of the '10 white tails' that Boeing committed to building?).

If the Government is interested in another one or two, I'd imagine that some discussions would already be underway if they are serious.

Wouldn't want to wail till mid next year for the new DWP to be announced and find out that all the white tails were sold!!!


EDIT: Actually I don't think the last C-17A is due off the production line till next year sometime, maybe it was the last to enter the production line, can't find the story I read recently!!

 

[old faithful]

I wouldnt be too concerned about if we get them, I was told in August last year that we were looking at getting one, maybe two more C17,s, posted the news in another thread. Although the MRTT are a bit of a surprise.

 

[jack412]

I understand that when the PM is on board his VIP jet. The call sign changes to Lizard-1

 

[old faithful]

I understand that when the PM is on board his VIP jet. The call sign changes to Lizard-1

Why would you post that?

Bet its not Lizard 1 for long.......now
(or did I miss a joke?)

 

[Volkodav]

Why would you post that?

Bet its not Lizard 1 for long.......now
(or did I miss a joke?)

I always thought Keating was the "Lizard of Aus", dubbed as such by the UK press for touching the Queen.

 

[hauritz]

Airbus offered Australia a sixth MRTT for a discount price a couple of years back. It was originally built for the for their failed USAF tanker replacement bid. I wonder if it is still available.

 

[pkcasimir]

[B]EDIT: Actually I don't think the last C-17A is due off the production line till next year sometime, maybe it was the last to enter the production line, can't find the story I read recently!![/QUOTE][

As of the end of July, 2014, there were 10 C-17As on the Boeing production line at their Long Beach plant. No more C-17s will be built after these ten are completed. Number 279 is the last C-17A.The production line will close in the summer of 2015.

Boeing states that it does not have committed orders for these last ten planes. Whether something is being negotiated wouldn't be revealed until the Pentagon announces it.