The guns were removed in early 2011 for storage. No idea why though.
Indonesia: 'green water navy'
- Thread starter Supe
- Start date
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
At last some (good) news about the Nakhoda Ragam Class, thank you for sharing Koxinga!Nakhoda Ragman Corvettes Being Prepared for Indonesian Navy | Demotix.com
NR refitted with OTO Melara. The actual installation was observed and recorded by a local reporter.
The 76 mm guns are placed back, im now wonder about the other weaponsystems, for example if the Seawolf missiles are already replaced with the MICA VL.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Even better news!
The crew which will pick up the first of the Nakhoda Ragam Class corvettes, the KRI Bung Tomo 357, will leave soon to bring the ship to Indonesia around September 2014.
See Calon Awak KRI Bung Tomo-357 Ziarah ke Makam Nasional Bung Tomo | Strategi Militer Indonesia - Informasi Pertahanan dan Keamanan NKRI
So the first ship will get the number directly after the Achmad Yani Class ship KRI Karel Satsuitubun 356.
The crew which will pick up the first of the Nakhoda Ragam Class corvettes, the KRI Bung Tomo 357, will leave soon to bring the ship to Indonesia around September 2014.
See Calon Awak KRI Bung Tomo-357 Ziarah ke Makam Nasional Bung Tomo | Strategi Militer Indonesia - Informasi Pertahanan dan Keamanan NKRI
So the first ship will get the number directly after the Achmad Yani Class ship KRI Karel Satsuitubun 356.
The gun was removed in 2007 to preserve them, so they can be maintain in the grounds without so much man hour needed like when they are in the ships in which needed more crew attached to the ship which is considerable expensive for the company to afford it. And as you can see in the pictures, the gun which is installed again was in prime condition.
BTW, all the guns right now has been installed. And one of the ship will come to Indonesia in August.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Do you heard on the progress for VL MICA ? Not much heard on that after the official statement they will replace VL Seawolf with VL MICA. Afterall Mindef in their statement in the Media confirm that previous last hurdle before sign contract on those NR is the matter of VL Seawolf replacement.
The guns were removed in early 2011, not 2007. Just go to flickr, do a search for "Bruneian corvettes", "Nakhoda Ragam", "Barrow corvettes".
You will find plenty of photos from 2008, 2009, 2010 showing the corvettes with their main 'A' gun installed. Based on my analysis on all the available photos online (flickr and some others), I surmised that the gap which the guns were removed was between late (Nov) 2010 to early 2011 (Feb) for storage.
Externally speaking, the guns were worn and need a new paint job based on the recent installation. The storage provider is just a normal storage company (Steeles Storage and Haulage).
As for whether they will get their MICA's, I am honestly not sure. I presume this would require work at a sheltered facility at BAE as I think Ramsden Dock is not exactly ideal to do such work. Despite the suggested compatibility, there are no ship floating right now that have their VL Seawolf replaced with VL MICA. That means an extensive testing and certification regime would certainly be required. If the ships are to be delivered mid-year, I am not certain how the schedule can be achieved.
edit:
The current address of the corvettes are ADEB Berth, Cavendish Dock Road, BARROW-IN-FURNESS, Cumbria, LA14 2LA.
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As long as i know, from several local sources has mentioned about the acquisition of VL MICA had been budgeted by MoD. The matter if they has been installed or not in the corvettes right now, i doesn't know very much.
Thanks for correction.
I think six months is quite a fair time to installed VL MICA, do some wiring and installing some software works, and ensure all of the missile are in working order, because one of the ship will be delivered in August and rest of them will follow. Maybe this is one of the reason, not all of them will be delivered in the same time.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
[nomedia]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-7GteSxXIEg[/nomedia]
From angkasa readers community site. They put video on You Tube for Indonesian ASW helicopter demo. The demo part of eastern fleet demo in Surabaya. The demo seems show clarification on the type of ASW helicopter being chooses by Indonesian Navy as the long awaited replacement for Wasp ASW helicopter being procured in the 80's second hand from Dutch Navy in conjunction with Van Speijck Frigates.
The chooses of Panther as ASW helicopter already being speculated for some time on local media and forum. This also show growing strength on IAe and Eurocopter (and off course EADS), as factor on determining Indonesian Armed procurement.
From angkasa readers community site. They put video on You Tube for Indonesian ASW helicopter demo. The demo part of eastern fleet demo in Surabaya. The demo seems show clarification on the type of ASW helicopter being chooses by Indonesian Navy as the long awaited replacement for Wasp ASW helicopter being procured in the 80's second hand from Dutch Navy in conjunction with Van Speijck Frigates.
The chooses of Panther as ASW helicopter already being speculated for some time on local media and forum. This also show growing strength on IAe and Eurocopter (and off course EADS), as factor on determining Indonesian Armed procurement.
I thought it has not been chosen? Could it be an marketing effort by Eurocopter?
In other news, it seems that the offer for used Kilos have been declined, after inspections show that they were essentially, junks.
TNI AL Batal Beli Kapal Selam Rusia
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Well someone already put in his Twitter or blogspot ( his id david sukma if not mistaken) a photo of Panther with Indonesian Navy attribute. I don't know if this is the same Panther that make demo.
The thought that this is only demo from eurocopter also occured to me before, but considering this demo is in front of the President (SBY), and the demo supposedly show curent navy equipment, then I rather tend to believe the Panther already in the inventory but not being introduced officially.
As for Kilo, well it's ben around for sometime. The initial offered was to procured new one, then followed by procurement of ex Russian Navy Kilo but wich will be then completely refurbished.
From what I heard, the condition of offreed second hand Kilo is quite deteriorated, that refurbished them close to buy new one. This offered being look at since some elements in the Parliament (especially from Opposition which traditionally have strong lobbyists relationship with Russia), keep complaining with Korean 209 (changbogo) deal.
They help the Russian offering for this used but refurbished Kilo as alternative in fullfiling 12 subs ambitions of Indonesian Navy, for 2020+.The thingking that even with full ToT of 209CBG, it will only provide 6 at most of those 209CBG by 2020, thus Kilo will supplement the rest 6.
Can still continue to happen (the Kilo's scenario) ? Well it can, especially if the opposition win the next ellection. However can only be potential at best if the present administration able to keep the power after next ellection.
The thought that this is only demo from eurocopter also occured to me before, but considering this demo is in front of the President (SBY), and the demo supposedly show curent navy equipment, then I rather tend to believe the Panther already in the inventory but not being introduced officially.
As for Kilo, well it's ben around for sometime. The initial offered was to procured new one, then followed by procurement of ex Russian Navy Kilo but wich will be then completely refurbished.
From what I heard, the condition of offreed second hand Kilo is quite deteriorated, that refurbished them close to buy new one. This offered being look at since some elements in the Parliament (especially from Opposition which traditionally have strong lobbyists relationship with Russia), keep complaining with Korean 209 (changbogo) deal.
They help the Russian offering for this used but refurbished Kilo as alternative in fullfiling 12 subs ambitions of Indonesian Navy, for 2020+.The thingking that even with full ToT of 209CBG, it will only provide 6 at most of those 209CBG by 2020, thus Kilo will supplement the rest 6.
Can still continue to happen (the Kilo's scenario) ? Well it can, especially if the opposition win the next ellection. However can only be potential at best if the present administration able to keep the power after next ellection.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
I think its the right decision, in stead of buying old worn out subs for very cheap, its better to save money first for a while and if you have enough than buy brand new ones.
The Russian Navy has a reason to get rid of these two old subs, after all why do they ordered six new Project 636 subs if they already have two stored Project 877s?
But maybe the AS565 Panther is a good choice, i expect its cheaper than the Westland Super Lynx 300 or NH-90.
Whether or not the Kilo is ''junk'', operating both Type 209s and Kilos would be a logistical nightmare for the TNI-AL and would not make any sense.
Maybe but it depends largely on the avionics and sensors fit. If an operator wanted a Panther to perform roles which do not call for a radar, ESM and other stuff, my guess is that a Panther would certainly be cheaper than a Super Lynx.
I have learned that TNI does not share that view of "logistic nightmare". To them, the cost of having two different types of platform is viewed as a strategic asset, at the expense of cost and possibly, lower operational availability.
Standardization around a single platform mere makes them vulnerable to sanctions. It makes for an interesting discussion by itself, that such a paranoid still exist.
True but it will also result in 2 separate show training and support infrastructures [including simulators] having to be set up: an expensive and unnecessary affair. Thousands of parts, plus different torps, will have to be stocked.
So it's "vulnerable to sanctions" vs "logistic nightmare". I think TNI prefers "logistic nightmare". Because sanctions are international political decisions that TNI doesn't have their hands on. They have to rely on the diplomats at the UN. They have to rely on the president's behavior on the international stage. As nightmare as it is, logistics is something that TNI can directly manage.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
It will be indeed expensive, but TNI has learnt from the past, the sanctions and weapon embargo after 1999.
Take a look at India, they have both the Project 877EKM Paltus and Type 209 subs.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
About the BTR-4 order (Ukraine to supply 50 BTR-4 armoured personnel carriers to Naval Forces of Indonesia (TNI AL)), looking to the political situation in Ukraine, is there a chance that this acquisition will be delayed or even cancelled? Any news about it?
Before that - IIRC there was a complete cessation of support for Soviet weapons in the 1960s.