Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Ananda]

Badan Sarana Pertahanan Kementerian Pertahanan RI



Based on this inspection report, has the first unit of the PKR been laid down at Vlissingen? If so, when?

From what I can gather from various sources in here, the Damen's PKR modules begin the work approximately late last year. Parallel the other modules also begin the work in simmilar timing on Damen Rumanian facilities and PT. PAL facilities in Surabaya. All 6 modules then will be join for final assembly in Surabaya.

 

[Ananda]

PT.PAL dan Pemenuhan Alutsista TNI-AL

First PKR modules work distribution between PT. PAL and Damen Group. From arc web sites. The bridge and electronics/sendors module will be worked on Damen Vlissingen facility, the mid hull/engineering module worked by Damen Rumanian facility. The rest 4 modules by PAL facility in Surabaya. On the second PKR, PAL workshare will increased to 5 modules. Presumably the module that worked in Rumania on the first PKR will be handle by PAL on the second one.

This article on arc, create another confusion. Previously sources including the ones that koxinga quote above indicating the work of modules already begin. However arc stated PAL source that the work will begin next year and all the modules including 2 modules from Damen will be send to Surabaya in 2015 for overall integration and finishing.

However I tend to take previous sources that indicating the work of the first PKR will take 3 years, with the first 2 years build the modules, and the third year integrations the modules and finishing. For that seems the work 'should' already begin this year, 'if' the finishing and integrations of modules schedulled 2015.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

PT.PAL dan Pemenuhan Alutsista TNI-AL

First PKR modules work distribution between PT. PAL and Damen Group. From arc web sites. The bridge and electronics/sendors module will be worked on Damen Vlissingen facility, the mid hull/engineering module worked by Damen Rumanian facility. The rest 4 modules by PAL facility in Surabaya. On the second PKR, PAL workshare will increased to 5 modules. Presumably the module that worked in Rumania on the first PKR will be handle by PAL on the second one.

This article on arc, create another confusion. Previously sources including the ones that koxinga quote above indicating the work of modules already begin. However arc stated PAL source that the work will begin next year and all the modules including 2 modules from Damen will be send to Surabaya in 2015 for overall integration and finishing.

However I tend to take previous sources that indicating the work of the first PKR will take 3 years, with the first 2 years build the modules, and the third year integrations the modules and finishing. For that seems the work 'should' already begin this year, 'if' the finishing and integrations of modules schedulled 2015.

As far as i know, the start of the construction of the first modules was indeed in the beginning of this year. I think ARC just made a small typing error.

These pictures i made a couple of days ago at Juanda, Surabaya.
P-860 (former AX-2339) of Puspenerbal during a touch and go exercise.
As far as i know, its the first and until now the only CN235 in the world with winglets!

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Just some questions...
The delivery of the first KCR-60M was planned for December 2013, any news about it?
And also from the beginning it was planned that the KCR-40 were armed with a AK-630 and C-705 missiles. Whats the status of these boats, are they still equipped with only a Denel Vektor G12 20mm gun?

 

[kensama]

Mindef press release yesterday about Submarines, It seems the Acquisition of Kilo class submarine mention since several years ago will materialize.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Mindef press release yesterday about Submarines, It seems the Acquisition of Kilo class submarine mention since several years ago will materialize.

Do you have a link?
At Indonesia borong kapal selam dari Rusia | merdeka.com they only say that "there are plans to buy an amount of Kilo subs".

 

[Ananda]

Election Year

Guys, May I suggest to treat this news as unconfirmed one. The talk of Kilo's acquisitions alrwady been around since 2006. However so far the budget that already confirmed for Submarines is for 3 Korean 209/CBG.

Personally I'm rather carefully watch the news or comments from Politicians this days. Elections only few months ahead, we entering Political year, sadly all things can be used as political bargain and counter bargain including defense projects.

The talk 'rumoured' based on the need for Indonesian navy acquires more than just 5 209 (2 existing and 3 builds). Also like I said Rosoboron or elements that sympathize with 'non western' interest did manage to lobby some factions in parliament for more non western acquisitions on balancing the assets. This Kilo supposed refurbished ex Russian assets thus being hoped can be transfered much faster than building new ones. Other 'rumous' said this is just preliminary deals, that the real deals is Russian ToT for PAL involvement with Amur projects.

Still unless the contracts being signed, and the budget allocated like the CBG projects, then again I treat this as only 'wishfull' interests.

 

[Ananda]

Just some questions...
The delivery of the first KCR-60M was planned for December 2013, any news about it?
And also from the beginning it was planned that the KCR-40 were armed with a AK-630 and C-705 missiles. Whats the status of these boats, are they still equipped with only a Denel Vektor G12 20mm gun?

So far I haven't seen any KCR that already equiped with missiles and AK-630. Those two armaments so far still the plan for ultimate equipment on KCR-40.

 

[kensama]

sorry i can't post any link yet (not enough posting :cry ), but you can visit official site of Ministry of Defence media center at dmc.kemhan.go.id , the press release news is available in their website. This is new development, although rumors about Kilo subs have been circulating for quite some time. this is the first official statement from mindef after so many years. Talks in local forum said that the previous plan to acquire Kilo class are on hold because the Russians are unwilling to supply the Klub-S missiles. But right now after long negotiations the Russians counterpart are willing to include the Klub-S into their offer. the news are also available in local Kompas newspaper on saturday. the plan is to buy used one or new one.

But i agree with Ananda, until contract has been signed we should not see this as a done deal.

 

[Ananda]

Menhan Bantah Beli Kapal Selam untuk Hadapi Ancaman Australia - Kompas.com

Let me help to put the link. Again for me is still far from definite. They are talking about getting team to Russia for inspections. On this news, the Minister talks about getting refurbished ex Russian Navy Kilo. Then again other sources talk about getting new ones.

Still if anything come out from the inspections team, thrn they have to go back to the table for further negotiations..then getting budget..more definite extra budget since from official budget for 2014 no mention of Submarine from Russia, but only mention batch of payments to further complete budgets for Korean build subs..

Then talk to parliament, which by that time can be on recess due to ellection preparations..this mean if any procurement can occurs it might need approval from next government. That's big 'if' since nobody can guarantees next government will follow present administrations procurement plan.

We're talking big budget in here. Look on how much time it take to 'sealed' budget for Korean build subs. I'm not holding my breath if this deal can get through by present administrations. If it can, then it means a lot of political back bargain has to be conclude.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

on Wiki i saw this
Class Ship Name Hull Numbers Service years

Nakhoda Ragam class corvette KRI John Lie 000 2013-2014 ... ... ...
Nakhoda Ragam class corvette KRI Usman-Harun 000 2013-2014 ... ... ...
Nakhoda Ragam class corvette KRI Bung Tomo 000 2013-2014 ...

They already got names! Whats true about this?

 

[Ananda]

PAL Indonesia Luncurkan KCR 60 Meter Rancangan dan Produk Anak Bangsa | PT PAL Indonesia (Persero)

PT. PAL, launch it's first FMB (KCR) 60. This is the second domestic build and designed Fast Missile Boats program, with Palindo KCR 40 being the first program (The first PAL manufactured FMB is a Lursen 57 design).

Indonesian Navy choose to take both competing FMB design, rather than choose one. The contracts also so far being divided equally with Palindo KCR 40 got 3 contract (all 3 already launched and fitting), whille PAL KCR 60 also got 3 contracts.

Both FMB/KCR will be equiped with Chinese C-705 SSM, which planed to be manufactured under license in Indonesia. KCR 60 being larger than KCR 40 planned to be fitted with larger main gun (Bofors 57mm) vs KCR 40 AK-630 CIWS as planned main gun.

Rumours in local forum circulated that by end of this year, KCR 40 will be fitted with the intended armaments. However so far no official confirmation yet.

 

[Ananda]

on Wiki i saw this
Class Ship Name Hull Numbers Service years

Nakhoda Ragam class corvette KRI John Lie 000 2013-2014 ... ... ...
Nakhoda Ragam class corvette KRI Usman-Harun 000 2013-2014 ... ... ...
Nakhoda Ragam class corvette KRI Bung Tomo 000 2013-2014 ...

They already got names! Whats true about this?

Those are the names that originally being circulated on local forum. Still no official confirmation. Officially first ex NR light frigates planned to enter Indonesian Navy operations sometime next year.

 

[koxinga]

For the KCR-60, was the contract awarded only to PT PAL and not Palindo? I understand they have slightly different designs for the KCR-60 programme.

 

[Ananda]

For the KCR-60, was the contract awarded only to PT PAL and not Palindo? I understand they have slightly different designs for the KCR-60 programme.

So far PAL got the contract for KCR 60 and Palindo for KCR 40. KCR 60 is PAL design, while Palindo design is KCR 40. Those are two final design that got approval for KCR program.

There are talk about other shipyard can get contract to work on KCR program, however if it does, then the design still based on PAL KCR 60 and Palindo KCR 40.

On the picture below, the 641 is KCR 40 (which is 250 ton design) and 628 is KCR 60 (which is 460 ton design).

 

[Ananda]

News - Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding

FIRST STEEL CUTTING Kapal Perusak Kawal Rudal (PKR)

From Indonesian State Enterprise Ministry website, official specification for PKR (Light Frigate) Sigma 10514 based. First steel cutting (for PT. PAL modules) conducted 16th January 2014. As mentioned before, the whole projects involved 6 modules, with 4 modules build by PT. PAL which also conducted final assembly.

Officially it is confirm the ships will have 12 VLS launcher (which from other news), being confirm as VL Mica. Currently the contract confirm for 2 ships, although this statement from the ministry told the overall project will be 4 ships.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia's PT PAL looks to foreign partner for submarine repair - IHS Jane's 360

PT. PAL, looking for foreign partner for overhauled one of 2 Indonesian current submarine. KRI Cakra, the oldest submarine in current inventory was having her last overhauled and upgrade in 2006 with DSME. Whille her sister KRI Nenggala has justfinish her uupgraded and modernisation with DSME, last year.

This plan overhauled has prompted some local analyst that used this as platform for 'anti' DSME, by questioning DSME work quality. However for me, this are accusations with dubious basis considering:
1. The last overhauled conducting by DSME was 2006 or 8 years ago. For a 3 decade old submarine the intervall of 8 years between overhaul still considered acceptable.
2. The length of Cakra last overhauled is not as extensive as her sister. Considering Cakra overhauled take 2 years (2004-2006), while her sister take 4 years (2009-20013). During that time Cakra must take assignment that should be divided for 2 Subs. For that her operational duty quite extensive during her sister refit.

No secret that some local analyst has shown 'remorse' for DSME, simply because they considered DSME less quality workmanship than their prefered champion HDW.

Just like I said, dubious accusation for sub par local analyst.

 

[koxinga]

Nakhoda Ragman Corvettes Being Prepared for Indonesian Navy | Demotix.com

NR refitted with OTO Melara. The actual installation was observed and recorded by a local reporter.

 

[swerve]

They were built with those guns. Does anyone know why the turrets were removed? More secure storage? Overhaul?

 

[Ananda]

Seems weapons system from those 3 vessels being put on the stored since 2007, when the ships being berth at Barrow. The report from Indonesian Navy team that check the conditions on the ships in 2012 indicated that all ships system and electronics are in good conditions, minus weapon system which being stored on shore.