Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Ananda]

The timing on next procurement for Indonesian Armed Forces, I do believe is much fluid right now. The potential of the Opposition will create next administration is getting stronger, but it's also can't discounted the present political factions will not continue hold to the power after next ellection.

Potential Russian influence on next stages of procurement will be higher with the opposition, which traditionally less inclined for Western made assets. Still with the momentum for local Industry involvement on armed forces procurement is getting stronger, and I do believe it's politically irreversible even with the opposition hold next administration.

In such projects with local Industry involvement will still be there. Russian subs for example will still only going to be second alternative toward Korean 209 projects, due to involvement on PAL for the 3rd subs (and potentially onward). Russian manufacturer is less inclined on providing license build Subs project (look the example on Indian and Chinese procurement on Russian subs). For that politically if the projects with Korea on license build subs with PAL did come to fruition, then next subs procurement will be hard politically to sell unles involved domestic license build project.

That's why EADS and Eurocopter will going continue have strong position as long as they have strong relationship with IAe. Whether Panther is better or not ASW platform or cheaper or not compared to say Super Lynx, it's secondary to IAe and Eurocopter deal.

This BTR-4 deal remain to be seen, but if more procurement then this initial 5 they procured will happen or not, going to influence heavily in my opinion not just the trial performance result, but also if the Ukrainian can make deal with Pindad.

 

[Ananda]

SAAB Involvement on Indonesian Klewang Stealth FMB

DSA 2014: Details of Indonesia's new stealthy missile patrol craft revealed - IHS Jane's 360

From Jane's, the Saab Indonesian representative indicating on DSA that Saab will actively involved with Indonesian North Sea Boat on construction on KRI Klewang Stealth Missile boats, which destroyed in 2012 during fire incidents.

Seems Saab involvement will be on armament, electronics and composites materials. The previous composites materials being accused by the Navy as one of the reason the fire getting out of hand fastly.

Involvement of Saab, undoubtedly improved the quality than previous Klewang, but I bet also increased the cost. Wandering though how much it will cost more.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

DSA 2014: Details of Indonesia's new stealthy missile patrol craft revealed - IHS Jane's 360

From Jane's, the Saab Indonesian representative indicating on DSA that Saab will actively involved with Indonesian North Sea Boat on construction on KRI Klewang Stealth Missile boats, which destroyed in 2012 during fire incidents.

Seems Saab involvement will be on armament, electronics and composites materials. The previous composites materials being accused by the Navy as one of the reason the fire getting out of hand fastly.

Involvement of Saab, undoubtedly improved the quality than previous Klewang, but I bet also increased the cost. Wandering though how much it will cost more.

Thank you for posting.
North Sea Boats is now working of the second of the class, does it means Saab is already involved with this one or will it begin with the next/third vessel?
Its still unclear what caused the fire which totally destruct the first trimaran......
For some reason ive the feeling that it was a sabotage action...

 

[koxinga]

Thank you for posting.
North Sea Boats is now working of the second of the class, does it means Saab is already involved with this one or will it begin with the next/third vessel?
Its still unclear what caused the fire which totally destruct the first trimaran......
For some reason ive the feeling that it was a sabotage action...

North Sea Boats (PT. Lundin) and SAAB working on an improved 63m FMPV Trimaran

 

[Ananda]

Thank you for posting.
North Sea Boats is now working of the second of the class, does it means Saab is already involved with this one or will it begin with the next/third vessel?
Its still unclear what caused the fire which totally destruct the first trimaran......
For some reason ive the feeling that it was a sabotage action...

My link and Koxinga link already show that they (Saab) involvement with the project, begin with the first replacement of Klewang. This show Lundin switch on project assistance to Sabb will be through and substantial.

 

[madokafc]

Lenta.ru:

Indonesia interested in Russian submarine "Amur-1650"

Indonesian Navy Command has expressed interest in Russian diesel-electric submarines "Amur-1650". On this, as reported by ITAR-TASS news agency, said the director of "Rosoboronexport" roving Nicholas Dimidyuk. According to him, the Indonesian delegation announced the interest during the inspection of the Russian exposition at the international exhibition DSA-2014 in Malaysia.

However, the plan of Indonesian military to begin negotiations on the purchase still not specified. Earlier, the Ministry of Defence of Indonesia led negotiations with Russia on the purchase of second-hand submarines of Project 877 "Halibut". Russia has offered these ships to Indonesian military in August 2013. Later Indonesia declared its refusal to purchase them as military did not satisfy with their technical condition.

If Indonesia decides to purchase new Russian submarines, they will be supplied as part of an export credit of one billion dollars, issued by Moscow and Jakarta in 2007. On the resources of the loan, Indonesia planned to buy Mi-17, Mi-35M, infantry fighting vehicles BMP-3F and submarines of Project 877 "Halibut". Part of the equipment was purchased by Jakarta, but the contract for the supply of submarines has not been signed.


Ditch the second hand Kilos, flirting with Amur. I don't know what's next, but i feel we should purchasing U-214 or placing order for more U-209 instead

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Thanks for your explanation Ananda!

Lenta.ru:

Indonesia interested in Russian submarine "Amur-1650"

Indonesian Navy Command has expressed interest in Russian diesel-electric submarines "Amur-1650". On this, as reported by ITAR-TASS news agency, said the director of "Rosoboronexport" roving Nicholas Dimidyuk. According to him, the Indonesian delegation announced the interest during the inspection of the Russian exposition at the international exhibition DSA-2014 in Malaysia.

However, the plan of Indonesian military to begin negotiations on the purchase still not specified. Earlier, the Ministry of Defence of Indonesia led negotiations with Russia on the purchase of second-hand submarines of Project 877 "Halibut". Russia has offered these ships to Indonesian military in August 2013. Later Indonesia declared its refusal to purchase them as military did not satisfy with their technical condition.

If Indonesia decides to purchase new Russian submarines, they will be supplied as part of an export credit of one billion dollars, issued by Moscow and Jakarta in 2007. On the resources of the loan, Indonesia planned to buy Mi-17, Mi-35M, infantry fighting vehicles BMP-3F and submarines of Project 877 "Halibut". Part of the equipment was purchased by Jakarta, but the contract for the supply of submarines has not been signed.


Ditch the second hand Kilos, flirting with Amur. I don't know what's next, but i feel we should purchasing U-214 or placing order for more U-209 instead

There is a reason why the Russian dont want to use these old worn out Project 877s, so its a good decision from the Indonesians to reject the offer. The Amur class can be a good choice, but its still doesnt exist, so the Project 636 will be a safer choice.

 

[Ananda]

They (Indonesian Navy) still envisaged 8-12 submarines by 2020-2024 time period. Even if the join subs program with DSME for those 3 type 209 successful, and PT. PAL does manage to acquire capabilities for Submarine building domestically by 2016-17, it's doubfull they can build more than 4 Subs by 2024 outside those 3 program with DSME (considering the subs manufacturing facility being build is only for one subs at a time from what I heard).

In such to get get those magic 12 Subs, they still need to procured another 4-6 from International market. With that come in mind, then the budget issue will come to play. At best, Pindad can only build 4 type 209 by 2024, which plus 2 that builded in Korea by DSME, that left 6 type 209.
With current old 209 (even after refurbished) will need to be withdrawn by 2020+, then they need 6 more subs to procured overseas. It can be 214, it can be Amur, it can be Scorpene...all depends on which fit the budget. 214 can provide more commonality with DSME 209, however again which will be more economical to procured and run compared to Amur.

It's still assesment stage, will it be change depends on whose come to power with next administration. If the present opposition come to power, again with their historically preference on Russian asset, it can be Amur. So let's see lah.

 

[madokafc]

PT PAL just recently launched a KCR 60 missile boats and christened another one, but as usual their intended armament is just not fitted yet. KCR 60 will carry a single Bofors 57 mm cannon, two unit of 20 mm Denel Vector and four units of C-705 or RBS-15 or C-802 (i still doesn't know which one we will get to arming those KCR 60).

And in another hand PT PAL just fitted properly armament into KCR 40, right now they brought with them a single CIWS AK-630 and two units of C-705 AShM. Not confirmed yet if they bring Manpads with them.

Indonesia navy yet to sign order for 11 Eurocopter Dauphin Panther, but with recent budget cuts in defense sector thanks to Yudhoyono decisions to raise fuel subsidized fund those Panther will not properly fitted with their ASW suit and electronic sensors (only two of them will get proper equipment as ASW helo). Well, still much better to have something in our sleeve than none as our current condition right now.

Finally, Ministry of defense and Navy HQ is more keen to get another German design of Submarine to fulfill our desire to operating at least two full fledged squadron of Submarine forces by 2024.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

According to detikNews : Menunggu Kedatangan Kapal Perusak: KRI Bung Tomo dan KRI Usman Harun the three Nakhoda Ragam Class corvettes are almost ready to leave Great-Britain, the shipyard in Barrow in Furness is almost finished with the third and last of the corvettes, the KRI Usman Harun.
All three ships will arrive in Indonesia before Oktober this year. :dbanana

 

[koxinga]

Two units were commissioned on 18 July. Not sure about the last unit though.

Given the short reactivation and the lack of any reported weapons trials, I think the VLS Mica will only be installed at a later stage.


MENHAN RI RESMIKAN KRI KELAS BUNG TOMO DI INGGRIS > W E B S I T E - T N I A L > Seremonial

Minister of Defence of the Republic of Indonesia, Dr. Yusgiantoro inaugurated Guard Missile Destroyer type Multi-Role Light Frigate (MRLF) , named KRI Bung Tomo-357 and KRI John Lie-358 on Friday, July 18, 2014 held at the dock Anchorline, Barrow-In-Furness, England.

Warship production of BAE Systems, the UK in 2004 has reliable technical specifications. With a length of 95 meters and a width of 12.7 meters, and the encouragement of a system equipped with four main motors CODAD (Combined diesel and diesel) were able to sail with a maximum speed of 31 knots.

Both ships are also equipped with sophisticated weapons systems belonging, such as anti-ship missiles 40 MM surface, anti-air attack missile Sea Wolf, 76 mm cannon, 30 mm cannon and anti-submarine torpedoes. Powered by arms control system, navigation, and communication are well integrated, ship types MRLF is designed to be able to fight face threats from both above water, below water, or air.

Before becoming warships inaugurated by the Minister of Defence of the Republic of Indonesia Republic of Indonesia, the second ship to undergo the naming procession has symbolic meaning that the ship had a heroic spirit of national hero used and to ship along with pengawaknya in the service for the glory of the nation and the state is always protected by the Lord the Almighty.

Giving the name of Bung Tomo KRI KRI-357 and John Lie-358 made by Ny.Lies Yusgiantoro, Indonesian Defense Minister's wife as mother ships. Bung Tomo KRI name is taken from one of the hero who was born in Surabaya on October 3, 1920 He is known for a significant role in uplifting the people of Indonesia to fight the invaders that would return control of the country of Indonesia. Bung Tomo fighting spirit has been demonstrated in combat until 10 November 1945 which is now celebrated as Heroes' Day by the entire nation of Indonesia.

Furthermore, the name of John Lie KRI-357 was taken to commemorate the heroism of the military-Admiral (Retired) Jahja Daniel Dharma, better known as John Lie was one of the high-ranking officer in the Navy during the Revolutionary War. At the beginning of independence, he was assigned to secure cruise ships carrying Indonesian export commodities to be traded in the foreign invaders blockade. Proceeds from the sale of crops which are then used for the purposes of the struggle for Indonesian independence.

Besides attended by the Ministry of Defence, the activities of the naming ceremony and the inauguration of Bung Tomo KRI KRI-357 and John Lie-358 was also attended by members of the House of Representatives Commission I defense, Navy officials, the Embassy British, and British government officials .

After the inauguration ceremony, the two warships will go directly to Indonesia and expected to participate enliven the 69th anniversary of TNI on October 5, 2014 at the Navy Base Surabaya.

 

[koxinga]

Interesting if some what puzzling choice. My guess is she has been made into a trials vessel.

Indonesia equips corvette with Chinese 30 mm CIWS - IHS Jane's 360

The Indonesian Navy (Tentara Nasional Indonesia Angkatan Laut - TNI-AL, or TNI-AL) is equipping its Kapitan Pattimura (Parchim I)-class corvette KRI Sultan Thaha Syaifuddin (876) with a Chinese-developed Type 730 close-in weapon system (CIWS).

The matter was revealed on 22 July by Sultan Thaha Syaifuddin's commanding officer Commander Ario Sasongko during a communal breaking fast event on board the vessel followed by a traditional Indonesian ceremony to mark the start of fitting-out works.

The Type 730 CIWS is a radar-guided cyclic seven-barrelled Gatling gun-style system primarily mounted as a defence against anti-ship missiles and other precision guided ammunitions. It integrates an EFR-1 tracking radar and an OFC-3 electro-optical sensor system on the weapon mount and is known to fire up to 5800 rds/min at distances of up to 3 km. The system can also be employed against unmanned aerial vehicles, smaller aircraft and lighter patrol boats.

Variants of the Type 730 CIWS are currently fixed onboard the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) warships such as the Luzhou (Type 051C)-class, Luyang I (Type 052B)-class and Luyang II (Type 052C)-class destroyers and Jiangkai II (Type 054A)-class guided missile frigates.

Indonesian defence media officials told IHS Jane's on 24 July they were unable to name the variant that is being installed on the Sultan Thaha Syaifuddin .

According to a statement released by the TNI-AL on 23 July, mounting of the Type 730 CIWS is being done following the successful installation of a new Chinese-developed SEWACO combat management system on the vessel.

Sultan Thaha Syaifuddin is an ex-German Democratic Republic vessel, originally inducted into the East German Navy in June 1982 and re-commissioned into the TNI-AL in February 1995. The corvette is currently listed under the strength of the TNI-AL's western fleet (KOARMABAR).

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia commissions first two of three Bung Tomo-class corvettes - IHS Jane's 360

The 44 crew for the last ex NR (now officially called Bung Tomo class in TNI-AL services) has just left Indonesia by 3rd week this month, to begin conversion and preparation to take the ship back.

Jane's seems speculated that due to the naming of the last ship that create diplomatic incident between Indonesia and Singapore, the departure of the last one will be conducting separately on much lower key ceremony. Officially, TNI-AL already told few months ago that the last ship KRI Usman Harun will be the last to arived due to technical preparation.

As for Chinese CIWS on one of the Parchim, well it's not new for TNI-AL for trial newsystem on their ships. Look at Yakhont, which until now only equiped one of Van Speijk frigates.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Indonesia commissions first two of three Bung Tomo-class corvettes - IHS Jane's 360

The 44 crew for the last ex NR (now officially called Bung Tomo class in TNI-AL services) has just left Indonesia by 3rd week this month, to begin conversion and preparation to take the ship back.

Jane's seems speculated that due to the naming of the last ship that create diplomatic incident between Indonesia and Singapore, the departure of the last one will be conducting separately on much lower key ceremony. Officially, TNI-AL already told few months ago that the last ship KRI Usman Harun will be the last to arived due to technical preparation.

As for Chinese CIWS on one of the Parchim, well it's not new for TNI-AL for trial newsystem on their ships. Look at Yakhont, which until now only equiped one of Van Speijk frigates.

I hope the MICA VLS will be installed soon, not like our KCR-40 and KCR-60 patrol boats, initially planned to be armed with hight-tech weaponsystems, but until now only some cheap manually controlled 20 mm and 40 mm guns.

Yes, i read it on another forum about the Parchim I upgrade some days ago. So, the East-German made Parchim I class which is equipped with Russian weapon- and sensor systems, will be upgraded with Chinese SEWACO and the Chinese Type 730 CIWS which is a copy of the Dutch Hollandse Signaalapparaten Goalkeeper CIWS...
Its indeed a remarkable upgrade. If the 16 Parchim I Class corvettes are still in a good shape, then with some upgrades they can deliver some decent firepower.

 

[koxinga]

As for Chinese CIWS on one of the Parchim, well it's not new for TNI-AL for trial newsystem on their ships. Look at Yakhont, which until now only equiped one of Van Speijk frigates.

My question is why chose the Parchim for the Type 730 fit? The Type 730 is a fairly sophisticated system that is typically fitted on front-line (read newer, larger, more high value targets) ships in PLA-N service.

PLA-N is not putting them on new corvette size vessels (Type 56) and definitely not using them to upgrade older corvette size vessels. The reasons are probably both financial and technical (weight, deck penetration).

 

[Gadjah Mada]

I hope the MICA VLS will be installed soon, not like our KCR-40 and KCR-60 patrol boats, initially planned to be armed with hight-tech weaponsystems, but until now only some cheap manually controlled 20 mm and 40 mm guns.

I think your info is not updated. The installation of Type 630 CIWS on KRI Clurit 641 and KRI Kujang 642 has been finished: Dua KRI Jajaran Koarmabar Berhasil Melaksanakan HAT dan SAT > Komando RI Kawasan Barat > Berita militer

TWO KRI KOARMABAR SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENT HAT AND SAT

Jakarta, July 25, 2014, --- KRI Clurit-641 by Commander Marine Maj. (P) Bambang Supriyono, SE-642 and KRI Kujang by Commander Marine Maj. (P) Rama Remiear Putra, recently in the waters of Lingga Island, Batam , Riau Islands, succeeded in carrying out the activities of HAT (Harbour Acceptance Test) and SAT (Sea Acceptance Test) Fire Control System (FCS) C-705 Missiles and Combat Management System (CMS) NG-18 cannon 6 Barrel 30 mm caliber. The series of activities include nti surface real target test, missile anti surface real target test, anti air real target, moving base alignment for missile dan naval gun firing test. .....

 

[Ananda]

My question is why chose the Parchim for the Type 730 fit? The Type 730 is a fairly sophisticated system that is typically fitted on front-line (read newer, larger, more high value targets) ships in PLA-N service.

Good question. Supposedly the Type 730 going to replace existing AK230 in Parchim. Puting on dimension wise, Type 730 also considerably bigger than AK 230 being replaced. It's more fitting to replace AK 230 with AK 630, afterall AK 630 (or the Chinese copy) already being put on KCR 40.

That's why somehow I see this as one off trial, like the Yakhont on one of the Van Speijk. Before, local media and forum speculated that after the firing of Yakhont from KRI OWA, the other Van Speijk frigates will be equiped by Yakhont. Instead now some of them being fitted by C-802.

Will see how this turn out for the rest of Parchim. Then again it could be the rest of Parchim will be equiped by Type 730, considering bigger TNI-AL ships in future like PKR light frigates seems will be relies with naval version of Oerlikon Skyshield as CIWS.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

I think your info is not updated. The installation of Type 630 CIWS on KRI Clurit 641 and KRI Kujang 642 has been finished: Dua KRI Jajaran Koarmabar Berhasil Melaksanakan HAT dan SAT > Komando RI Kawasan Barat > Berita militer

TWO KRI KOARMABAR SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENT HAT AND SAT

Jakarta, July 25, 2014, --- KRI Clurit-641 by Commander Marine Maj. (P) Bambang Supriyono, SE-642 and KRI Kujang by Commander Marine Maj. (P) Rama Remiear Putra, recently in the waters of Lingga Island, Batam , Riau Islands, succeeded in carrying out the activities of HAT (Harbour Acceptance Test) and SAT (Sea Acceptance Test) Fire Control System (FCS) C-705 Missiles and Combat Management System (CMS) NG-18 cannon 6 Barrel 30 mm caliber. The series of activities include nti surface real target test, missile anti surface real target test, anti air real target, moving base alignment for missile dan naval gun firing test. .....

Thank you for updating me!
Hopefully these Chinese illegal AK-630 copy is as good as the original ones....

 

[Gadjah Mada]

I don`t know anything about radar or missile technology, but from the news I found that KCR 40 radar tracking range for surface target is only 8 km. How they gonna aim at the target with a missile designed for more than 100 km? Considering lack of OTHT capability of TNI-AL?

Just curious. Hope anybody on this forum could explain.

China once offered Indonesia with C4I system which can be integrated with C-705 missile: China Defense Blog: China is offered to build Indonesia's costal C4I system.

Does anybody know the latest news on this? Or TNI-AL want to integrate Chinese system on KCR-40 with Chinese built coastal radar too?

 

[koxinga]

I don`t know anything about radar or missile technology, but from the news I found that KCR 40 radar tracking range for surface target is only 8 km. How they gonna aim at the target with a missile designed for more than 100 km? Considering lack of OTHT capability of TNI-AL?

You fire down the bearing and hope for the best when the seeker is turned on during the terminal phase. OTH merely allows you to perform mid-course updates.