Ukranian Crisis

[John Fedup]

And I will keep calling thousand millions, thousand millions (the correct way btw).

Large scale uses a million as a multiplier whereas small scale uses a thousand so a thousand million is correct for large scale but in small scale, a thousand million is one billion. Small scale seems to be the norm these days.

 

[John Fedup]

Defense-aerospace is reporting France may cancel the Mistral deal with Russia should the Ukrainian crisis worsen. I can't see this ever happening short of Russia invading the Ukraine.

 

[KiwiRob]

Defense-aerospace is reporting France may cancel the Mistral deal with Russia should the Ukrainian crisis worsen. I can't see this ever happening short of Russia invading the Ukraine.

That would probably financially hurt France far more than it would Russia. Vladivostok started sea trials a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Feanor]

A Ukrainian soldiers or warrant officer died during the storming of a Ukrainian military unit, by Crimea Self Defense forces. He was wounded in the neck, an ambulance was called, and he died on the way to the hospital. It's not clear whether they were Russian forces, or some newly-formed Crimean force. Ukrainian government authorized troops in Crimea to use weapons, in response to this.

http://newsru.com/world/18mar2014/simfire.html

However it may be more complex then that. Other sources report that one self-defense fighter was killed, and two wounded, by unknown armed men. Allegedly the same men shot the Ukrainian service member. In favor of it being a provocation speaks the fact that the unit is a military cartography unit, completely incapable of putting up any sort of resistance. Much more serious units were blockaded and disarmed, by simply locking the gate to the unit from the outside, and putting up a few armed guards.

http://u-96.livejournal.com/3259582.html
http://twower.livejournal.com/1240327.html

And Crimea has been officially accepted into the Russian Federation. Well at least they're not getting shafted, S. Ossetia style.

http://newsru.com/russia/18mar2014/putin_poslanie.html

Also Ukraine declared that Russians in Ukraine are diaspora, not minorities, and can't call a referendum. Only ethnicities that originated in Ukraine can.

http://newsru.com/world/18mar2014/russodiaspora.html

Even more pics of Russian troops in Crimea.

http://u-96.livejournal.com/3259057.html

And Crimea may not be able to run the Ukrainian grivna side by side with the rouble, due to measures taken to Kiev. However Russian Centro-bank is sending mobile currency centers to pay out pensions, and paychecks to government employees, in roubles.

http://vz.ru/economy/2014/3/18/677731.html

 

[nkvd]

Fantastic pictures in one of the links.Once again thanks Feanor.So Crimea done and dusted next up Alaska

 

[Feanor]

Photos from the shooting incident. The men in the photo look familiar.

u_96:

Could they be these guys?

u_96:

Meanwhile the Ukrainian Navy ships in Sevastopol will be renamed back to their historic names. And possibly accepted into the Russian Navy.

http://www.vz.ru/news/2014/3/18/677801.html

Crimean leadership claims that they will start contributing to the Russian Army draft as early as this spring.

http://newsru.com/russia/19mar2014/aksenov.html

 

[Bonza]

Photos from the shooting incident. The men in the photo look familiar.

u_96:

Could they be these guys?

u_96:

Meanwhile the Ukrainian Navy ships in Sevastopol will be renamed back to their historic names. And possibly accepted into the Russian Navy.

*

Crimean leadership claims that they will start contributing to the Russian Army draft as early as this spring.

http://newsru.com/russia/19mar2014/aksenov.html

Check out the top photo in the second link... is that an AR-15 frame? Looks a bit like an HK416 or 417 (I'm betting on the latter considering the scope), I certainly didn't expect to see a Russian soldier toting that kind of weapon. Or is he part of a Crimean group, do you think? In any case I expected it to be AKs all the way, not a railed-up AR-15 variant!

Edit: Actually I see the same guy in the second photo, magazine definitely looks more like a 7.62mm mag.

 

[Feanor]

Check out the top photo in the second link... is that an AR-15 frame? Looks a bit like an HK416 or 417 (I'm betting on the latter considering the scope), I certainly didn't expect to see a Russian soldier toting that kind of weapon. Or is he part of a Crimean group, do you think? In any case I expected it to be AKs all the way, not a railed-up AR-15 variant!

Edit: Actually I see the same guy in the second photo, magazine definitely looks more like a 7.62mm mag.

There's speculation that these guys may be some group of Ukrainian force-wielders operating in Crimea, be it SBU, or MVD, or something else. But as of right now it's a mess and nothing is clear. The area is sealed off by Crimean police and military procuracy officers (Ukrainian ones).

This source, allegedly a Ukrainian service-member in another unit nearby, says that Crimean self-defense forces sneaked in past the fence, and tried to grab a Ukrainian officer. Things got messy and confusing, and a lot of shots were fired, but it looks like the fire was inaccurate. A Ukrainian Warrant Officer was killed. He says that Russian troops so far have been very professional and reserved, and says that they seem just as worried about this whole situation as they are.

Overall it looks fairly legit. Like I said many times earlier, these Crimean Militias are a very dangerous group. The fact that they seem to have gotten their hands on weapons is very bad. I hope they are rapidly disbanded, now that Crimea has been annexed.

sokol-ff.livejournal.com/748360.html

 

[KiwiRob]

Also Ukraine declared that Russians in Ukraine are diaspora, not minorities, and can't call a referendum. Only ethnicities that originated in Ukraine can.

Surely they are having a laugh with that statement, I doubt there are many, if any pureblood ethnic Ukranians living today, or for probably a very long time.

 

[Klaus]

Is there any reliable information on which ships of the Ukrainian navy remain in Sevastopol? I've read the Hetman Zahaidachny made it to Odessa, but what happened to the rest of the fleet I don't know. Ukraine should have had about six missile boats and a submarine left, as well as several other small ships.

Transnistria has also demanded recognition by the Russian government so it can join the Russian Federation. However, there are reports that no decision will be made until it is clear whether Moldavia signs the association agreement with the EU.
Furthermore supllying Transnistria with energy and other goods would be far more complicated than it is the case with Crimea.

 

[ngatimozart]

Surely they are having a laugh with that statement, I doubt there are many, if any pureblood ethnic Ukranians living today, or for probably a very long time.

And may I ask just on what you would base that claim?

 

[nkvd]

BBC`s man on the ground in Crimea who is also its world affairs editor John Simpson has apparently not read the west`s script on Crimea and its referendum.This is a gist of what he says:

The takeover of Crimea has been completely different. This was an infiltration, not an invasion. And unlike in Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan it was welcomed by a large proportion of the local population.
According to a well-known opponent of Mr Putin's, the vote in Crimea to join the Russian Federation was "a referendum under the Kalashnikov". But it wasn't. The outcome was what the vast majority of Russian-speakers in Crimea really wanted, and there was little need for Kalashnikovs in the street.

 

[Feanor]

And may I ask just on what you would base that claim?

Well it would depend on what you want to call a pure-blooded Ukrainian... I have family from Western Ukraine (father's side) with Romanian, Turkish and Polish blood. And that's pretty typical for that part of the country.

 

[Feanor]

Meanwhile the situation is getting scary. Various armed units are being formed, with unclear purposes. The Euro-Maydan has begun forming "partisan units" to oppose a potential Russian occupation. But what will those units do if there is no occupation? And a special "People's Guard" (not to be confused with the National Guard in Kiev) is being formed in L'vov for the purpose of patrolling the streets, protecting strategic objects, and guarding the border. You know, in case those pesky Poles try something...

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Ð¡Ð¸Ñ‚ÑƒÐ°Ñ†Ð¸Ñ Ð½Ð° Украине. Формирование ÐВФ

Meanwhile the Kamaz trucks "acquired" by Right Sector, could end up handed over to the new National Guard. Given that they're grain transport trucks, it's not clear what they would do with them.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/778022.html

Right Sector is also forming an armed unit, called Russian Legion, consisting of ethnic Russians who want to take up arms against Putin, in defense of Ukrainian sovereignty. Right Sector also stated that they will retain their own militia and arms, which they need for self defense. They criticized the new National Guard as a police unit, that will be used against them.

http://twower.livejournal.com/1241389.html

And the Chairman of the Rada gave the Crimean authorities 3 hours to roll back what they've done, or else "measure of a technological nature" will be taken. I'm guessing they're threatening to turn off the lights and water.

http://twower.livejournal.com/1241801.html

In Crimea, the 36th Coastal Defense Brigade is surrendering. And the HQ of the Ukrainian Navy has surrendered also. The second link is a photo of a Ukrainian Navy officer leaving the HQ, surrounded by Russian soldiers.

The HQ surrendered after a massive demonstration demanded that they either join the new government of Crimea, or leave. The Crimean Admiral then negotiated with a Russian counter part, and I'm guessing they were allowed to remove certain documents.

The last link is a video from the situation. In it you can see locals saw down the gate to the HQ, and enter it in massive numbers, proceeding to a lengthy and wordy confrontation with the Ukrainian forces inside.

http://twower.livejournal.com/1240865.html
http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/136407.html
http://vz.ru/politics/2014/3/19/677909.html
http://u-96.livejournal.com/3261334.html

Another Ukrainian unit was stormed, with a tractor used to remove the gate. Russian troops control the entrance checkpoint, but the unit has not surrendered.

http://newsru.com/russia/19mar2014/shturm.html

And the Marine Btln in Feodosiya (the one that refuses to surrender, and seems intent on defending itself with weapons) has demanded that the Kiev government provide them with certain guarantees. Otherwise they may lay down arms.

1) A guarantee that the unit will be preserved.
2) Keeping the unit together as one unit in Ukraine, with specific promises of where they will go.
3) An immediate exit from Crimea.

http://twower.livejournal.com/1241254.html

Ukrainian military units continue to concentrate in Kherson, across from Crimea.

http://u-96.livejournal.com/3261725.html

And Ukraine is starting a visa regime with Russia, as well as contemplating leaving the CIS.

http://newsru.com/world/19mar2014/ukrasng.html

Russia has begun handing out Russian passports in Crimea.

http://newsru.com/russia/19mar2014/krmpssprt.html

And western investors have begun buying up cheap Russian shares, which fell recently after the intervention in Crimea. It looks like they don't believe in the sanctions.

http://vz.ru/economy/2014/3/19/677967.html

 

[plasmahawk]

Well it would depend on what you want to call a pure-blooded Ukrainian... I have family from Western Ukraine (father's side) with Romanian, Turkish and Polish blood. And that's pretty typical for that part of the country.

my father is from Dnepropetrovsk and grandfather too where he designed the ss18 satans at kb yuzhnoe... but I say I am Russian ethnically... Soviet Union had a lot of influence across all former republics

 

[KiwiRob]

And may I ask just on what you would base that claim?

Well when you look at a MAP which shows how Ukraine was created, parts came from Poland, Russia, Romania, Moldova the actual part which was the core of Ukraine is very small, with interbreeding between all these different people the chances of a pure ethnic Ukranian would be slim to none IMO.

 

[umair]

Feanor, wrt the Ukrainian Constitution, what was Crimea's actual status in Ukraine before this ahem situation. Btw guys from a purely economic point of view, Russia may find it has acquired a money pit. Crimea's finances were subsidised upto 50%+ by Ukraine proper, it's GDP was lower than the rest of Ukraine (on par with Palestinian territories), the pension in Russia I think is well over twice what the Ukrainian state/funds pay & a whole lot more. I get article links from both ICAEW & ACCA + in our networks this morning many fellow members (above 2 bodies) were discussing this whole thing wrt the financial side. I'll put in more when I get more thanks.

 

[umair]

BTW I also hear Australia has sanctioned both Russia & Ukraine?

 

[Klaus]

Aren't there gas fields near the Crimean coast? Under Yanukovich Ukraine intended to exploit these fields with foreign assistance, but now they could belong to Russia, but I'm not sure where they're exactly located. Anyway, taking over Crimea will also save Russia some money. They won't have to build a new fleet base in Novorossiisk for the BSF and now they got an additional workforce of about 1 million that will pay taxes.

Apparently the Ukrainian navy has left several of its larger warships in Sevastopol, including the corvettes Ternopil and Vinnitsya, a landing ship and the command ship Slavutich. Video footage I saw on tv also showed another corvette and some smaller ships, but I couldn't identify these.

 

[ngatimozart]

Well when you look at a MAP which shows how Ukraine was created, parts came from Poland, Russia, Romania, Moldova the actual part which was the core of Ukraine is very small, with interbreeding between all these different people the chances of a pure ethnic Ukranian would be slim to none IMO. It would be like trying to find a 100% Maori or the tooth fairy, they don't exist.

Well being Māori myself, I find the last sentence highly offensive, racist and incorrect. Just go and visit Tuhoe - the Children of the Mist. Why are you concentrating upon the pureness of the race? The terminology you are using reminds me somewhat of the terminology used in the practise of eugenics which is discredited. The map you put up is not a map that shows ethnicity, nor the displacement of the pre-existing population by the newcomers, in this case Russians. This forum is not the place for such intolerant crap.