Australian Army Discussions and Updates

Marc 1

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I was wondering if someone with knowledge/experience on this thread could give any kind of comparrison between the ASLAV and the bushmaster in terms of off road/rough terrain mobility.

Sorry if this has allready been covered.

Thanks
No guru on the subject but the weights according to wiki are within a tonne or so of each other - the ASLAV has twice as many wheels, therefore roughly half the ground pressure, twice the traction, the ability to cross trenches that the 4x4 design cannot etc. There would be no rampover angle on the ASLAV, whereas there would be on the Bushmaster....

At a guess, I'd give the cross country 'points' to the ASLAV (and it can be ampibious - not sure it would be with the bar amour etc).
 

Raven22

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I was wondering if someone with knowledge/experience on this thread could give any kind of comparrison between the ASLAV and the bushmaster in terms of off road/rough terrain mobility.

Sorry if this has allready been covered.

Thanks
The ASLAV and Bushie are roughly equivalent on road. They can both easily cruise at 100km/h (although its far more comfortable to do so in a Bushie than an ASLAV), and ranges are about the same.

Off road in the dry, the Bushie is closer to the ASLAV than you might think. The biggest concern with the Bushie is the high centre of gravity. Going on any sort of a side slope is scary as hell, although a ballsy and experienced crew can get through most places. The other big concern is departure/approach angles and trench crossing, where the ASLAV is much better.

In the wet though there is a big difference. The ASLAV can go a hell of a lot of places in the wet a Bushie can't. Even in the wet though the Bushie is probably better than you might think, although you'll get a lot of recovery practice if you try too hard. On an exercise this year I recovered a bogged ASLAV with a Bushie which earned me some bragging rights, which I quickly lost as I got bogged so bad I needed an engineer dozer to get me out. When the ground is level with the rear step on a Bushie, that is bad.

As a comparison, off road a Bushie is about as mobile as a well driven Unimog.
 
Last edited:

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
At a guess, I'd give the cross country 'points' to the ASLAV (and it can be ampibious - not sure it would be with the bar amour etc).
Spall armour is enough to take away the ASLAV's swim capability. Bar armour is even more weight (I can't imagine anyone would roll with bars and not spall liners) plus CIED ECM. The Gen IV, Phase 5 ASLAV was supposed to add a new design, new build hull which provided the higher armour level while restoring the swim capability but since it cost money it was cancelled.
 

Raven22

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Spall armour is enough to take away the ASLAV's swim capability. Bar armour is even more weight (I can't imagine anyone would roll with bars and not spall liners) plus CIED ECM. The Gen IV, Phase 5 ASLAV was supposed to add a new design, new build hull which provided the higher armour level while restoring the swim capability but since it cost money it was cancelled.
The Phase 4 (not 5) ASLAV was never going to swim. There's no way the weight saving features was going to offset the increase in weight. Since no combat loaded ASLAV has ever actually swum anyway, this wasn't such a big deal.
 

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
The Phase 4 (not 5) ASLAV was never going to swim. There's no way the weight saving features was going to offset the increase in weight. Since no combat loaded ASLAV has ever actually swum anyway, this wasn't such a big deal.
Phase 4 for Gen 3… I added one to each! The new hull was going to be bigger so have more volume so displace more water to compensate for gross increase in weight to maintain the swim capability. I agree it wasn’t a big deal (the swim capability) but it was a specified requirement. Would have been much easier that after the first deployments of the AMTG that a regiment’s worth of LAV III were purchased. Sure it would have a different engine, transmission, etc but it could have a common turret and provide a bigger, more armoured vehicle for operational use while the ASLAVs were used for training.
 

hairyman

Active Member
How do they compare price-wise? I imagine that the Aslav would be a lot dearer, am I correct?
And do they have the same carrying capacity?
 

Raven22

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
How do they compare price-wise? I imagine that the Aslav would be a lot dearer, am I correct?
And do they have the same carrying capacity?
It depends on what variant ASLAV, but it will generally be 2-3 times more expensive than a PMV.

Again, carrying capacity depends on variant. The ASLAV-PC can carry seven passengers in relative comfort, more if needed. The ASLAV-25 can theoretically carry six passengers, but realistically four is the max you will fit in. Very rarely are passengers carried in a gun car though. The troop variant of the Bushmaster has 7 or 8 seats in the back, in addition to two for the crew.
 

Raven22

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
For those interested, the new Australian Multicam uniform was nicely modeled by the 7 RAR digs about to deploy to Afghan. The first picture shows the new unnecessarily changed shirt being worn by the CO. Nice jaunty hat angle too. The second photo nicely shows the little ADF crest incorporated into the pattern. Cute photo too.

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5579&stc=1&d=1350300838

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5580&stc=1&d=1350300838

BTW, what happened to posting images?
 

t68

Well-Known Member
For those interested, the new Australian Multicam uniform was nicely modeled by the 7 RAR digs about to deploy to Afghan. The first picture shows the new unnecessarily changed shirt being worn by the CO. Nice jaunty hat angle too. The second photo nicely shows the little ADF crest incorporated into the pattern. Cute photo too.

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5579&stc=1&d=1350300838

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5580&stc=1&d=1350300838

BTW, what happened to posting images?


Are these going to be the standard cams across Army or still only for those going overseas?

New combat uniform makes troops job easier - Defence News - Department of Defence

wasn’t there some sort of Sh#t fight some time ago about sending the pattern to China so the uniforms could made cheaper or something, is this those uniforms?
 

Raven22

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Are these going to be the standard cams across Army or still only for those going overseas?

New combat uniform makes troops job easier - Defence News - Department of Defence

wasn’t there some sort of Sh#t fight some time ago about sending the pattern to China so the uniforms could made cheaper or something, is this those uniforms?
It's yet to be decided whether the new cams will replace DPCU. There are trials happening early next year that will inform any decision. Not surprisingly, cost will play a big part - now probably isn't a good time to get new uniforms that aren't all that much better than the old ones.

The thing about China was just the way Defence buys things. The uniforms were always going to be made in Australia, but the quote from China allows them to quantify just how much that made in Australia label costs.
 

Trackmaster

Member
I see today that the government has approved an additional buy of M777A2 Guns makes for a total of 6 batteries, least it’s not a total loss we did not get approval for an SPG.

Australia Orders Additional M777 Howitzers | Army & Land Forces News at DefenceTalk
The Australian Financial Review carried a story today saying the South Koreans are really ticked off, after the Government rejected an unsolicited offer for SPGs, at around $225 million.
Acording to the AFR, Samsung went to Canberra solo, without their former American partners...and the price was way down. Harsh words were spoken.
 

Milne Bay

Active Member
A bit divergent from the topics being discussed - but .
I was looking at The National Search and Rescue Manual, and found this section:
Australian Defence Force – Military SAR
1.1.16
The Commonwealth Government, through the Australian Defence Force (ADF) is responsible for the provision of SAR for all ADF and visiting military ships, personnel and aircraft. This responsibility is exercised through Headquarters Joint Operations Command (HQJOC) down to the respective components of the ADF; Maritime (Fleet Headquarters- FHQ), Land (Army Headquarters - AHQ) and Air (Air and Space Operations Centre (AOC) respectively.

I get the impression that air assets for SAR are provided by the Army - hence my posting in this thread.
Does anyone know what SAR platforms are used , by the Army , and more widely by other agencies in Australia?
Cheers
MB
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
I see today that the government has approved an additional buy of M777A2 Guns makes for a total of 6 batteries, least it’s not a total loss we did not get approval for an SPG.
I'm a bit unclear about the M777. Would it be correct to say that despite not having an APU and a fixed undercarriage that enables the gun to be rapidly moved, the main advantage M777 offers over other towed 155mm guns is its light weight?

Has the army shown any interest in a motorised 155mm gun that can fit in a C-130J?
 

Milne Bay

Active Member
I'm a bit unclear about the M777. Would it be correct to say that despite not having an APU and a fixed undercarriage that enables the gun to be rapidly moved, the main advantage M777 offers over other towed 155mm guns is its light weight?

Has the army shown any interest in a motorised 155mm gun that can fit in a C-130J?
Others will correct me here, but I think its main advantage is that it is AFATDS compatible.
Not sure about your second question
 

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I'm a bit unclear about the M777. Would it be correct to say that despite not having an APU and a fixed undercarriage that enables the gun to be rapidly moved, the main advantage M777 offers over other towed 155mm guns is its light weight?
The M777 can be moved faster over ground than any 155mm with an APU. Unlike these other guns the M777 is balanced to stand on its wheels. So when in the travel configuration you can basically haul it along by hand quite easily. But the best method is just to tow it with a quad bike.

Has the army shown any interest in a motorised 155mm gun that can fit in a C-130J?
Nope. Army doesn’t believe in the viability of air transportability of mechanised combat forces.
 

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
So when the RAAF moved a M1A1 Abrams it was a case of let’s see if we can do it, if army doesn’t believe that Mech force’s should be airlifted why practice it?
Because flying a single M1A1 in a C-17 is NOT the practice of airlifting a mechanised force.
 
Top