Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
Sure it’s cheaper (though since it doesn't actually exist this is an estimated call). A new build Mustang would even be cheaper than the Gripen N. But it wouldn't provide the capability the RAAF needs. If this was just a matter of buying the cheapest fast jet that can drop some bombs and fire missiles then the RAAF should be buying 100 FA-50s from Korea. But it’s about providing the RAAF the capability it needs to be an air combat force into the 21st century. Super Hornet is an important part of this plan but, like the USN, only as a supporting asset to the F-35 from the 2020s.
Not being an expert only a military supporter I would have thought that the F15 family would have been a better buy for Australia, seeing that it already used by nations around us and the upgtades that are available to it. eg silent eagle and strike eagle.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #3,264
Had replacement of the F-111 been planned for a decade earlier than it occurred perhaps. The SHornets while multi-role, were acquired to replace the 'strike' capability that the F-111's used to be able to provide. In reality, the F-111's were not only hideously expensive to maintain, but their much vaunted range, speed and bomb capacity no longer counted for much, since they were not survivable in contemporary contested airspace without escort from the 'Classic' Hornets.Not being an expert only a military supporter I would have thought that the F15 family would have been a better buy for Australia, seeing that it already used by nations around us and the upgtades that are available to it. eg silent eagle and strike eagle.
The SHornets were chosen largely because of how quickly and easily the RAAF could get them into service and reach IOC.
OTOH if the RAAF had planned to retire the F-111's some time in the 1990's or early in the past decade, then the F-15E might have been an option. Personally, I think the RAAF should have started planning on retiring the F-111's once the USAF retired, instead of anticipating having them soldier on until ~2020, which had been the planned retirement timeframe.
-Cheers
the road runner
Active Member
Not really as Australia was already a Hornet user.We are familiar with the F-18 classics,and the Super hornet was just a updated version of the A/B(C/D) hornets.Not being an expert only a military supporter I would have thought that the F15 family would have been a better buy for Australia, seeing that it already used by nations around us and the upgtades that are available to it. eg silent eagle and strike eagle.
If we were to use a F-15 we would need new training for ground crews and pilot,flight sims ,all adding to the cost of operating the F-15. Also our Hawk trainers resemble a F-18 cockpit.
We did choose the right Aircraft to follow on for our F-111.Choosing the Super hornet will be an incremental step towards JSF ,making it easier for our pilots to go from F-18 classics to super hornets to JSF.RAAF will also have the capability of the "Growlers" something that no other country besides the USN has.
Air Force Brat
Member
Well the old Herky birds are very effective alarm clocks, I can recall when my Dad was an IP in the C-130 at Sewart AFB, in Smyrna, Tenn, being awakend by 15-20 Herks at approx 150-300 ft altitude, what was known as tree top level, in approx 10 to 15 second intervals in entrail formation. And yes the tops of the trees were indeed blowing from the propwash of that Awesome formation. And yes I ran outside in my jammies and bare foot to stand on our front walk. So while 1 is awesome, that little parade is pemanently etched into my psyche as "Holy Cow"!
I believe they were E models and they were still bare aluminum with the stars and bars I believe, although as soon as the blackbird, the mc-130e combat talon came along, there were some at Sewart, although they were top secret and equiped with terrain following radar, and the fulton recovery system, and also at Hurlburt and Pope, AFB in North Carolina, two places we visited in the months prior to my Dads deployment to SEA in 1967. I'm not sure that my Dad was an AC in the Combat Talon, but he had 65 hours logged, I believe out of Tan SoNhute. I will have to check his old service records at my Moms house.
The RAAF have deployed "several" C-130 to "assist" in PNG elections.
I would also imagine they would be really handy to have to evacuate diplomatic, expats etc should the need arise..
ADF to support Papua New Guinea elections - Department of Defence
I would also imagine they would be really handy to have to evacuate diplomatic, expats etc should the need arise..
ADF to support Papua New Guinea elections - Department of Defence
C27-j
Just a question for anyone that may have more detail on dimensions ? Will the Hawkei fit into the C27 ? It has the capability for the lift in weight, but from what I have been able to find just misses out on the physical dimensions. Also curious if the RAAF C27's will be fitted with the optional extra fuel tank which gives it an additional 10% capacity
Cheers
Just a question for anyone that may have more detail on dimensions ? Will the Hawkei fit into the C27 ? It has the capability for the lift in weight, but from what I have been able to find just misses out on the physical dimensions. Also curious if the RAAF C27's will be fitted with the optional extra fuel tank which gives it an additional 10% capacity
Cheers
winnyfield
New Member
Maybe ... deflate the tyres a bit.
[ame="http://www.scribd.com/doc/48592458/c-27jpocket-technical-guide-2010"]c-27jpocket_technical_guide_2010[/ame]
C-27J
box height - 2.25m
cabin - 2.6m
box width - 2.45m
cabin width - 3.33m
Hawkei
height - 2.3m
width - 2.4m
C-27j can be air refueled. May not need the extra fuel tanks.
Thanks for that, good little guide with some usefull info, not looking good for that, but I suppose it is not a major drama, was just curious. I think the extra tank would be good for us for the additional distance, we dont have that much A2A re-fueling capability to go around, so for our distances around Australia in general the extra capacity would be a big plus
More a peacetime question I suppose - sure it looks like the Hawkei can be squeezed in there - but the driver is going to have to remain in the vehicle for the duration of the flight unless he/she can disembark from a rear door or an escape hatch underneath the vehicle going by those dimensions.
I'm guessing in peacetime that would not be permitted would it?
Just climb out the rear hatch. How do you think you get any other vehicle onto an aircraft?
If they can advertise the Bushmaster as being transportable by C-130 they can certainly claim the Hawkei can be transported by C-27. To fit a Bushie into a Herk you have to disassemble half the vehicle and put the CTIS on kneeling (ie let the air out of the tyres until they are sitting on the runflats). Hawkei in a C-27 should be simpler.
The vehicle the C-27s will usually deploy will be the Supacat HMT. Which will fit in without having to dismount the top weapon. So they can roll out and away without needing to stop.
It has a rear hatch? I thought the config was dual cab and single cab ute (apart from the bare bones SF model)
http://www.hawkei.com/links/brochures/PRV_Hawkei_Command_Datasheet_110825_web.pdf
http://www.hawkei.com/links/brochures/PRV_Hawkei_Ute Datasheet_110825_web.pdf
http://www.hawkei.com/
Even if the Hawkei doesn't have a rear hatch there will be enough head room to get out of it inside a C-27 via the top hatch. The cargo bay of the C-27J has a height of 2.6m along the centreline, it only drops down to 2.25m along the sides. There is also room to open the doors and get in and out the old fashioned way. The cargo box is just the maximum square cross section of the cargo bay but it is higher and wider at the extremes. By looking at the Hawkei and its sculpted corners on the roof it actually looks as if it has been designed to fit into the C-27. Which wouldn't be a surprise as it was probably a requirement.
Was thinking the same thing, as mentioned in the initial question it was just a curiosity if it needed to be done. I would assume, depending on the situation, that the C27 would be the initial troop insertion, C130 for maybe further troops and medium vehicles (IE:Hawkei ect) and then followed by the C17 with larger equipment such as ASLAV/Bushmaster and M1's etc
I would imagine being able to fly out/in a damaged Hawkie on a C-27J would be pretty handy at times. Allowing the C-27J to do more of the intra lifting and freeing up the C-130's (to move them bushies, ha!). Being able to move a striped down damaged Hawkei means a back haul flight becomes useful. I suppose same idea behind being able to put a bushie on a C-130. Its do able, but best left for emergencies or contingencies.
Places like PNG the road network is permanently incomplete, so being able to fly vehicles in and out of remote sections is extremely useful. Same with other pacific islands where each island is widely separated, where a Hawkei would be great (eg policing Samoa or Fiji style riots, where normal 4wd get trashed or Hawkei could act as a mini remote command post).
Places like PNG the road network is permanently incomplete, so being able to fly vehicles in and out of remote sections is extremely useful. Same with other pacific islands where each island is widely separated, where a Hawkei would be great (eg policing Samoa or Fiji style riots, where normal 4wd get trashed or Hawkei could act as a mini remote command post).
RubiconNZ
The Wanderer
Interesting article a couple of weeks ago on Defense News
MC-12 Liberty Planes Eyed for Cuts | Defense News | defensenews.com
How would 5-6 of these perform in a FAC/Overwatch role, should they become available in the next few years with a new unit price of $17 million its a relative low acquisition cost for a complimentary capability for the RAAF.
Being unfamiliar with its sensor capability is this a suitable aircraft, or given the continue advancement of UAV's could this capability should it be needed (funded) be fulfilled instead by a medium range UAV.
Thanks
MC-12 Liberty Planes Eyed for Cuts | Defense News | defensenews.com
How would 5-6 of these perform in a FAC/Overwatch role, should they become available in the next few years with a new unit price of $17 million its a relative low acquisition cost for a complimentary capability for the RAAF.
Being unfamiliar with its sensor capability is this a suitable aircraft, or given the continue advancement of UAV's could this capability should it be needed (funded) be fulfilled instead by a medium range UAV.
Thanks
VerySneaky
New Member
For anyone that might've missed it, the 2012 Defence Capability Plan was released yesterday.
defence.gov.au/publications/CapabilityPlan2012.pdf
(I cant link yet)
Points of interest:
AIR5349 EA-18G Growler Acquisition - P32
AIR6000 JSF Acquisition - P54
It's encouraging to see that we still appear to be maintaining procurement numbers considering the amount of bad press the JSF program has recieved in Australia from Jensen, Kopp and Goon. The Australian also released an article today stating that:
I wonder who these experts are?
defence.gov.au/publications/CapabilityPlan2012.pdf
(I cant link yet)
Points of interest:
AIR5349 EA-18G Growler Acquisition - P32
AIR6000 JSF Acquisition - P54
Looks like they are allowing for a few years of delays in their projected IOC figures and pushing the acquisition of the 4th squadron back to 2024-27.AIR6000 Phase 2A/2B said:
It's encouraging to see that we still appear to be maintaining procurement numbers considering the amount of bad press the JSF program has recieved in Australia from Jensen, Kopp and Goon. The Australian also released an article today stating that:
theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/bn-military-wish-list-unaffordable/story-e6frg8yo-1226422949070
I wonder who these experts are?