Royal New Zealand Air Force

[RegR]

We have had LAVIIIs for years, they have only just deployed to Afghan in modest numbers on the tail end of our time there therefore tanks would have been a good investment??

Our jets flew circles around NZ and fired shots in anger once, at a speeding fishing vessel, and the rest of the time they ALL sat at one of our two operational bases so unless we got a two week heads up or any potential enemy decided for some strange reason not to infiltrate first, then chances are all they are is expensive targets. A perfect operation would have been Timor right on our back doorstep however no, they revved their engines in Ohakea instead. Don't get me wrong they were some of the best around but if we do not have the right equipment expenditure, operational funding or government commital then they are merely token boy racers of the sky awaiting WWIII to kick off.

Submarines??? are you guys serious? Australia can afford billion dollar failed equipment we cannot, and I would prefer alot better capabilities before a submarine and ones we will actually use like AOR, sealift and surveillance(to intercept that chugging fishing vessel).

We are not a war machine so instead of doing everything mediocre trying to pay for everything under the sun because it looks good parked on the tarmac channel the funds into projects we can do well and concentrate on that. Next thing we'll be getting an aircraft carrier,Tonga can get the Abrams, Timor the predator drones and Samoa can take on a few Raptors to pull their weight, just in case.

 

[the road runner]

Submarines??? are you guys serious? Australia can afford billion dollar failed equipment we cannot,

You should read the RAN thread if you think that.

 

[ngatimozart]

You should read the RAN thread if you think that.

Have been reading the RAN thread and following a couple of others. I don't necessarily think like that but Reg R does make a very salient point.

 

[ngatimozart]

Something else for a minute. I have been following another forum and it appears that the first 2 NH90's are due into Ohakea tomorrow (Tuesday) onboard an AN124. Stuff ran the story on Saturday morning saying that they were arriving & why. The arrival point and method appears to have been gleaned from other sources.

Late edit: Just realised that that the bulk of this was posted a couple of days ago so apologies for repeating.

 

[RegR]

You should read the RAN thread if you think that.

Yip, what am I taking from this? Im still not going to rush out and advocate subs for the RNZN just because they provide a detterant, gather intelligence, take up enemy assets etc etc in our great sea war??. They still have had or are having alot of problems that would make them ridiculous for our navy whether that be tecnological, operational or manpower wise and thats before we even get to the economy killing costs involved to fitout, maintain, upgrade and replace.
We cannot keep up with the Jones's and that is just a fact so why drag ourselves down trying.

 

[MrConservative]

Guys. Can we steer the thread back towards the RNZAF. By all means discuss the wider issues we were digressing into on the general NZDF thread since that is what its there for.

Cheers MrC.

 

[ngatimozart]

That's certainly interesting to know. It seems to me that the Kiwis do seem to think that regional security is no concern of theirs, that they can leave the hard capabilities (submarines, fighter aircraft, AWACs, destroyers etc) to us. Considering how dependent New Zealand is on trade, it's astonishing that the maintenance of a credible navy, at the very least, isn't considered a priority.

Alas, they know Australia can't afford not to defend both nations (for reasons of pragmatism as well as honour)

You appear to like dragging out issues that have been well and truly discussed and so like Bonza & ADMk2 have already told you read the previous posts before you start making claims. I see you've had a couple of warnings from the mods. I also note you are on a final warning and what; you've posted 10 times. If I were you I would take the warning very seriously. Secondly, before you go launching in and chucking wild accusations about what NZDF and the RNZAF does and doesn't do or doesn't have, I suggest very strongly that you do some research. At present you are just showing your ignorance.

 

[ngatimozart]

First 2 of NH90s are at Ohakea in crates. Arrived this morning around 0930 aboard an AN124. http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/national/6092118/New-Air-Force-helicopters-arrive

 

[the road runner]

Yip, what am I taking from this? Im still not going to rush out and advocate subs for the RNZN just because they provide a detterant, gather intelligence, take up enemy assets etc etc in our great sea war??. They still have had or are having alot of problems that would make them ridiculous for our navy whether that be tecnological, operational or manpower wise and thats before we even get to the economy killing costs involved to fitout, maintain, upgrade and replace.
We cannot keep up with the Jones's and that is just a fact so why drag ourselves down trying.

I dont think NZ should buy any asset they cannot afford.My point being you think that Collins class is a Multi billion dollar failed equipment.Lucky our allies dont see it that way.Id like to see New Zealand consolidate on what it has.More chopper(NH-90) and transport planes(C-295/C130) and a few maritime patrol aircraft,weather that be re build P-3s or a future MPA.

Regards

 

[Kirkzzy]

First 2 of NH90s are at Ohakea in crates. Arrived this morning around 0930 aboard an AN124. New Air Force helicopters arrive | Stuff.co.nz

Gotta love these comments

"The last thing we needed as a nation while the kids are sick and hospitals are at breaking point us a billion dollars spent on this rubbish , what are we defending against exactly?
"

 

[ngatimozart]

Gotta love these comments

"The last thing we needed as a nation while the kids are sick and hospitals are at breaking point us a billion dollars spent on this rubbish , what are we defending against exactly?
"

Yep and another mongrel complaining about using the AN124 to ship them. Thats why I left the comments I did pointing out why we need them amongst other things buy having NZDF to protect trade routes so these whingers can continue to buy imported TVs, CDs etc. Seems they have too much time on their hands. they should be doing something constructive.

Late addition: There are some real cool official photos of the AN124's arrival at Ohakea and the unloading of the 2 NH90s. the crates were ultra new and designed by Gucci & the NZ media. The helos were transported complete minus main rotors and some other bits. The photos are on another forum that some of us are known to lurk at.

 

[Norm]

NH90 Arrival

Yep and another mongrel complaining about using the AN124 to ship them. Thats why I left the comments I did pointing out why we need them amongst other things buy having NZDF to protect trade routes so these whingers can continue to buy imported TVs, CDs etc. Seems they have too much time on their hands. they should be doing something constructive.

Late addition: There are some real cool official photos of the AN124's arrival at Ohakea and the unloading of the 2 NH90s. the crates were ultra new and designed by Gucci & the NZ media. The helos were transported complete minus main rotors and some other bits. The photos are on another forum that some of us are known to lurk at.

New helicopters arrive at Ohakea | Stuff.co.nz


Good clip showing arrival, Assistant Secretary Defence Kevin McMahon mentions the 9 th attrition Airframe [at 50 secs] never got fully assembled and is already at Ohakea.

 

[aussienscale]

Just as a curiosity, why were the NZ 90's made in France ? and not backed onto the Australian build ? I don't recall seeing anything or any reason why they would not ? And judging by the price in the vid on transport, surely we could have done mates rates to send em over on a C17 ?

Cheers

 

[Sea Toby]

Just as a curiosity, why were the NZ 90's made in France ? and not backed onto the Australian build ? I don't recall seeing anything or any reason why they would not ? And judging by the price in the vid on transport, surely we could have done mates rates to send em over on a C17 ?

Cheers

I'll speculate. Australia was willing to pay more to build in Australia whereas New Zealand was interested in the lowest price.

 

[RegR]

I dont think NZ should buy any asset they cannot afford.My point being you think that Collins class is a Multi billion dollar failed equipment.Lucky our allies dont see it that way.Id like to see New Zealand consolidate on what it has.More chopper(NH-90) and transport planes(C-295/C130) and a few maritime patrol aircraft,weather that be re build P-3s or a future MPA.

Regards

Agreed road runner, but you gotta admit alot of time, money, effort and money have gone into this project and it is not perfect(for billions of taxpayer dollars I would want nothing less), we cannot afford that luxury. If we concentrated on adequate numbers of A400s, CNtypes, MPA/overland surveillance, NH90s etc and did not dilute with capabilities other allies already have(and realistically do not need bar all out war) then we can take that to a operation with more quality behind it and therefore offer more in that area.
Jack of all trades, master of none should be a saying not a fact.

 

[RegR]

I'll speculate. Australia was willing to pay more to build in Australia whereas New Zealand was interested in the lowest price.

Well we seem to be doing ok so far (seasprite hint hint) so will just have to wait and see if our ones work or not for what we pay.

 

[Sea Toby]

Well we seem to be doing ok so far (seasprite hint hint) so will just have to wait and see if our ones work or not for what we pay.

The NH90s will work out fine. Anything that has this price will have its critics pointing out every little gremlin. Oh, for the days of the mid 1980s when a Macintosh computer was able to fit all of its operating software on a 400k floppy disk. Today my little iPod Touch 4 needs more than 400k. Having said how software has bloated, my little iPod Touch 4 is a better gadget.

 

[aussienscale]

Well we seem to be doing ok so far (seasprite hint hint) so will just have to wait and see if our ones work or not for what we pay.

HA HA ! please educate me, do you think the NZ Seasprite is comparable to what AU was/had achieved prior to the program being prematurley canned ? And how are the NZ 90's different to the AU 90's, seems like a pretty ordinary dig ? It was a basic question of "did the timing fit ?" or was there another reason NZ went for the French build ? I would think the AU build would be comparable in price with NZ industry off spin on the project

 

[ngatimozart]

HA HA ! please educate me, do you think the NZ Seasprite is comparable to what AU was/had achieved prior to the program being prematurley canned ? And how are the NZ 90's different to the AU 90's, seems like a pretty ordinary dig ? It was a basic question of "did the timing fit ?" or was there another reason NZ went for the French build ? I would think the AU build would be comparable in price with NZ industry off spin on the project

Well at least we got our Seasprites operational and have had them operational until the MLU point. Now we have to make a decision about whether to keep them & do a MLU or ditch them and go with something else.

 

[RegR]

HA HA ! please educate me, do you think the NZ Seasprite is comparable to what AU was/had achieved prior to the program being prematurley canned ? And how are the NZ 90's different to the AU 90's, seems like a pretty ordinary dig ? It was a basic question of "did the timing fit ?" or was there another reason NZ went for the French build ? I would think the AU build would be comparable in price with NZ industry off spin on the project

Amen to that Ngati, Umm what did AU seasprites acheive exactly? Currently working and did not work cannot be compared. You can have all the bells and whistles you want but if it does not work then all you have is bells and whistles that do not work, looks good on paper but at the end of the day yours are back in bubble wrap and ours are still flying.
Our 90s are different because they are built in France and yours in Aus, ours are grey yours are auscam, ours have cupholders yours have a fridge, we got Dave Dobbyn in the stereo you have AC/DC, subtle but distinct differences. At least one thing about getting ours later is hopefully lessons learnt and any issues found can be better rectified or are at least known.........hopefully.