Indonesian Aero News

[Sandhi Yudha]

Thanks for posting!
The funding for the KF-X project will it be also taken from this budget?

 

[Ananda]

Thanks for posting!
The funding for the KF-X project will it be also taken from this budget?

From my understanding, this budget is for period up to 2014 (or up to end of SBY era). So KF-X projects seems will be financed through another budget. Besides KF-X still in very early stages, there's so many factors that can contribute to changes in development.

But this budget show increasing confidences in Administrations for financing bigger projects for Defense through domestic sources.

 

[koxinga]

From Republika.com : Menhan: AS Tetap Hibahkan Satu Skuadron F-16

US Congress already approved transferred of 30 surplus F-16 to Indonesia.

I have been searching the US Congress/House of Reps/Senate websites and I have been unable to find any reference to such a sale or transfer. Not a peep even from DSCA or under EDA.

Do you have a non-Indonesian source for it?

 

[Ananda]

I have been searching the US Congress/House of Reps/Senate websites and I have been unable to find any reference to such a sale or transfer. Not a peep even from DSCA or under EDA.

Do you have a non-Indonesian source for it?

Actually after reading and posting this news, I also looking for US Congress websites trying to find US Congressional Notification dated August 16th 2011 that's supposed mentioning authorization of 24 ex USAF F-16 (plus 6 F-16 as spares). Just like you I haven't found one.

So far only Indonesian sources that mentioning this transferred. So I treat this news as Wait and See

 

[koxinga]

I don't want to sound like a wet blanket but some of the news coming out of Indonesia must be taken with a grain of salt.

The proposal Anoa deal with Malaysia for example; there are unconfirmed reports from Malaysia that the deal may not proceed. At least no decision had been made yet.

The same thing happened with the Philippines, when the Defence Minister 'announced' that Philippines had signed a contract for 2 LPDs.

I believe the Minister is actively trying to promote domestic products but such announcements can be quite misleading.

 

[Ananda]

I don't want to sound like a wet blanket but some of the news coming out of Indonesia must be taken with a grain of salt.

The proposal Anoa deal with Malaysia for example; there are unconfirmed reports from Malaysia that the deal may not proceed. At least no decision had been made yet.

The same thing happened with the Philippines, when the Defence Minister 'announced' that Philippines had signed a contract for 2 LPDs.

I believe the Minister is actively trying to promote domestic products but such announcements can be quite misleading.

Agree on the Anoa deal and suposedly Makasar deal with Philipines. that's why I don't make a fuss on those two deal. Not until I see the deal being confirmed with true contract. Besides even the PT. Pal sources so far has not confirmed they have a sign deal with the Philipines.

However the F-16 transfered also being confirmed by the Air Force chief. Usually he's more reliable than the minister . Still without a confirmation from US sources, it's still wait and see.

 

[Ananda]

Grob G120 win Indonesia's Elementary Trainers deal.

From Flight Global:Indonesian win launches Grob's G120TP

Grob Aircraft has secured a launch customer for its G120TP design, with Indonesia's air force to operate the type as an elementary and basic trainer.

Announcing its selection on 19 September, Grob said the turboprop-powered G120TP had been selected "in the face of fierce competition from the Finmeccanica [Alenia Aermacchi] SF-260TP and the Pacific Aerospace CT-4".

Deliveries will commence in 2012, with the company also providing a computer-based ground training system, mission briefing and debriefing equipment, embedded cockpit simulation and a full package of maintenance support. The deal is likely to be for around 18 aircraft, with Grob expecting a contract signature to occur within the next few weeks.

The deal already predicted sometime ago when Air force Chief commented Grob's airplane provide the best value of money and technological base for 21st century elementary trainers. Although Aermachchi besides for new deal also offer separate deal to rejuvenated ex SAF SF-260 in TNI-AU inventory. Thus will provide bigger fleet for Elementary trainers.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

From Flight Global:Indonesian win launches Grob's G120TP



The deal already predicted sometime ago when Air force Chief commented Grob's airplane provide the best value of money and technological base for 21st century elementary trainers. Although Aermachchi besides for new deal also offer separate deal to rejuvenated ex SAF SF-260 in TNI-AU inventory. Thus will provide bigger fleet for Elementary trainers.

So TNI-AU will use a mix of SME MD3-160, AS202, SF-260 and G120TP planes as elementary trainers..... what a logistic nightmare....

 

[Ananda]

So TNI-AU will use a mix of SME MD3-160, AS202, SF-260 and G120TP planes as elementary trainers..... what a logistic nightmare....

The Air Force only used AS202 as elementary trainer officially while SF-260 being used as TNI-AU HQ staff flight refreshment (to give HQ staff keeping their flying hours capability). that's why SF-260 stationed in halim Air base. Although rumours say only few in flying condition (perhaps to save as much as airframe).

G120 TP will be AS202 replacement, while if I'm not mistaken SME MD3 belong to the Navy air armed as their trainers.

 

[koxinga]

Jarkarta Globe 21 Sept 2011

The House of Representatives said on Wednesday that they had not yet given approval to a US government plan to grant the Indonesian Military used F-16 fighter jets.

Although the US Congress had given its approval for the plan, Tubagus Hasanuddin, an Indonesian lawmaker, said that the Indonesian government should hold further talks among lawmakers to discuss the details.

“We cannot give any decision now. We must postpone this issue until some lawmakers meet in near times for intensified talks on the issue,” said Tubagus, who also serves as deputy chairman of House Commission I, overseeing defense and foreign affairs.

The commission met with Defense Ministry officials on Wednesday.

Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro said the ministry and the military had agreed to receive the fighter jets, and were working on getting approval from the House.

Purnomo said the ministry would need to get funding approved to refurbish the aging aircraft.

“We need to fix the avionics systems and weaponry systems. We are struggling to get approval from the House to get the budget for that,” Purnomo said.

Separately, the Indonesian Air Force said on Wednesday that the offer from the United States would give a boost to Indonesia’s air power.

Air Chief Marshall Imam Sufaat said that if the US grant was accepted, the government would only need to spend about $430 million for delivery and repairs and upgrades to the jets.

“So the approval from the government and the House is really important for us because we do need more defense equipment,” Imam said.

But some lawmakers on Commission I voiced concern over the offer.

“We don’t want this plan to become a new start of our country’s dependency on the US government and their military products,” said Golkar Party lawmaker Enggartiasto Lukito.

 

[koxinga]

The translator says TNI-AU is given two choices, buy 6 new F-16 Block 52 or take up the USAF offer of 24 + 6 ex ANG birds but upgrade to Block 52 and have it done locally.

It seems to point to a gap between what TNI intends to do and what the Government wants. The ex ANG birds would allow them to replace the F5s and standardize their fleet around the F16s.

JAKARTA - Komisi I DPR memberi dua opsi kepada pemerintah terkait pengadaan pesawat tempur jenis F-16 dari Amerika Serikat (AS). Pertama, pemerintah diminta membeli enam pesawat tempur F-16 Block 52 yang merupakan pesawat jenis baru untuk menampilkan efek getar dan daya tangkal yang cukup. Kedua, menerima hibah dengan syarat bisa di-up grade dengan melibatkan BUMN industri pertahanan.

"Untuk yang pilihan pertama, kan anggarannya sudah dialokasikan sebesar 430 juta dollar AS, tinggal beli saja," kata anggota Komisi I DPR Tjahjo Kumolo ketika dihubungi di Jakarta, Minggu (25/9). Pesawat baru itu juga memungkinkan untuk mengganti pesawat F-16 lama yang saat ini dimiliki Indonesia.

Untuk opsi kedua, kalau pemerintah memilih mengambil 24 pesawat F-16 Block 24 hasil hibah dari Amerika, ada dua syarat utama yang diajukan. Pertama, pesawat tersebut harus bisa di-up grade menjadi Block 52 agar sesuai dengan rencana strategis tentang minimum essential force (MEF).

Syarat kedua, up grade harus dilakukan di Indonesia dan melibatkan BUMN industri pertahanan sesuai dengan program nasional yang bertujuan mewujudkan kemandirian sistem pertahanan Indonesia. "Kemandirian ini sesuai dengan UU Industri Pertahanan yang sedang kita buat," katanya.

Kalau dua syarat itu tak bisa dipenuhi, Tjahjo akan tegas menolak rencana hibah tersebut. Sebaliknya, DPR akan tetap mendorong pemerintah membeli enam pesawat F-16 baru yang sebelumnya memang sudah dianggarkan.

Kalaupun ada opsi lain, Tjahjo mengatakan, Indonesia sebaiknya membeli pesawat tempur jenis Sukhoi buatan Rusia sebanyak satu skuadron atau 16 pesawat. Harganya hanya 800 juta dollar AS untuk satu skuadron. "Pemerintah kan masih punya plafon pinjaman State Credit dari Rusia sebesar 1,1 miliar dollar AS. Langsung bisa terbeli," ujarnya.

Sementara itu, Kepala Dinas Penerangan TNI Angkatan Udara Azman Yunus mengatakan pihaknya menerima hibah 24 pesawat F-16 Block 24 jelas lebih menguntungkan. Selain secara kuantitas banyak, pesawat tersebut bisa di-up grade ke Block 32 dengan harga yang hampir sama dengan membeli enam pesawat F-16 Block 52.

Keuntungan lain, tambah dia, Indonesia juga akan mendapatkan enam pesawat sebagai suku cadangnya. Kondisinya jelas masih bagus, apalagi setelah nanti diadakan peningkatan kemampuan. Hibah pun memungkinkan Indonesia melakukan transfer teknologi dengan Amerika pada saat proses up grade.

Sebelumnya, Kepala Staf Angkatan Udara Marsekal Imam Sufaat mengatakan sulit melakukan up grade pesawat di Indonesia. Selain harus membawa ke-24 pesawat itu ke Indonesia, tentu biayanya sangat mahal. Kemampuan BUMN industri pertahanan pun masih meragukan. "Industri pertahanan kita belum memiliki peralatan lengkap untuk bisa meretrofit F-16," katanya.

Untuk membawa pesawat-pesawat itu ke Indonesia, sebenarnya ada dua kemungkinan, yakni membawanya memakai kapal atau meminta pilot Amerika untuk menerbangkannya ke Indonesia. "Kalau diangkut menggunakan kapal, biayanya akan sangat besar. Hampir sama dengan anggaran meretrofit pesawat itu. Kalaupun diterbangkan, pilot Amerika pasti tidak berani," katanya.

 

[Media Buff]

Kfx

What happened to the KFX program with South Korea? Is it still moving forward?

Do you want the Indonesian air force to buy fighters, or be given fighters?

Your answer to the above question will affect my answer.

 

[Media Buff]

Efficiencies

After the export restrictions imposed by the US, it is clear that Indonesia does not want to double down on any one platform for any mission. But, how much will this cost them in the long-run. Efficiencies matter in business - one must assume they matter in militaries as well.

So TNI-AU will use a mix of SME MD3-160, AS202, SF-260 and G120TP planes as elementary trainers..... what a logistic nightmare....

 

[Ananda]

The translator says TNI-AU is given two choices, buy 6 new F-16 Block 52 or take up the USAF offer of 24 + 6 ex ANG birds but upgrade to Block 52 and have it done locally.

It seems to point to a gap between what TNI intends to do and what the Government wants. The ex ANG birds would allow them to replace the F5s and standardize their fleet around the F16s.

What Government wants is the same with what the Air Force wants. PThis's more to what those, 'STUPID' politician in parlements agenda. This 'democracy' thingy in Indonesia after the fall of Soeharto empowered the politician in parlements with 'disruptive' power agenda on whatever the government do just so the deal can be made.

This's nothing more on the effort from those 'cockroches' to extort some political deal from government and military. Everyone knows that given the money available getting those ex ANG F-16 is more preverable than buying new F-16 in the term of quantity and availability.

Those 'idiots just want to be seen as a 'power to be reckon with. It will be decided 'hopefully' as soon as some back stage political deal can be agreed.

 

[koxinga]

I do hope the right choice is made. The proposal to upgrade the ex-ANG F16As Blk 15 to Blk 52 and to do it locally is obviously a non-starter.

 

[Ananda]

C-295 seems set to Join TNI-AU Inventory.

From Detik.com with Google translate:

Jakarta - PT Dirgantara Indonesia (DI) re-established cooperation with the aircraft manufacturer Airbus SAS One form of such cooperation in the production of aircraft orders that the Air Force Airbus Military's CN 295.

"We are doing more work with Airbus because it's actually been since our first collaboration since the crisis of 1998 had been halted," said Director of Aerospace Indonesia Budi Santoso when met at the Office of the Minister of Economy, Lapangan Banteng, Jakarta, Monday (03/10/2011) .

Described Budi, such cooperation in terms of production aircraft parts, airplane reservations technology to license for export out. As for the special order form in which the Air Force CN-235 will also be done by using the license Aerospace Airbus.

"Air Force ordered nine Fokker 27 aircraft replacement CN 295 ie a special license from Airbus. So we will manufacture the aircraft," he explained.

When the Airbus sources and DI/IAe seems agree with DI to be involved with C-295 project, then it's very likely the replacement for Fokker 27 within TNI-AU inventory will fall to C-295. Some of the Air Force brass still like C-27 more (due to more cavernous cargo loading), but politically no Administration in Indonesia right now willing to give contract to Lockheed/Alenia considering DI already secured join production contract for C-295 with Airbus Military.

With DI already handle C-212, CN-235, then C-295 agreement is just another logical step for DI in their Production portfolio.

 

[koxinga]

Well, still up in the air, literally.

A side question though, does TNI use AHP as its evaluation criteria? I am trained to use this for defense procurements. The technical comparison (e.g benefits) will be compared against the cost for the final outcome, especially in a double envelope tender.


[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytic_Hierarchy_Process"]Analytic Hierarchy Process - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Jakarta, Kompas - Terkait dengan penggantian pesawat angkut Fokker 27, TNI Angkatan Udara telah mencoba dua macam pesawat. Hingga saat ini, C-27 Spartan dianggap lebih unggul dibandingkan dengan Casa 295.

”Walau begitu, keputusan akhir tetap di Kementerian Pertahanan karena ada unsur PT Dirgantara Indonesia (DI),” kata Kepala Dinas Penerangan TNI AU Marsekal Pertama Azman Yunus dalam kunjungan ke harian Kompas, Jumat (21/10).

Dia mengharapkan PT DI bisa memenuhi kebutuhan operasi dari TNI AU. Pesawat angkut yang nanti dibeli pemerintah juga diharapkan bisa menangani kebutuhan angkut lebih daripada Fokker 27.

Azman memaparkan, ada dua opsi yang dievaluasi TNI AU berkaitan dengan penggantian Fokker 27 yang akan segera habis masa pakainya. Opsi itu adalah C-27 buatan Spartan dari Italia dan C-295 dari Airbus Military.

Menurut penelusuran Kompas, C-27 dengan daya angkut 10 ton bisa menempuh jarak 1.000 mil dengan kecepatan 300 km per jam. Adapun C-295 memiliki daya angkut 6 ton dengan jarak tempuh 1.000 mil dengan kecepatan 200 km per jam. Harga C-27 mencapai 42 juta dollar AS, sedangkan harga C-295 sebesar 31 juta dollar AS.

Baru-baru ini, Airbus Military bekerja sama dengan PT DI untuk perakitan C-295 dan pemasaran di kawasan Asia Pasifik. Dirut PT DI Budi Santoso mengatakan, dari rencana perakitan sembilan pesawat C-295, tiga akan dikerjakan di Spanyol, tiga di Indonesia, dan tiga lagi ditentukan kemudian. ”Waktu delivery-nya 2014,” kata Budi.

Sementara itu, sejumlah pesawat tempur dan persenjataan baru TNI AU akan mulai tiba awal tahun 2012. Satu skuadron pesawat tempur Super Tucano yang terdiri atas 16 pesawat akan datang pada Maret 2012 sebagai pengganti OV-10 Bronco yang di antaranya untuk mengawal perbatasan.

Pesawat tempur lain yang didatangkan adalah 24 pesawat tempur F-16 Fighting Falcon varian A/B yang akan ditingkatkan kemampuannya. (ong/edn)

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Well, still up in the air, literally.

A side question though, does TNI use AHP as its evaluation criteria? I am trained to use this for defense procurements. The technical comparison (e.g benefits) will be compared against the cost for the final outcome, especially in a double envelope tender.


Analytic Hierarchy Process - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It will be quite stupid if we choose for the C27, although it has a higher cargo capacity. Not only it is more expensive in acquisition than the C295, but also in maintenance and logistic. The C295 use a lot components from the CN235, besides that ofcourse, the C295 will be assembled in Indonesia.

 

[koxinga]

It will be quite stupid if we choose for the C27, although it has a higher cargo capacity. Not only it is more expensive in acquisition than the C295, but also in maintenance and logistic. The C295 use a lot components from the CN235, besides that ofcourse, the C295 will be assembled in Indonesia.

It really depends on the requirements and the package being offered. It is not as straightforward as the numbers suggest.

The Australians are facing the same dilemma with the C27J and the C295 in contention and yes, the C27J has a higher acquisition cost but is apparently favoured by RAAF.

 

[ADMk2]

It really depends on the requirements and the package being offered. It is not as straightforward as the numbers suggest.

The Australians are facing the same dilemma with the C27J and the C295 in contention and yes, the C27J has a higher acquisition cost but is apparently favoured by RAAF.

RAAF mainly seems to prefer the C-27J because of it's engine, cockpit and cargo pallet compatability with our existing C-130J-30's.

Plus there is the USA provided FMS option to acquire C-27J which offers a whole range of benefits as opposed to a direct commercial sale with Alenia, included but not limited to US spec communication equipment, data-links and electronic warfare self-protection systems.

At a basic range/payload level, I think RAAF doesn't really have a preference as both platforms meet the basic capability requirements.