Osama Bin Laden dead

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furymonkey

New Member
T.C.P da Devil said:
Correct me if i am wrong here but in Bangladesh anything within a few km radius of our largest mily academy is within a tightly guarded mily district and I suppose the same thing is true for Pakistan, so if the the most wanted criminal in the world was within this area then wouldn't he get caught, by the heavy presence of mily intelligence within that particular area.
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A tightly guarded district doesn't mean anything. Do they profile everyone who lives in the area to see they are the terrorists? Do they bust down their doors to check whoever living in the house is what it appeared to be? It's not like Osama take his dog for a walk outside everyday...

As many reports pointed out, the compound only started to look suspicious when they found the place through their suspect (the courier). As far as locals concerns, it's just another rich family living there.

They don't simply waste intelligent resources at such area where there is no conflict, if they wanted the place to be more secured they will just post more guards.

So I fail to see the link between the two.

Edit: Just making it clear, i'm not saying ISI knew, or doesn't, that Osama is living there. I'm just pointing out a military academy being a mile away does not automatically meant they would know.
 
T

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
furymonkey said:
A tightly guarded district doesn't mean anything. Do they profile everyone who lives in the area to see they are the terrorists? Do they bust down their doors to check whoever living in the house is what it appeared to be? It's not like Osama take his dog for a walk outside everyday...

As many reports pointed out, the compound only started to look suspicious when they found the place through their suspect (the courier). As far as locals concerns, it's just another rich family living there.

They don't simply waste intelligent resources at such area where there is no conflict, if they wanted the place to be more secured they will just post more guards.

So I fail to see the link between the two.

Edit: Just making it clear, i'm not saying ISI knew, or doesn't, that Osama is living there. I'm just pointing out a military academy being a mile away does not automatically meant they would know.
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Wait, no matter how common houses with huge walls are shouldn't they attract at least a bit of attantion from the intelligence if they are less than a km from the academy,

I mean to me a Huge guarded compound with no phone links near a mily academy seems like a security hazard that needs to be checked.
 
StevoJH

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
T.C.P da Devil said:
Wait, no matter how common houses with huge walls are shouldn't they attract at least a bit of attantion from the intelligence if they are less than a km from the academy,

I mean to me a Huge guarded compound with no phone links near a mily academy seems like a security hazard that needs to be checked.
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Why should they? They had no reason to be suspicious, and because of that they had no reason to check if there were active phone or satellite links.

And even if they did, it could just be some wealthy person who wants their privacy away from Islamabad. Nothing illegal about that. Plus, it depends what powers ISI (or whoever you have to blame) have in certain areas. Remember, at the end of the day they are part of the military, in certain situations they would have no authority unless called on by the civilian authorities. aka, the police.
 
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Aussie Digger

Guest
StevoJH said:
Why should they? They had no reason to be suspicious, and because of that they had no reason to check if there were active phone or satellite links.

And even if they did, it could just be some wealthy person who wants their privacy away from Islamabad. Nothing illegal about that. Plus, it depends what powers ISI (or whoever you have to blame) have in certain areas. Remember, at the end of the day they are part of the military, in certain situations they would have no authority unless called on by the civilian authorities. aka, the police.
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Guys on the roof armed with AK-47's and RPG's isn't a threat...
 
F

furymonkey

New Member
Aussie Digger said:
Guys on the roof armed with AK-47's and RPG's isn't a threat...
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I never saw a report mentioned that they station armed personnel on the roof of Osama's mansion. All the articles I've read only mentioned the high walls with barbed wires, which apparently isn't uncommon in Pakistan.

Can you provide me with the link please? Thanks.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
furymonkey said:
I never saw a report mentioned that they station armed personnel on the roof of Osama's mansion. All the articles I've read only mentioned the high walls with barbed wires, which apparently isn't uncommon in Pakistan.

Can you provide me with the link please? Thanks.
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Osama bin Laden killed in fierce firefight | Herald Sun

It was reported quite widely that the assault met with armed resistance from automatic weapons and RPG fire from guards stationed on the roof of the complex.

5 were killed in total apparently with Bin Laden and a female included in that tally.
 
S

STURM

Well-Known Member
T.C.P da Devil said:
Correct me if i am wrong here but in Bangladesh anything within a few km radius of our largest mily academy is within a tightly guarded mily district and I suppose the same thing is true for Pakistan, so if the the most wanted criminal in the world was within this area then wouldn't he get caught, by the heavy presence of mily intelligence within that particular area.
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Not here in Malaysia and there are no military districts. Then again a reason could be that the military occupies a more important place in the overall scheme of things in Pakistan and Bangladesh than it does in Malaysia or in other countries.

Aussie Digger said:
[5 were killed in total apparently with Bin Laden and a female included in that tally.
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According to reports the 5 killed were OBL, his son, 2 couriers and a female who was used as a shield.
 
T

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
StevoJH said:
W. Remember, at the end of the day they are part of the military, in certain situations they would have no authority unless called on by the civilian authorities. aka, the police.
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In our subcontinent, the mily is like the supreme power, whether its a democratic govt or not and in a mily district they are like the only authority.
 
F

furymonkey

New Member
Aussie Digger said:
Osama bin Laden killed in fierce firefight | Herald Sun

It was reported quite widely that the assault met with armed resistance from automatic weapons and RPG fire from guards stationed on the roof of the complex.

5 were killed in total apparently with Bin Laden and a female included in that tally.
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Yes but the article didn't mention anything about the constant personnel presence on the roof with weapons. The US surveillance reports also only mentioned the unusual amount of security in the mansion, such as the double gate, high walls, and privacy wall, but never explicitly point out that they spotted men with weapons.

As far as we know, helicopters noise might be the reason they reached for their weapons. If this is the case, then as pointed out by the person you quoted, it wouldn't be so suspicious.
 
Twinblade

Twinblade

Member
STURM said:
Not here in Malaysia and there are no military districts. Then again a reason could be that the military occupies a more important place in the overall scheme of things in Pakistan and Bangladesh than it does in Malaysia or in other countries.



According to reports the 5 killed were OBL, his son, 2 couriers and a female who was used as a shield.
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If there is any major military base/cantonment/academy, it often spawns its own local economy esp. if the location is a bit off the city center. Several shops and supply stores pop up around the area. There is also a lot of civilian staff that prefers to live around the area. Shopkeepers (especially grocers) and local businesses tend to have a fair idea about new residents and also interact with lots of people associated with the military.

Now, militants in south asia "love" to attack military bases (you can google successful and foiled attacks on military bases in India and Pakistan) as it ensures minimum civilian casualties and demoralizes the security forces. Therefore military bases and government buildings are the first ones to be cordoned off in case of elevated terrorist threat levels. Military police/Base security often have meetings and security drills with local police and civilian authorities. To claim that there is no intelligence gathering in surrounding areas is simply absurd. Heck, i worked in the petroleum industry and even our oil installations used to get occasional sketches of suspicious people seen in the area by the local police/ and/or instructions to report any suspicious people seen lurking around. If anyone tells me that the local police does not gather intelligence around such important places in Pakistan, which incidentally has seen a lot of recent attacks on military personnel, my only response would be, "you've got to be kidding me! there is no way in hell i am going to believe that".
 
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furymonkey

New Member
Twinblade said:
If there is any major military base/cantonment/academy, it often spawns its own local economy esp. if the location is a bit off the city center. Several shops and supply stores pop up around the area. There is also a lot of civilian staff that prefers to live around the area. Shopkeepers (especially grocers) and local businesses tend to have a fair idea about new residents and also interact with lots of people associated with the military.

Now, militants in south asia "love" to attack military bases (you can google successful and foiled attacks on military bases in India and Pakistan) as it ensures minimum civilian casualties and demoralizes the security forces. Therefore military bases and government buildings are the first ones to be cordoned off in case of elevated terrorist threat levels. Military police/Base security often have meetings and security drills with local police and civilian authorities. To claim that there is no intelligence gathering in surrounding areas is simply absurd. Heck, i worked in the petroleum industry and even our oil installations used to get occasional sketches of suspicious people seen in the area by the local police/ and/or instructions to report any suspicious people seen lurking around. If anyone tells me that the local police does not gather intelligence around such important places in Pakistan, which incidentally has seen a lot of recent attacks on military personnel, my only response would be, "you've got to be kidding me! there is no way in hell i am going to believe that".
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True, but that doesn't mean they go as far as busting down everyone's door to see who lives there.

Osama sure is living in secrecy, but maybe rest of his household has plenty of interaction with the locals that they just act like regular folks. Besides, they might have lived there for quite a few years already, there probably isn't anything that is "supscious" in their neighbours's eye.

People have already pointed out, just how much do you know about your neighbours? Do you even know what your neighbours do in their spare time, their incomes, their mail deliveries? Most people wouldn't even have a clue, but all of suddenly everyone know the tail signs to look out for someone who live half way across the world?

Edit: You also have to give him credits for being so evasive for so many years without disconnecting with the outside world completely. So he isn't an average militian group that got caught before their attacks. But I am glad that he was caught.
 
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M

MastanKhan

New Member
Hi,

$25 million is a huge sum of money---somebody in the isi would have coughed out that information---sooner or later---.

The problem here is the we don't want to accept that OBL bested the intel agencies of all the countries of the world for close to 6 plus years since that compound was built.

Everybody assumed that he would be moving with a big entourage---many a body guards ready to lay down their lives for him and one of them would take him out before the final countdown---.

We all were living our make believe scenarios as where he would be and living under what conditions----and now those beliefs have been shattered and smacked us right in our faces---we are now trying to find and lay blame on everyone that we can find to who did what and who didnot.

Even al qaeda didnot know where OBL was---were there al qaeda sympathizers in abbotabad----or some aq operatives in that city-----possibly----if they heard the fire fight and known that OBL was under attack----wouldn't they come runningh to jump into the fire fight----I mean to say Al qaeda soldiers are not chicken hearted---they are known to take the fight to the next level---.

But in the 40 minute fire fight----non showed up from the neighbourhood clearly meant that OBL had us all fooled----.

The news states that the BALCONY at the upper level had wall about 7 foot high----pakistani are very familiar with this kind of structures----high boundary walls----with barbed wires----balconies with walls----it was not out of the ordinary.

It was not that OBL was taking the evening walk with his dog on a leash----or standing on the balcony and waving to the people going by.

Trash burning is nothing new---it used to be a common practise in pakistan----maybe over the years it has changed----but the american news media picks it up and sensationalizes it----in smaller towns where there was no trash pickup, people burnt the trash----.


For a muiliitary analyst----the problem here is that he is not looking through the proper lense----you are seeing through your western looking glass---for that reason---the picture that you are looking at is distorted.

Change the lens----look it through pakistani perspective----wear pakistani eye glasses and you won't see anything different.

Even the u s didnot see it as a threat for many a years that it had known----.

But there is one thing for sure---even in his death OBL Has succeeded in driving a wedge into he relation between the U S and pakistan----so---if he succeeds and the u s and pak move away from each other----OBL has succeeded.
 
R

ruutik

New Member
Some sources in Internet says: "...in 2007 Benazir Bhutto blabed that OBL was died of hepatocirrhosis in 2001..."

What do you think about this, guys?
:unknown
 
M

My2Cents

Active Member
Aussie Digger said:
Guys on the roof armed with AK-47's and RPG's isn't a threat...
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Probably never displayed the RPG's, no point in it really. Kept them in a steel locker until needed, ready for use in 10-20 seconds. Like when SEALs start pouring out of black helicopters.

As for the AK-47's . . . what is standard armament for personnel body guards in that part of Pakistan? If socially acceptable, everyone would have just assumed the rich guy was smart to hire compentent personnel, if not they probably also had those in the locker and displayed only binoculars, walkie-talkies, and maybe video cameras.

These guys have been hiding for years, they are not going to make dumb mistakes. Even if the ISI and Pakistani military were protecting them, it only takes one local with a cell phone to rat OBL out for the reward money.
 
T

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
furymonkey said:
True, but that doesn't mean they go as far as busting down everyone's door to see who lives there.

Osama sure is living in secrecy, but maybe rest of his household has plenty of interaction with the locals that they just act like regular folks. Besides, they might have lived there for quite a few years already, there probably isn't anything that is "supscious" in their neighbours's eye.

People have already pointed out, just how much do you know about your neighbours? Do you even know what your neighbours do in their spare time, their incomes, their mail deliveries? Most people wouldn't even have a clue, but all of suddenly everyone know the tail signs to look out for someone who live half way across the world?

Edit: You also have to give him credits for being so evasive for so many years without disconnecting with the outside world completely. So he isn't an average militian group that got caught before their attacks. But I am glad that he was caught.
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No Fury Monkey Twin Blade is right, you do not now about the security measures around mily districts in our sub continent.

I am pretty sure that the mily keeps tabs on all houses and other institutions with in a few km radius of its bases and academys and this area depends on the size of the base, so since this was Pakistan's most largest mily academy to say that ISI had no idea of OBL's location there is like saying you never noticed a huge groaning rhino in your backyard.

Especially since we are talking about a fortress like super expensive compound with no connections to the outside world(ie telephone lines)
 
F

furymonkey

New Member
T.C.P da Devil said:
No Fury Monkey Twin Blade is right, you do not now about the security measures around mily districts in our sub continent.

I am pretty sure that the mily keeps tabs on all houses and other institutions with in a few km radius of its bases and academys and this area depends on the size of the base, so since this was Pakistan's most largest mily academy to say that ISI had no idea of OBL's location there is like saying you never noticed a huge groaning rhino in your backyard.

Especially since we are talking about a fortress like super expensive compound with no connections to the outside world(ie telephone lines)
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Yes, you are right that I do not know much about this subject. But perhaps you can enlighten me how would they achieve on keeping tabs on every house in the area, while gather sufficient evidences about the people living in there.

Multiple articles already mentioned that US has conducted surveillance on their own for a period of time, yet they didn't have solid evidence that OBL was living there. You'd think any method that ISI uses to find who really lives in that mansion, CIA would know about it too.
 
T

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
furymonkey said:
Yes, you are right that I do not know much about this subject. But perhaps you can enlighten me how would they achieve on keeping tabs on every house in the area, while gather sufficient evidences about the people living in there.

Multiple articles already mentioned that US has conducted surveillance on their own for a period of time, yet they didn't have solid evidence that OBL was living there. You'd think any method that ISI uses to find who really lives in that mansion, CIA would know about it too.
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Well I am not in the intelligence so I cannot say the exact methods, but I do know that they check who owns all the houses and do they live there or not, do they rent it out and to whom, they send regular inspectors to the area to check things out.

Like I said, I am not in the ISI or any other intelligence orgainzations so i cannot say for sure. Also We do not have any multi million dollar armoured compounds any where near mily installations in BD, so I cannot really give you any in depth info here, but if we did, I am pretty sure the DGFI would make regular visits to the place to keep up security.
 
t68

t68

Well-Known Member
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