PAK-FA / T-50: Russian 5th Generation Fighter

Status
Not open for further replies.
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
They moved it again? Do you have a source? Last I heard it's still due to fly January. I.e. we have a coupe of weeks to go, if that.
 
W

Wall83

Member
Spetsznaz said:
The weird this is that Sukhoi and the Russian Military is always delaying the public appearance of this PAK FA. Its was supposed to fly in the beginning of 2010 or late 2009 but now they moved the date again:mad:
Click to expand...
Its been delayed since 2007, but now it looks like it will relly happend. I would think in january or as late as february.
 
N

nevidimka

New Member
They said beginning of 2010. WHo said January? I think we still have a couple of months. PLus if the plane has already made taxi runs, I'm sure its already capable of doing its 1st test flight.
Perhaps they are going through checks just to make sure that everything goes well for the most anticipated plane of this cenury. The 1st and real opponent to the F 22, which the whole world would be looking at in great interest.
Perhaps they think they can make the flight with the 117S engine which is almost complete?
 
Haavarla

Haavarla

Active Member
nevidimka said:
They said beginning of 2010. WHo said January? I think we still have a couple of months. PLus if the plane has already made taxi runs, I'm sure its already capable of doing its 1st test flight.
Perhaps they are going through checks just to make sure that everything goes well for the most anticipated plane of this cenury. The 1st and real opponent to the F 22, which the whole world would be looking at in great interest.
Perhaps they think they can make the flight with the 117S engine which is almost complete?
Click to expand...

This is somewhat old news, but regarding the 117S engine its been operational since late 2008, early 2009:

NPO” Saturn completed the endurance tests for Experimental engine 117S Engine on 30th January, 2008. As per NPO “Saturn” project engineer Yevgeny Marchukova, “from engines point of view, there are no obstacles whatever for the beginning of the flight tests of the first Su-35. All obligations before the customer are executed “.

For guaranteeing the service life of 100 hours, the engine bench tests was composed of 200 hours (with the fulfillment of 100 cycles of tests, 6000 cycles of the turning of rotary nozzle), including 16 hours of hot tests with the imitation of high-speed regimes.

The 117S engine is a major upgrade of the AL-31F and has a thrust of 14.5 tonnes, which exceeds the figures of the basic engine by 2 tonnes. It mounts the fan with a 3 % larger diameter (932 mm over 905 mm), advanced high- and low-pressure turbines and all-new digital control system. A provision has been made for using the thrust vector control nozzle similar to that of the AL-31FP. The upgrade has resulted in thrust hiking by 16 % to 14,500 kgf (kN) in afterburner mode and totaling 8,800 kg in the maximal non-after burning mode. Compared to the current AL-31F, the new engine’s service life will increase by 2–2.7 times, with the time between overhauls increasing from 500 hours to 1,000 hours, time before first overhaul standing at 1,500 hours and assigned life spiking from 1,500 hours to 4,000 hours.

There are five engines in the testing batch. 117S-01 is for special tests in assuring first flight; 117S-02 is for gas dynamic stability and extended tests for assuring first flight; 117S-03 was sent to the flight laboratory where strain gauge measurements of the low pressure chamber under takeoff conditions were recorded; 117S-04 and 117S-05 have been delivered to KnAAPO for the Su-35 flight.

Currently, “NPO” Saturn” and ” UMPO ” (Ufa Engine Production Association) have started to manufacture the final eight engine’s, which will be used to refine the product. Of those, two will be the engine test resource, one – will be for thermobaric chamber in CIAM, the three engine will be delivered at the second aircraft Su-35, one for special tests and one for official tests.

Tests of the first engine of final layout it is planned during February 2008 and delivery of the engines for the second airplane are planned for March – April 2008.


Thanks
 
Last edited:
S

Spetsznaz

New Member
I think Russia is 'super checking it' They don't want the PAK FA to be put into the public and have the same reaction to it like the F-22 did that it is very vulnerable:confused:
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I suspect it will be a hugely publicized ceremony. Possibly with the presence of international delegations. That does take some time to finalize. Or there may be unforseen last minute difficulties.
 
S

Spetsznaz

New Member
Feanor said:
I suspect it will be a hugely publicized ceremony. Possibly with the presence of international delegations. That does take some time to finalize. Or there may be unforseen last minute difficulties.
Click to expand...
That is possible, you have to remember that first impressions are everything
 
N

nevidimka

New Member
Thanks for the article Havaarla. I completely forgot that the SU 35 is being tested with the 117S engines. BUt dfew things to check, the TBO doesnt look impressive at all. ISnt it way below the western engines, like just 50% of it western engine TBO?

Also with a larger diameter, wouldnt the engine be bigger to fit into the PAK FA when earlier reports said that the plane was to be smaller and logically have smaller diameter engines to the 1 powering the sukhois?
 
Haavarla

Haavarla

Active Member
nevidimka said:
Thanks for the article Havaarla. I completely forgot that the SU 35 is being tested with the 117S engines. BUt dfew things to check, the TBO doesnt look impressive at all. ISnt it way below the western engines, like just 50% of it western engine TBO?

Also with a larger diameter, wouldnt the engine be bigger to fit into the PAK FA when earlier reports said that the plane was to be smaller and logically have smaller diameter engines to the 1 powering the sukhois?
Click to expand...

If one compair the Su-35S 117-S engine against the F-15 F100 200/229 engine; its 4000 vs 6000 TACS or TBO.

Here are some news regarding F100 229:

"We are honored that the ROKAF has selected the Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-229 EEP engine to power their fighter fleet," said Bill Begert, Vice President of Business Development for Pratt & Whitney. "With the F100-PW-229 EEP engine, we have listened to the needs of the customer and are delivering to them a high quality, dependable engine that is safer, more durable and costs significantly less to operate and maintain."

The F100-PW-229 EEP engine is the only fighter engine funded and qualified by the U.S. Air Force to 6,000 cycle capability and is the latest evolution of the F100 family of fighter aircraft engines. The F100-PW-229 EEP engine increases the engine depot inspection interval from seven years to 10 years and provides up to a 30 percent life cycle cost reduction over the life the engine. The EEP will also offer significant safety benefits, with a predicted 25 percent reduction in the in-flight shutdown rate."

"The F100-PW-229 EEP engine offers customers a lower total cost of ownership and an outstanding record of safety. Incorporating the latest technologies, this propulsion system provides advanced, dependable power for F-15 and F-16 fighter aircraft around the world"

"The F100-PW-229 EEP engine offers the Pakistani Air Force a lower total cost of ownership and an outstanding record of safety. The EEP is the latest evolution of the F100 family of fighter aircraft engines. The EEP configuration will aid the Pakistani Air Force in reducing the life cycle cost associated with scheduled engine maintenance by up to 30 percent through extending the depot inspection interval from 4300 to 6000 TACs. The EEP engine builds on the excellent safety record of the F100-PW-229 and incorporates the latest technologies for today's F-15 and F-16 fighter aircraft around the world."



The different is not that signifficant and i would not use statments as not impressive..
The AL-31 series has always produced more thrust in wet mode VS the F-100 series..
It could be one of the reasons the TACS are a bit lower..
Its always been a misconception that the AL-31F series are crap due to lower Tac's, but in reality the AL-31F engine are very reliable engines and have their advantages over the
F100 series engines in some area.

As i understand it the AL-31 engine are also very easy(short time) to replace on the Flanker, and also the turn around service time(getting ready for the next mission).

The AL-31F(117-S) engine could be used on the PAK-FA for years to come, due to great challanges in the Saturn AL-41F engine development.



Thanks
 
Last edited:
S

Spetsznaz

New Member
Haavarla said:
If one compair the 117-S engine against the 229-200 engine; 4000 vs 6000 Tac's or TBO.

Here are some news on the matter:

"We are honored that the ROKAF has selected the Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-229 EEP engine to power their fighter fleet," said Bill Begert, Vice President of Business Development for Pratt & Whitney. "With the F100-PW-229 EEP engine, we have listened to the needs of the customer and are delivering to them a high quality, dependable engine that is safer, more durable and costs significantly less to operate and maintain."

The F100-PW-229 EEP engine is the only fighter engine funded and qualified by the U.S. Air Force to 6,000 cycle capability and is the latest evolution of the F100 family of fighter aircraft engines. The F100-PW-229 EEP engine increases the engine depot inspection interval from seven years to 10 years and provides up to a 30 percent life cycle cost reduction over the life the engine. The EEP will also offer significant safety benefits, with a predicted 25 percent reduction in the in-flight shutdown rate."

"The F100-PW-229 EEP engine offers customers a lower total cost of ownership and an outstanding record of safety. Incorporating the latest technologies, this propulsion system provides advanced, dependable power for F-15 and F-16 fighter aircraft around the world"




The F100-PW-229 EEP engine offers the Pakistani Air Force a lower total cost of ownership and an outstanding record of safety. The EEP is the latest evolution of the F100 family of fighter aircraft engines. The EEP configuration will aid the Pakistani Air Force in reducing the life cycle cost associated with scheduled engine maintenance by up to 30 percent through extending the depot inspection interval from 4300 to 6000 TACs. The EEP engine builds on the excellent safety record of the F100-PW-229 and incorporates the latest technologies for today's F-15 and F-16 fighter aircraft around the world."



The different is not that significant and i would not use statments as not impressive..
The AL-31 series has always produced more thrust in wet[/B ]mode VS the F-100 series..
It could be one of the reasons the Tac's are a bit lower..
Its always been a misconseption that the AL-31F series, are crap due to lower Tac's, but in reality the AL-31F engine are very reliable engines.

As i understand it the AL-31 engine are very easy(short time) to replace on the Flanker, and also the turn around service time(getting ready for the next mission).
Click to expand...


Cant they at least release some photos?
 
S

Spetsznaz

New Member
Feanor said:
Photos of what... the engines?
Click to expand...
No of how the aircraft will look like externally, and how it will look in flight. I am not asking for Classified Specs, all I am asking is for a view of what the aircraft will look like.

But then again that might spoil the big surprise when they release it to the general public:p:.

yayy i made PFC
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
It will be shown when it flies. That makes perfect sense. It's exterior could change, and probably will change between now and 2015.
 
W

windscorpion

New Member
I am sceptical on that name! :)

I find this secretcy quite refreshing, in this modern world of the web and social media when it seems everything is in the public domain its nice to return to the shadowy world of the cold war and secret new Russian weapons :D
 
P

plasmahawk

Member
S

Spetsznaz

New Member
FireFox, that is soooooo cool, I though they would give it like a really bad one like they did to the Su-47, I wonder who decides the reporting name???
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top