F-X deal is back on. Brazil back in action

[the road runner]

Anyone get the feeling that the whole "early award to Rafale" was little more than a stunt, to get a better price/deal from the other entrants?

I sure as hell do...

Politics at its best it seems.

Wonder how Dassult would feel if they lost the deal,to SAAB or Boeing after being promised the contract by Lula.Seems like it could happen,seems like anything could happen.

 

[Salty Dog]

I'm with you on that one mate...particularly the quote in an article in Brazzil Mag that had Lula stating "Soon I will be getting these fighter jets for free".

If the quote wasn't taken WAY out of context, the colour and movement around the Rafale seems to be political BS at its finest...

It`s a shame to see such a an important acquisition program which has been very carefully and professionally run by the FAB meet with this mess. It sure takes away from the credibility of the process and decision making at the very top of the Brazilian government. A good read on the matter:

After Malaise, Government Retreats from Announcement on Fighters

One significant point raised by Jobim is that the choice of the winning offer could not be announced without the approval of the National Defense Council, chaired by Lula and on which sit Jobim, Foreign Minister Amorim, other ministers as well as the Presidents of the Senate and House of Representatives.

 

[harryriedl]

It`s a shame to see such a an important acquisition program which has been very carefully and professionally run by the FAB meet with this mess. It sure takes away from the credibility of the process and decision making at the very top of the Brazilian government. A good read on the matter:

After Malaise, Government Retreats from Announcement on Fighters

politics seems to be a problem for the Rafale
They seems to be having a repeat of its Morocco fighter program with the disconnect between French Gov, Sarko and and Dassault creating a conflict in price and promise I.E TOT it seems the desperate urge to sell is doing the Raf a great disservice.

 

[B3LA]

Anyone get the feeling that the whole "early award to Rafale" was little more than a stunt, to get a better price/deal from the other entrants?

I sure as hell do...

...And it is working too...
Latest news is that the Swedish secretary of state Håkan Jevrell is in Brazil with a
new package where one of the sale arguments are " Buy two for the price of one".

Can't link directly to the source as it is a at
TT, Tidningarnas Telegrambyrå
under "Ekonomi" (In Swedish)

 

[karan583]

Can't link directly to the source as it is a at
TT, Tidningarnas Telegrambyrå
under "Ekonomi" (In Swedish)

English source here:

Brazilian Engineers Already Working on the Gripen Fighter Project

"Brazil could obtain two aircraft for the price of one by buying the Gripen,” Swedish deputy defense minister Hakan Jevrell said during a Sept. 17 press conference in Sao Paolo. He added that Saab would allow up to 40 percent of the aircraft to be built in Brazil, and that his government is committed to allowing 100% technology transfer on the program, according to local news reports.

 

[Salty Dog]

F-X2 Update

Earlier, SAAB, Boeing, and Dassault were give until 21 September to submit revised F-X2 proposals to the Brazilian Air Force (FAB).

Companies Have Until September 21 to Submit New Proposal on Fighters

Today (at the request of the competing companies) the deadline date for the new proposals has been extended by the FAB to 02 October.

Projeto F-X2 - Esclarecimentos (in Portuguese)

Further to this the Committee on Science and Technology of the House of Representatives will question representatives of the three companies on their ToT and other details of their offers.

Brazilian Parliamentary Committee Plans Hearings on Fighter Buy

 

[Salty Dog]

"We evaluated the three proposals at the request of the Brazilian Air Force, and we concluded that the offer submitted by the Swedish company Saab will best ensure that Brazil obtains the know-how and the technology to “learn on the job” said Embraer’s Deputy Chief Executive for the defense market, Orlando José Ferreira Neto."

Embraer Favors the Purchase of Swedish Fighters

This makes it tighter race?

The Minister of Defense doesn't seem to think so.

Embraer Will Not Decide Fighter Purchase, Jobim Says

Revised F-X2 offers are due Oct 2nd.

 

[Arion]

Here is some VERY intresting info, strange...

02 Oct 2009

Russian firm says confident on Brazil fighter jet deal



Moscow, Oct 2, 2009 (AFP) -
Russia's state arms export firm voiced optimism on Friday about winning a multi-billion-dollar Brazilian fighter jet tender despite rival bids from French, US and Swedish aerospace companies.

The strength of the Russian offer is that it would allow Su-35 fighter jets to be built in Brazil, fulfilling a key Brazilian demand, said Anatoly Isaikin, head of Rosoboronexport, which holds a monopoly on Russian arms exports.

"Our offer has a broad programme of technology transfer -- a full cycle of work on technical service, repairs, all the way to organising the manufacture of Su-35s in Brazil," Isaikin told the Interfax news agency.

The offer submitted by Rosoboronexport to Brazil's defence ministry earlier this year "has maximum compliance with the Brazilian demands," he said.

A spokesman for Rosoboronexport, Vyacheslav Davydenko, confirmed that the Russian offer would allow Su-35 fighters, developed by Russian aircraft maker Sukhoi, to be built in Brazil.

"We think our plane has many advantages and we have good chances of winning the competition," Davydenko told AFP.

Brazil is seeking to acquire 36 combat aircraft to replace its ageing fleet of 12 French-made Mirage-2000 jets.

The contract is worth an estimated four billion to seven billion dollars, making it one of the biggest defence tenders in the world.

Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, who wants his country to become one of the 21st century's major powers, has insisted that the winner agree to transfer technological knowhow so Brazil can acquire the specialized knowledge to build its own independent defence industry.

France's Dassault, which has put forward its Rafale fighters, has been seen as the frontrunner due to its offer of technology transfer and longstanding military links between France and Brazil.

But it faces competition from US aviation giant Boeing, which has offered Brazil its F/A-18 Super Hornet fighter, and Sweden's Saab, which has been talking up its Gripen NG aircraft.

Meanwhile Russia has been eager to find new export markets for its weapons and military equipment, one of the few areas where Russian manufacturing has enjoyed strong sales abroad in recent years.

Russia has signed billions of dollars' worth of arms contracts with Brazil's neighbour Venezuela, including for the delivery of Sukhoi fighter jets to Caracas.

ao/sjw/hd

https://www.ipotindonesia.com/news.php?page=detail&id=309524

Any words on when the decission will be made?

 

[B3LA]

And I thought only SAAB, Boeing, and Dassault were shortlisted.
Where did Sukhoi come from ?
Did they receive a Wild Card, or what ?

:russia

 

[swerve]

No, they're just stirring. They keep coming out with this stuff. The Brazilians ignore it until someone asks them directly. Then they deny it.

 

[SpudmanWP]

What the heck are they smoking????

 

[gripen39]

...And it is working too...
Latest news is that the Swedish secretary of state Håkan Jevrell is in Brazil with a
new package where one of the sale arguments are " Buy two for the price of one".

I think that this mean that you can get 2 gripen for the same prize as 1 Rafale,right?

some update on Brazilians "new" package

Link: Gripen - The wings of your nation - index

 

[B3LA]

Brazil Spokesman: No Talk Of Jet Purchase On Lula Sweden Visit

Well now...Did anyone believe that ?

Brazil Spokesman: No Talk Of Jet Purchase On Lula Sweden Visit - WSJ.com

In the newsflash on Swedish television, Lula hinted that the huge and fast growing middleclass of Brazil was
now eager to buy modern stoves and refrigerators. As a pure coincidence, these household products are also
produced by Electrolux which is a company that is part of the Wallenberg sphere.

Yes, SAAB is in there too...

Not to give this too much credit, but Lula is obviously putting on a good show to make it look like the contract
hasn't been signed by Dassault yet. Maybe he still can squeeze the price down a little further...

(and yes, I believe that the earlier announcement from Håkan Jevrell only should be archived as a kindly hint
to Brazil so that they take proper notice of the huge price differences between the three competitors ;-) )

 

[B3LA]

Sorry about the snub article : If you google it instead, you'll get the complete writing...

 

[Pat-fr-33]

France, and Dassault are ready to make a big exchange with Brazil so Brazil will produce 30 planes, only 6 or maybe 10 would be produced in France. In exchange, France enter the new cargo airplane of Embraer. It's also a deal to link with the one about the submarines. France seems to be ready to give a lot to Brazil so they will enhance their technology a lot with a big techno transfer on all the programs (including discussions about BPc, fregates...).
I really think the deal with the Rafale will be done.

 

[Arion]

Does anyone know or have any speculations about when the decision will be made?

 

[B3LA]

The winner of the Brazilian F-X deal will be revealed on the Day of the Aviator, 2009-10-23.

In Brazil, Alberto Santos-Dumont is considered to be the inventor of the airplane.
This has traditionally been the official position of the Brazilian government.

Albero finally achieved his dream of flying his 14-Bis on 23 October 1906.
His is an interesting story, watch the documentary !

 

[Arion]

Do you have a source for that? (Not that I dont believe you, but its always nice with a real source!)

Friday will be an interesting day...

 

[karan583]

The winner of the Brazilian F-X deal will be revealed on the Day of the Aviator, 2009-10-23.

This has been the rumored date for some time, but it seems the decision date will slip further.

Air Force Commander, Brigadier Juniti Saito, said yesterday that the technical report of the international competition for the purchase of 36 new fighter will be completed in November.

Google Translate

 

[Salty Dog]

Despite a thorough and lengthy process of choosing the ideal fighter aircraft for F-X2 which IMHO the FAB can be proud of, President Lula has re-affirmed the Rafale as the "political choice".

As previously mentioned, the FAB final recommendation is to be released in November.